Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 He's always been accountable but lets face it, he hasn't done bad for the 8/9 years he's been here. We could go gung ho like Keegan did at Newcastle, scored lots of goals but had lots scored against them, its only now they are recovering after a spell in the Championship. Lets all calm down and see where we finish at the end of the season, Get behind the manager and hope we can get some one to invest in the Club. I think people do go OTT with the In Moyes We Trust - I trusted him when he transformed our aged elephants graveyard, I seen a few things I wasn't pleased with (resting Rooney all the time, conservative tactics, big budget buy errors) - I thought over time he would improve, but he hasn't. He is starting to look stubborn. Look at benitez at Liverpool, you get judged on recent perfromances not history. You never used to see Moyes doubters, you can't avoid them now. I expect Barkley to start games, at his worst he must be better than Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/ A good read as always. Interesting that away from home over 50% of the goals that Stoke concede are long range efforts - how many attempts did we have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also was it just me who thought that we didn't chase down that well today? We seemed not bothered, or commited. Could it have had anything to do with a midweek pissup in tenerife? I won't go on because everyone has mentioned the main parts.. Cahill must now be a bench player.. Moyes shouldnt have taken Vellios off... Why play balls to wide areas all game, (Thats all i was shouting yesterday) ... We need to pay refs off before opposition managers do, its becoming a joke and something i get used to every other week now at goodison, poor, porr officials ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 BoroBlue - we're not allowed to have players who don't run around like headless chickens, didn't you know? That's why Yak took so much stick, that's why Drenthe has had some stick. Me? I'm with you mate, we should have players who have the freedom to just do what they're good at, what they're actually out there to do. Whether that's to create a goalscoring opportunity or to put a goalscoring opportunity away. We should have enough grafters in our side to cover for that. You can not lose games with that sort of defensive mindset, but it's very hard to win games when that's your plan A, B and C. That's where we're suffering. I'm not saying you can't win games that way but it's difficult to do it on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 This from the Guardian's chalkboards article this morning: "Everton's problems up front are longstanding, but Sunday's 1-0 home defeat to Stoke must be a new low – 67% possession, yet no shots on targets in the match, for the first time since 2008-09. In Mikel Arteta's absence Everton lack creativity from midfield. Further forward, this surely was not the game for the 19-year-old striker Apostolos Vellios, who was fielded up front against the physical Stoke back line – he did not record a shot, nor win an aerial battle, and completed only eight passes in open play." Pretty much just backs up what everyone else has being waying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 All this makes it tough for moyes with Yak notching 4, his first really was a beauty. Anyhow, on with the season - if Moyes doesn't get the right money to buy a striker in January I can honestly see him making a make or break stance. Who though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 We need to go in for that Djalo who is apprently on his way to Villa for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 All this makes it tough for moyes with Yak notching 4, his first really was a beauty. Anyhow, on with the season - if Moyes doesn't get the right money to buy a striker in January I can honestly see him making a make or break stance. Who though? see debate in the shoutbox = Ian Holloway!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 We're up against Arteta next week. Psychologically it will be difficult, though traditionally they normally give us a good seeing to, and I'm expecting a very heavy defeat next week of at least 3 or 4-0. I personally feel Arsenal are there for the taking. I havent been impressed with them at all and its only thanks to RVP that they have turned their season around and IF we can keep him quiet I would expect us to take some points, if not all 3 considering how crap their defence has been at times (bar Vermaelan). Arsenals midfield is the worst I have seen for a very long time, and I cant help noticing how one paced and sloppy both Arteta & Ramsey are when they are pressed. Walcott & Gervinho arent much better either. I really don't understand all the calls for us to play 2 upfront. We have no strikers of the required quality at the moment so why do people feel picking 2 of them is going to help anything? Most the top teams play with one striker these days the difference is they have players around them who can create and play off the striker. I think our problem is our midfield 5 is completely flat, all players are expected to be involved in both defensive and attacking phases of play and it just doesn't work. We are so easy to defend against because we are so flat, teams can afford just to soak up the pressure and hit us on the break, yesterday we had 70% possesion and still were unable to create anything. It seems to me players are unwilling to move into space and play in the hole as this would mean leaving an opposition player unmarked, it is such a negative way to play and is why we always end up playing hoofball, because there is no-one linking midfield/defence and attack. If we play with a back 4 with Baines and Coleman at fullback and Rodwell and Felliani playing as defensive central midfielders this gives us a solid back 6 capable of controlling the game at the back as well as joining attack when appropriate. One up front with the ability to hold the ball and bring others into play, I like Vellios for this as I feel he has all the attributes and ability needed and is only going to get better. That gives us 3 players who can afford to play with abit of freedom to create chances, and play in the hole between the oppositions defence and midfield. I am not saying these players should have no defensive responsibilities at all, but not when we have the ball. What really impresses me about Barcelona aside from there obvious technical abilities is what they do when they don't have the ball, they defend from the from the front and don't give the opposition a moments peace. How many times do you see there attacking players in and around there own box, but that doesn't mean they don't contribute defensively. I certainly agree with this. 451 for me is the most attacking and flexible formation we can realistically play with considering the player available and the majority of the most successful teams around the world play with a variation of this set up. A back 5 of Hibbert, Jags, Heits & Baines with Felli just infront would be good enough to stop most teams from playing, and would allow the rest to have the freedom to go and play. I cant stand playing 2 defensive midfields as one player is more or less wasted, as they share defensive duties but dont get far enough forward to join in with the attack. Rodwell makes it work just about because of his athleticism. People used to rip into Benitez for doing it, yet Moyes does the same and it goes under the radar.The main reason for it is because of Cahill. He never used to play that far forward when we had Carsley in the team, but because he was being worked out my opposition midfielders he has gradually been pushed further and further forward. I keep going back to it, but against Liverpool last season in that first half, we defended like Barcalona (to an extent anyway). We pressed them high up the pitch won the ball back early and scored two well deserved goals. We even did it a little bit in the first 10-15 mins against Fulham and caused them all sorts of trouble, scoring one goal and could/should have added at least another one. No player in the world likes being pressed, and only the best can deal with it when it is done properly. If it so happens that they play one touch football all the way up the pitch and score a worldy goal, then fair play & well done, but its hard to stomach when we invite teams on to us and conceed a sloppy avoidable goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think Hibbert is in good form at the moment. I'm not sure I'd want to drop him and put Coleman there. They've been gelling recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think Hibbert is in good form at the moment. I'm not sure I'd want to drop him and put Coleman there. They've been gelling recently. While I agree with you about Hibberts form I do not think he should be first choice at rightback as he is very limited as a footballer. As back-up and as a squad player I think he is great, a model profesional who is solid and reliable definsively, but this isn't enough to be first choice in a team who are looking to progress. I am not saying Coleman is the better rightback at the moment but he has the potential to be, and I think he offers far more going forward although he is not as solid at the back, but what do they say about attack being the best form of defence, the opposition can afford to be alot more adventurous if we have a player who offers nothing going forward. The pace and directness of Coleman would mean the opposition would have to be more cautious coming forward so not to get hit on the break. It would also afford whoever is playing right mid more space as the opposition would not be able to double up on them and would have to watch out for overlapping runs. Its just a theory but basically what I am saying is I think a more attacking fullback could actually make us more defensively solid as a unit aswell as offering more going forward. This is because we would not be inviting pressure on ourselves down that side and would give them something to think about aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 A back 5 of Hibbert, Jags, Heits & Baines with Felli just infront would be good enough to stop most teams from playing, and would allow the rest to have the freedom to go and play. I cant stand playing 2 defensive midfields as one player is more or less wasted, as they share defensive duties but dont get far enough forward to join in with the attack. I know what you mean and perhaps I have worded it wrong, what I meant was more that we have 2 centre mids who play a more disciplined role. Felliani and Rodwell both have the athleticism and the brain to be able to provide cover to the defence and each other while getting forward when appropriate. I agree with you that 2 midfield anchors leaves 1 player wasted but I do think a midfield anchor plays better when they have a deep-lying player next to them who can make themselves available to recieve the ball from the more defensive minded players and give it to the more attacking players. Xavi is a great example of this type of player. Arteta did this job for us and I think that has been something we have missed this year and Arsenal have benefited from. Unfortunately we do not have that type of player anymore, but what we do have is 2 players in Rodwell and Felliani who have the athleticism to play box-to-box, the footballing brain to know when to stay back and when to get forward, the defensive ability to be able to cover the backline including 2 attacking full backs, and the technical ability to be able to control the game and bring others in to play. This is why I think we should play both in defensive/central midfield roles and I think as the partnership develops it could be a formidable one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 While I agree with you about Hibberts form I do not think he should be first choice at rightback as he is very limited as a footballer. As back-up and as a squad player I think he is great, a model profesional who is solid and reliable definsively, but this isn't enough to be first choice in a team who are looking to progress. I am not saying Coleman is the better rightback at the moment but he has the potential to be, and I think he offers far more going forward although he is not as solid at the back, but what do they say about attack being the best form of defence, the opposition can afford to be alot more adventurous if we have a player who offers nothing going forward. The pace and directness of Coleman would mean the opposition would have to be more cautious coming forward so not to get hit on the break. It would also afford whoever is playing right mid more space as the opposition would not be able to double up on them and would have to watch out for overlapping runs. Its just a theory but basically what I am saying is I think a more attacking fullback could actually make us more defensively solid as a unit aswell as offering more going forward. This is because we would not be inviting pressure on ourselves down that side and would give them something to think about aswell. Coleman is already on the wing, and constantly runs into problems. I'd rather those problems were higher up the pitch until he progresses. Hibbert is lightening quick, and despite not being the best going forward, I've honestly noticed a growth in his game recently, and his forward game has improved dramatically. I still rate him as one of the top right backs in the game, and could never understand why so many others couldn't see it. I would rather have Hibbert in the England team than Johnson if I'm honest, without wanting to be biased. I think he still has it, and is probably the best defender we have by a mile. It's a pity he doesn't get the credit he deserves, but I never did agree with other football fans on most things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hibbert is lightening quick, The rest of what you said was right but Hibbert is never lightening quick in a million years. He makes Jags look fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hibbert is faster than Barry Horne was - that's about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 He looks pretty nifty to me lol. Maybe the Prem strikers are just slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) I think Hibbert is okay. Can't say I think he is better than Johnson... but if Moyes is expecting Coleman to be the future of the RB position, then this might be the season to get him in there for some hardcore experience. I don't think we risk being relegated even with Coleman at RB, so might as well, IMO. Hopefully Gueye and/or Barkley will hit a run of form, and they can cover the right side (hopefully used loosely). However, I understand Moyes doesn't really like to throw the young lads in there for too long. Edited December 6, 2011 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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