Hafnia Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 just read it word for word, it doesnt make nice reading. it highlights the clubs failings quite well, im sure it will make its way to the club one way or another. i dont like the way the blue union have done some things, but its hard for me personally not to agree with their cause. hopefully this will help them, hopefully a few more people will see through the lies of the club, hopefully we will be pulled out of this mess. at least we won on sunday. I think a few on here will find a way of disagreeing with you on that one SteveO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) just read it word for word, it doesnt make nice reading. it highlights the clubs failings quite well, im sure it will make its way to the club one way or another. i dont like the way the blue union have done some things, but its hard for me personally not to agree with their cause. hopefully this will help them, hopefully a few more people will see through the lies of the club, hopefully we will be pulled out of this mess. at least we won on sunday. I think a few on here will find a way of disagreeing with you on that one SteveO. Now we didn't, we lost you fool! Edited October 25, 2011 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Now we didn't, we lost you fool! ive got to say, im confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 ive got to say, im confused! Time travel Steve. TJ is up to something I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 ive got to say, im confused! You said at least we won on Sunday at the end of your post, Haf said some would disagree with you (obviously not meaning that bit) but J decided to take the piss . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 You said at least we won on Sunday at the end of your post, Haf said some would disagree with you (obviously not meaning that bit) but J decided to take the piss . give me some credit mark, i was taking the piss back. im a bit dippy at times, but jeez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Caught red handed....well done Mark. I'm like the E.Nigma of TT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 give me some credit mark, i was taking the piss back. im a bit dippy at times, but jeez! Every little helps . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 You know quite well I was dangling out the old fishing rod after steveO commenting on club lies, failings and finidng it hard not to agree with the BU cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/kickoff/blog/2011-11-09/kelly-everton-have-stagnated-under-bill-kenwright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 http://www.talksport...-bill-kenwright Doesn't exactly come across as though he has all the answers, does he? Why do our fans keep calling us the 4th most successful club as though we're this huge dominating force? We are the 4th team in terms of league titles, but we're 7th in terms of trophies won. 15 trophies in 132 years isn't exactly a regular celebration either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Titles are like gold medals(1 gold medal outranks any amount of silver and bronze), thats why we're 4th and rightly so. Edited November 10, 2011 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Doesn't exactly come across as though he has all the answers, does he? Why do our fans keep calling us the 4th most successful club as though we're this huge dominating force? We are the 4th team in terms of league titles, but we're 7th in terms of trophies won. 15 trophies in 132 years isn't exactly a regular celebration either. Let's just say the blue union are the G.P, everton is their patient. The patient has come in to their surgery and looks a terrible mess, the parent of the patient thinks chicken soup will sort them out and has tried this for a good while. The G.P suggests the patient sees a specialist but this falls on deaf ears. Oh yes, this patient was one of the top performers at school too, fell way behind as they are never there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I agree with Hafnia here. It seems like BK says "Daddy knows best, chicken soup will fix the cancer" The GP is saying "Mr Kenwright, we know you love Everton, and you want what is best for it, but you can't fix it with love alone... PLEASE let the surgeon do his job, then you can go on loving it for a lot longer" This does seem to be like a Portsmouth situation where owners changed daily and money was disappearing at an alarming rate. This is a man who genuinely supports Everton. Sadly I think that's making it all the harder and clouding judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 One the '4th most successful club' argument - someone made a table on Wiki and did a fairly good job of totting up general success / trophies / time at the top etc. Everton unsurprisingly, came out very highly. However, 30 years ago - United would have been quite a way on that table - did it make them a small club? no Does it make Everton any more important than a team who came 10th? or 20th? or 100th? no There are a million and one reasons why clubs end up where they end up - did City deserve to get a sugar daddy? no - it just happened. Did Everton deserve to end up skint? no. Is it Accrington Stanley's fault they are a small town surrounded by larger footballing town taking away their fanbase? no I like the table, since it helps younger fans get a better understanding of history and that some teams like Preston and Burnley haven't always been diminutive clubs. It also shows that a club is more than 'here and now'. All of that said - fate is no respecter of history and bad things can happen to anybody. What happened to Leeds and City can happen to Everton, just as much as what happened to United could happen too. For all we know, Everton could mount a 20 year reign and dominate the league. We just don't know. As much as I think BK can't compete with the commercial prowess of some of the owners of other clubs, I also think football might be a lot better off if more owners were like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Let's just say the blue union are the G.P, everton is their patient. The patient has come in to their surgery and looks a terrible mess, the parent of the patient thinks chicken soup will sort them out and has tried this for a good while. The G.P suggests the patient sees a specialist but this falls on deaf ears. Oh yes, this patient was one of the top performers at school too, fell way behind as they are never there. Lol, I overhead one of the plonkers involved with BU, they're more like a self diagnosis hypochondriac who thinks every little problem is cancer and it needs cutting out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 One the '4th most successful club' argument - someone made a table on Wiki and did a fairly good job of totting up general success / trophies / time at the top etc. Everton unsurprisingly, came out very highly. However, 30 years ago - United would have been quite a way on that table - did it make them a small club? no Does it make Everton any more important than a team who came 10th? or 20th? or 100th? no There are a million and one reasons why clubs end up where they end up - did City deserve to get a sugar daddy? no - it just happened. Did Everton deserve to end up skint? no. Is it Accrington Stanley's fault they are a small town surrounded by larger footballing town taking away their fanbase? no I like the table, since it helps younger fans get a better understanding of history and that some teams like Preston and Burnley haven't always been diminutive clubs. It also shows that a club is more than 'here and now'. All of that said - fate is no respecter of history and bad things can happen to anybody. What happened to Leeds and City can happen to Everton, just as much as what happened to United could happen too. For all we know, Everton could mount a 20 year reign and dominate the league. We just don't know. As much as I think BK can't compete with the commercial prowess of some of the owners of other clubs, I also think football might be a lot better off if more owners were like him. The best thing about that table, if it's the same one, is the number of teams who no longer exist, which should serve as a reminder to all fans that things aren't quite so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Let's just say the blue union are the G.P, everton is their patient. The patient has come in to their surgery and looks a terrible mess, the parent of the patient thinks chicken soup will sort them out and has tried this for a good while. The G.P suggests the patient sees a specialist but this falls on deaf ears. Oh yes, this patient was one of the top performers at school too, fell way behind as they are never there. The patient hasnt gone to this GPs surgery in this case. The GP has tracked down the patient, is harassing the patient, telling the patient what the GP thinks is wrong without being given all the information and trying to demand/scare the patient into a change. Edited November 10, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The banks calling in their money should have been all the scaring said patient needed for change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The way the B.U are viewed by some - you would think they are single handedly trying to destroy the club?! - the current owners have taken us on that path. Of course there are going to be some people within it who lose focus and 'rant' - no different in mentality to those who oppose them for no other reason than to call them 'kopites' - who applaud Bill for being a "good bloke who loves Everton and gave us David Moyes" It's not a case for picking sides - the only side we should pick is that of Everton F.C. We should oppose anything that would stop this grand club from competing at the highest level. There have been some cringe worthy comments from all sides, but as I stand at this moment in time the B.U are more visible, proactive, passionate, driven and have taken into account all the pro's and cons of the current ownership. What stands out in my mind that makes me oppose the current regime is lies, spin, inactivity, silence, politics, stagnation. What makes me support the B.U is the fact that they have had enough of this - pick faults with them in whatever way you want, you can't doubt their desire and energy. The current regime have had a fire lit under their backsides and they are starting to dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The way the B.U are viewed by some - you would think they are single handedly trying to destroy the club?! - the current owners have taken us on that path. Of course there are going to be some people within it who lose focus and 'rant' - no different in mentality to those who oppose them for no other reason than to call them 'kopites' - who applaud Bill for being a "good bloke who loves Everton and gave us David Moyes" It's not a case for picking sides - the only side we should pick is that of Everton F.C. We should oppose anything that would stop this grand club from competing at the highest level. There have been some cringe worthy comments from all sides, but as I stand at this moment in time the B.U are more visible, proactive, passionate, driven and have taken into account all the pro's and cons of the current ownership. What stands out in my mind that makes me oppose the current regime is lies, spin, inactivity, silence, politics, stagnation. What makes me support the B.U is the fact that they have had enough of this - pick faults with them in whatever way you want, you can't doubt their desire and energy. The current regime have had a fire lit under their backsides and they are starting to dance. point 1 - they cant have all the facts because many will be confidential, they dont work behind the scenes so they can only make educated guesses. This is my problem with their crusade for the greater good - theyre not part of whats going on now so they cant know everything thats happening! point 2 - Ok, they have desire and energy, they have desire and energy for what they think is right. This isnt always a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 point 1 - they cant have all the facts because many will be confidential, they dont work behind the scenes so they can only make educated guesses. This is my problem with their crusade for the greater good - theyre not part of whats going on now so they cant know everything thats happening! point 2 - Ok, they have desire and energy, they have desire and energy for what they think is right. This isnt always a good thing! I guess the facts that present themselves as a concern are: Failed stadiums Failed investements Increased debt Decreased assets Small squad Banks calling in debts Between all of those lie stories of incompetency, cancelled AGM's, miscommunications, spin, numerous chief executives. All pointing to a very disorganised, shambolic and poor ownership/leadership. What they think is right is that the current ownership can not be trusted - I would concur with that. If the process of making their departure is accelerated by protests, media use etc - then it is necessary even if it doesn't feel right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 point 1 - they cant have all the facts because many will be confidential, they dont work behind the scenes so they can only make educated guesses. This is my problem with their crusade for the greater good - theyre not part of whats going on now so they cant know everything thats happening! point 2 - Ok, they have desire and energy, they have desire and energy for what they think is right. This isnt always a good thing! Good points. Any BU representative I've seen looks a little undereducated and over opinionated. I appreciate that football fans aren't always suited businessmen with their accountant on one side, and their solicitor on the other, and I appreciate that they're unlikely to all speak English like the queen, but the snob in me sees a scally having a moan, more than it sees an intellectual guardian angel, without wanting to be prejudiced. Do they really need to use an 18 stone skin head with a thick Scouse accent holding up a felt tip scribbled newspaper article to represent or portray them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Good points. Any BU representative I've seen looks a little undereducated and over opinionated. I appreciate that football fans aren't always suited businessmen with their accountant on one side, and their solicitor on the other, and I appreciate that they're unlikely to all speak English like the queen, but the snob in me sees a scally having a moan, more than it sees an intellectual guardian angel, without wanting to be prejudiced. Do they really need to use an 18 stone skin head with a thick Scouse accent holding up a felt tip scribbled newspaper article to represent or portray them? Av, you have just appeared as the person you are trying to picture. Leave your snobbery out of it and instead of sterotyping the movement based on a few easy targets, look at the people who stripped down the financials, the ones who had the chairman tied in knots. yeah he probably thought the same as you and tried the old EBITDA line on them - bad mistake. Wearing a suit doesn't make you intelligent, and being an 18 stone skinhead make you thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 For me, it's BK's statement that he's the best man in the world to sell Everton. I can't stop it reverberating in my mind. It's (in my opinion) a truly horrific statement to make. "I'm doing all I can" would be fine, but to have the audacity (or foolishness) to believe no other person could execute the sale better is beyond me. If you couple that with the way in which he contradicted himself a number of times in the 'interview' with Blue Union (based on the premise that the transcripts are accurate), then it gives no creedance to BK being very sharp at the business end of the club. By his own admission, the club went a long way down the road with a potential buyer only to discover one of them was effectively operating out of his bedroom! I honestly think he'd be ripped to shreds in the corridors of power in the business world. You'd expect his representation, legal and / or business would be top notch, but there's little evidence to support this either when BK's claiming it's 'he's the man!'. Surely he could just say "I love Everton, I want what is best for the club, and in doing so I have to listen to the advice of those proven to know their way around the sport business". It's not BK's forte, and that is reflected in the clubs current situation. There's no shame in that - 101 other guys of a similar disposition have done the same at other clubs. He had a go, he still loves the club, and in order to continue to still love the club, it's best to let go. The notion he's in any position to 'choose' the best suitor is a bit like the gambler deciding the best horse to race out of town on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Do they really need to use an 18 stone skin head with a thick Scouse accent holding up a felt tip scribbled newspaper article to represent or portray them? Thank f*ck i wasn't the only one who noticed!! They're a joke. Yes they're trying to do something, but most definitely not in the right way. If you don't support the B.U. you're not a 'proper fan' ahaha suck on my weener you chavs! They remind me of these - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Av, you have just appeared as the person you are trying to picture. Leave your snobbery out of it and instead of sterotyping the movement based on a few easy targets, look at the people who stripped down the financials, the ones who had the chairman tied in knots. yeah he probably thought the same as you and tried the old EBITDA line on them - bad mistake. Wearing a suit doesn't make you intelligent, and being an 18 stone skinhead make you thick. Are you talking about the 3 lads who taped the conversation behind Kenwrights back Haf? They might tie a chairmen in knots, but they certainly wouldn't tie the company accountants in knots, with the difference being that Kenwright isn't an accountant. I haven't called them thick. I simply commented on how they appear. They certainly 'are' uneducated though, in the respect of not having all the facts, as opposed to not going to school, which in turn turns most of their arguments into 'opinions' rather than facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Are you talking about the 3 lads who taped the conversation behind Kenwrights back Haf? They might tie a chairmen in knots, but they certainly wouldn't tie the company accountants in knots, with the difference being that Kenwright isn't an accountant. I haven't called them thick. I simply commented on how they appear. They certainly 'are' uneducated though, in the respect of not having all the facts, as opposed to not going to school, which in turn turns most of their arguments into 'opinions' rather than facts. Av they can only make their decisions on the facts that have been presented to them as fans over the years which lets face it, is not good, its all false promises, lies, spin and general bullshit from Bill and whoever is CE at the time or idiots like Ross, yes they don't know intimate details, but what has been presented to them so far and to the rest of us over the last 10 years, does not make good reading for any fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Are you talking about the 3 lads who taped the conversation behind Kenwrights back Haf? They might tie a chairmen in knots, but they certainly wouldn't tie the company accountants in knots, with the difference being that Kenwright isn't an accountant. I haven't called them thick. I simply commented on how they appear. They certainly 'are' uneducated though, in the respect of not having all the facts, as opposed to not going to school, which in turn turns most of their arguments into 'opinions' rather than facts. Tie accountants in knots? The make accruals, tie purchase orders to invoices, cost to expense lines etc and show in rolled up lines - all the B.U would need to say (if they had rights) is "can you provide me of a minute breakdown of the operating costs line" - I know this as I have done this myself. I think if they didn't record the meeting no one would believe what was said, do I have an issue with it? maybe, but I would have more of an issue in not knowing that our club was in his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Those lads in the video remind me of the City fans making camel gestures and wearing tea-towels on their heads when City were taken over. You always get them. I don't for one moment believe them to be representative of the the average supporter. As for the accountants - technically, they aren't running the club, they are 'accounting'. If they were running the club, then they'd be doing a poor job. The CFO should be responsible though. If Bill isn't calling the shots and for the large part responsible for the situation, then who is? Bill himself is proclaiming himself to be running the show, 'best man to sell the club' etc I can see Avinalaff's point that decent accountants will obfuscate the hell out of the figures and make it hard to read (if so minded), but all that is still window dressing for 'struggling to pay the bills'. Even the dumbest fan knows THAT situation and is right asking "Hey Bill, we're a big club, decent gates, not spending, selling good players... WTF are you lot doing?" That is a damn fair question, and one which Bill responds to (in the space of a single interview) 1) "I don't know where the money's going" then 2) "It's all going to the banks" And it still doesn't address the real question - WHY? Edited November 10, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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