MikeO Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 ....I wish Hibbert wouldve closed him down a bit quicker. He had all the time in the world That's what my wife said....and she knows f'ck all about football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 That's what my wife said....and she knows f'ck all about football. Hibbert drifts inside far too often. The amount of times you see him standing a yard away from Jags while the wide man is in acres of space is criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hibbert drifts inside far too often. The amount of times you see him standing a yard away from Jags while the wide man is in acres of space is criminal. to be fair thats because Jags has been out of place, Hibbert fills the gap and Jags gets back quicker than Hibbert can then get back to his position. My view on it anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesSmurfy Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 tim howard for me but the way roy was playing the first 25mins was pure class, thought he played much better on the left wing not the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Come on its not rocket science The lad hasnt played any football for the best part of a year and wasnt match fit when he arrived, thats why he hasnt been in the side. http://www.liverpool...00252-29648556/ Loan star Drenthe, who has one cap for Holland, said he is approaching top fitness, and had to work hard to get into shape following a disrupted season at Real Madrid last term. “Before I started to play, the manager killed me in training,” he said of David Moyes’ rigorous fitness regime. “He made me run a lot and now I feel really fit and great. That’s what I wanted, to be sharp. I don’t want not to be fit and then come into a game and not be able to handle the pressure. I feel good now.” It also isnt rocket science to be letting him have more game time to improve his match fitness. Im not saying he should have jumped straight into the team but nearly two months down the line and this is his first league start. He played games for Hercules last season so its not like he has done nothing at all. Even if he got the first 60minutes and then replaced, he will have contributed more than the other two in have so far this season from the wide positions. Our right side was non-existent for the whole game. I don't know where Hibbert's head was at against Fulham but it wasn't at Craven Cottage. I wasnt overly impressed with Hibbert all game either, but Neville could have helped him out a lot more for their goal. Instead of watching space he should have been back in there earlier in the move to help Hibbert & jags out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 How do you work that out? You have just said we havent had a player like that since Rooney (who Moyes played by the way) so how could Moyes be playing the Kilbanes of this world ahead of this type of player if we havent had any? Comparing Drenthes flair to that of Rooney doesn't mean we haven't that type of player, more the point that he would sooner have a jobber on the pitch who will have an 80% pass completion and keep ball (side ways) as opposed to a flair player who will give the ball away more but far more likely create or score. When do we see pace or direct attacking from his wide men? The game against Man city was all we needed to see, their full backs had a field day against Osman and Coleman. Coleman has not looked near right since his injury but still plays him ahead of a dutch international who has bags of pace, skill and vision. My fear for coleman is the same as to what has happened to Rodwell, Moyes cautious approach will see all that early flair coached out of the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Comparing Drenthes flair to that of Rooney doesn't mean we haven't that type of player, more the point that he would sooner have a jobber on the pitch who will have an 80% pass completion and keep ball (side ways) as opposed to a flair player who will give the ball away more but far more likely create or score. When do we see pace or direct attacking from his wide men? The game against Man city was all we needed to see, their full backs had a field day against Osman and Coleman. Coleman has not looked near right since his injury but still plays him ahead of a dutch international who has bags of pace, skill and vision. My fear for coleman is the same as to what has happened to Rodwell, Moyes cautious approach will see all that early flair coached out of the player. So which flair players has he been leaving on the sidelines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 It also isnt rocket science to be letting him have more game time to improve his match fitness. Im not saying he should have jumped straight into the team but nearly two months down the line and this is his first league start. He played games for Hercules last season so its not like he has done nothing at all. Even if he got the first 60minutes and then replaced, he will have contributed more than the other two in have so far this season from the wide positions. I wasnt overly impressed with Hibbert all game either, but Neville could have helped him out a lot more for their goal. Instead of watching space he should have been back in there earlier in the move to help Hibbert & jags out. He only played the first half of season then refused to play because they hadn't/wouldn't pay him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 So which flair players has he been leaving on the sidelines? Ironically look at McFadden first time round, moyes kept him on the sidelines for kilbane, kilbane was an honest hard worker but had nothing in his locker. Look at moyes playing anichebe when fit, even as a right midfielder, when we have had gueye on the bench. How long before playing Coleman? Look at moyes playing Cahill when he has bily who deserved a go at attacking mud, and never got that opportunity. Look at the 3 defensive midfielders he often goes with when he could play osman in a creative role. Moyes is cautious full stop, the irony is that he tries to play the lads who keep the ball but can't do anything to break a defence, eventually giving the ball away anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Ironically look at McFadden first time round, moyes kept him on the sidelines for kilbane, kilbane was an honest hard worker but had nothing in his locker. Look at moyes playing anichebe when fit, even as a right midfielder, when we have had gueye on the bench. How long before playing Coleman? Look at moyes playing Cahill when he has bily who deserved a go at attacking mud, and never got that opportunity. Look at the 3 defensive midfielders he often goes with when he could play osman in a creative role. Moyes is cautious full stop, the irony is that he tries to play the lads who keep the ball but can't do anything to break a defence, eventually giving the ball away anyway. So nobody then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Look at moyes playing Cahill when he has bily who deserved a go at attacking mud.... Sounds right....he always looks like he's playing knee deep in it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 So nobody then? Ah right, I need to structure the response around your question? when my initial point was that moyes is a stickler for positional discipline with work rate vs flair and I used good historic examples to back this up. So yes, prior to Fulham it was Drenthe. Is that enough? Or maybe the fact that he fills a 5 man midfield with 3 defensive players more often than not - is that enough? Bottom line is Moyes and Round are ultra defensive, once in a blue moon they set up a team to attack - make us think that they realise the error of being perma defensive and then revert back to it when playing a team who look like they can score a goal. Frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 The last time i genuinely felt like we attacked teams and set up attack mindedly was the 07/08 season, highlights include hammering Sunderland 7-1! We finished 5th that year. It won't happen again for at least another 3/4 years imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 The last time i genuinely felt like we attacked teams and set up attack mindedly was the 07/08 season, highlights include hammering Sunderland 7-1! We finished 5th that year. It won't happen again for at least another 3/4 years imo. Ironically that win came just days after Alan Irvine left. We were a better attacking unit when we had irvine with lesser players IMO. Look at the results post Irvine and you don't see many goals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Scary isn't it. I don't think its all down to Round, but i still think he's a wet fart. "Yes Mr David sir, thats a fantastic idea Mr David sir, would you like me to lick your shoes beauti...i mean boss?" I would like the appointment of an attacking coach, that being his job specifically, encouraging our front midfield and forwards. personally I think a dutch technical coach could do us a world of good. Fantastic coaching standards, who coach control, movement with pace and in some occasions, individualism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Scary isn't it. I don't think its all down to Round, but i still think he's a wet fart. "Yes Mr David sir, thats a fantastic idea Mr David sir, would you like me to lick your shoes beauti...i mean boss?" I would like the appointment of an attacking coach, that being his job specifically, encouraging our front midfield and forwards. personally I think a dutch technical coach could do us a world of good. Fantastic coaching standards, who coach control, movement with pace and in some occasions, individualism. Agree with this. Just watch MOTD to see the difference in the pundits views of the game your dixons, hansens are looking at mistakes the defenders make (I do rate them as pundits too) - then compare to shearer - he looks at runs, passes and finishing. We need a "whole" view of our tactics, we are snowed with defensive coaches. Just from an amateur perspective I have never been a defensive player, purely attacking. I can go nuts at someone hiding or being a statue (bily) as I know what they should be doing, from a defenders performance there has always been people far more qualified than me to critique. So yes, a blend is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Was watching the Everton/Arsenal game from 2002 on EvertonTV the other day. Only seven minute highlights admittedly but we played 442 against an "invincible" side and attacked them at speed at every opportunity...with a much "lesser" group of players. And...er....won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Ironically that win came just days after Alan Irvine left. We were a better attacking unit when we had irvine with lesser players IMO. Look at the results post Irvine and you don't see many goals... i thought chelsea played better football when ray wilkins was there. hes not got a full time job anymore, worth a punt? will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Would love Ray Wilkins, I've said it before on here. He's a man management type of coach AND he likes to attack. Edited October 26, 2011 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 How ironic that wilkins the original crab has been credited with attacking coaching. Was a good player though. Yes the team that beat the invincibles had radzinski - quick as you like, he got the equaliser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Was watching the Everton/Arsenal game from 2002 on EvertonTV the other day. Only seven minute highlights admittedly but we played 442 against an "invincible" side and attacked them at speed at every opportunity...with a much "lesser" group of players. And...er....won. This is what I just don't get with Moyes, particularly against the so called big boys. When we've beaten them, or come close, it's because we've had a go and gave them something to think about. So he knows that's the best way to go about getting a positive result. But he still reverts to the negative, defensive crap that we see most of the time, even against the crap sides in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 This is what I just don't get with Moyes, particularly against the so called big boys. When we've beaten them, or come close, it's because we've had a go and gave them something to think about. So he knows that's the best way to go about getting a positive result. But he still reverts to the negative, defensive crap that we see most of the time, even against the crap sides in the league. just to throw another conspiracy theory out there..... Maybe this is him sulking about not getting funds for new players, so he plays a team that reflects his mood in the hopes the the board will up the efforts of finding new investiment. Pressure on them by under performing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 just to throw another conspiracy theory out there..... Maybe this is him sulking about not getting funds for new players, so he plays a team that reflects his mood in the hopes the the board will up the efforts of finding new investiment. Pressure on them by under performing... I can't see that, and I don't think you can either, but I'll treat it as if you're being serious . If true, he should stop acting like a fucking child. He's paid very well to get the best out of what he's got, andhe knew what he was getting when he decided to sign that deal with the bumper wage. Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I can't see that, and I don't think you can either, but I'll treat it as if you're being serious . If true, he should stop acting like a fucking child. He's paid very well to get the best out of what he's got, andhe knew what he was getting when he decided to sign that deal with the bumper wage. Grow up. was just a thought to be honest. Too pissed off with the boss to work and im about to leave (early - sod em) for a few days off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Simple as this, Moyes loves his "yes boys". If it means dropping Osman instead of playing Drenthe on the left handside, he will play Osman, if Cahill is stinking the place out he gets more time than anyone else before being dropped. Even Neville was given game time after some awful games that warranted an extended spell of the bench. He will consider other options, sure he will, but he will never opt for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Simple as this, Moyes loves his "yes boys". If it means dropping Osman instead of playing Drenthe on the left handside, he will play Osman, if Cahill is stinking the place out he gets more time than anyone else before being dropped. Even Neville was given game time after some awful games that warranted an extended spell of the bench. He will consider other options, sure he will, but he will never opt for them. That's true, misconception about Moyes playing youth. He only plays the kids as last resorts, he'll play them if they manage to hold their own for a couple of games (ala Coleman) but he wouldn't dare start some of the kids before season'd 'proffesionals' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 That's true, misconception about Moyes playing youth. He only plays the kids as last resorts, he'll play them if they manage to hold their own for a couple of games (ala Coleman) but he wouldn't dare start some of the kids before season'd 'proffesionals' Watch it, J, you'll have duncanmckenzieismagic onto you now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 That's true, misconception about Moyes playing youth. He only plays the kids as last resorts, he'll play them if they manage to hold their own for a couple of games (ala Coleman) but he wouldn't dare start some of the kids before season'd 'proffesionals' prove it! its all a myth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 prove it! its all a myth! Prove what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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