EFC-Paul Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Zamora is a decent player who I think alot of people have overlooked over the years, fair do's his goal tally is far from prolific but it's his ability to bring in other players that makes him a good asset. He should have been in Heskeys shoes long ago and god knows why He wasn't tbh, is He worth 5m in todays market I'd say so. Anyhow back to Jelavic I'm chuffed we got him I thought We should have gone in for him when Rangers did and as said if not for their financial restraints He would never have come here as He would have been well out of our price range. Oh and I'd say Drogba and Van Persie are damn near world class Drogba a year or two ago definitely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Fuck me van Persie isn't world class!!! He wouldn't get into any team in the world?!!! If you're basing it on that then Zamora is shite!!! I'd hate to be your mrs! Kardasian/Scherzinger - average!!! Put simply, no. I think we've had this debate on TT before about who is World Class and who is a Very good player. Van persie has had an outstanding season, no doubt. But he has been injured and was way too inconsistent when he first arrived at Arsenal for him to be World Class. Going on your opinion would you say Demba Ba was World Class? I.e in the same Category as the Messi's and Ronaldo's of this World? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well put it this way, I would be devastated if we paid 4 million pounds for a 31 year old Bobby Zamora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Agreed about Zamora being able to bring others into play and great in the air.. granted. However so was Emile Heskey, even better than Zamora to be honest at doing that. Is he a very good premiership striker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) People seem to band World class around Messi and the like but that level doesn't start and end with them He is at the very top of the ladder players such as Van Persie Xavi Pepe Ozil and many more fall into that category. Heskey never was nor ever will be a better player then Zamora, Heskey is a piss poor excuse for a striker in My book and how He ever played national football and for some decent clubs is beyond me...a modern day Carlton Palmer nearly as shite just shorter and alot fatter. Edited February 1, 2012 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Put simply, no. I think we've had this debate on TT before about who is World Class and who is a Very good player. Van persie has had an outstanding season, no doubt. But he has been injured and was way too inconsistent when he first arrived at Arsenal for him to be World Class. Going on your opinion would you say Demba Ba was World Class? I.e in the same Category as the Messi's and Ronaldo's of this World? I would say Ba is amongst the best finishers in the premiership, possibly a world class finisher. Zamora is a very dangerous forward player, no he doesn't score as many as others but he is a very good player - you would be hard pressed to find many better at doing what he does in the prem e.g holding the ball up/bringing others into play. I'd of had him here at £5m if we hadn't got Jelavic on board. £5m is hardly stretching the budget for QPR and they must be considered a dangerous team with Zamora/Cisse. A good example of a very good prem player is Kevin Davies - you don't play at the highest level for that lOng unless you have something about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Davis is a good example but what is it with that noggin of his it looks like an inflated kidney bean or cashew nut!!? Sorry going well off topic now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 People seem to band World class around Messi and the like but that level doesn't start and end with them He is at the very top of the ladder players such as Van Persie Xavi Pepe Ozil and many more fall into that category. Think it all comes down to Opinion mate. If Van persie carried this seasons form on or another 2 years, then he would definatly be World Class in my book. Cant say i agree with Pepe and Ozil as world class either... Ozil is a Very good player, but dont rate Pepe myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) ...but to be fair Heskey was very good for many years. In Sven's time he was a very important part of our national team. A lot of people only recognise players for the headlines - players like Heskey, Zamora, Davies often go under the radar but actually what they do for their team in a team sport is as important as the headline makers. Would we have got top 4 had it not been for Lee Carsley? Lee Carsley was a very good defensive midfielder. Maybe I shouldn't say striker but Heskey, Davies and Zamora have been very good premiership target men - they just happen to be labelled as strikers. Edited February 1, 2012 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I would say Ba is amongst the best finishers in the premiership, possibly a world class finisher. Zamora is a very dangerous forward player, no he doesn't score as many as others but he is a very good player - you would be hard pressed to find many better at doing what he does in the prem e.g holding the ball up/bringing others into play. I'd of had him here at £5m if we hadn't got Jelavic on board. £5m is hardly stretching the budget for QPR and they must be considered a dangerous team with Zamora/Cisse. A good example of a very good prem player is Kevin Davies - you don't play at the highest level for that lOng unless you have something about you. Thats a whole new can of worms, but we wont go into it And your right, £5m is probably nothing for QPR but when you look at it, he will probably have 2 half decent seasons with them now as his best is behind him (See Louis Saha), that's cost them £2.5m a season, not including wages. If that was us.. i wouldnt have been overly impressed. I think Distin at £5m was a bit pricey imo, but like i said earlier, Defenders at that age i think develop into better players and at 31-32 i still think its a bit pricey but i think your getting a better player because he probably had 2-3 good years left in him. I think Zamora can only decline from now, as we saw with Saha, he was 31 when he scored in the F.A cup final, he is now 33 and as Useful as a chocolate teapot Oh and as for Davies, i think he is a good player, consistant, but he isnt a very good player. Again My opinion and we've already seen we differ on "Very good players" so i'll leave that at that (64 in 304 for Bolton) Edited February 1, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Zamora, Heskey, Davies, Zola, Bergkamp... all 1 in 4/5 premiership goalscorers (none prolific) - 2 considered world class, the others shite... they all create more than they score but because the 2 world class ones do it with their feet they are seen as forwards rather than strikers... the others who are less fashionable target men are just seen as shite strikers. Clearly I would prefer a Zola or berkamp any day but these are luxury players who you must accomodate. ...and if we're only considering the best 2 players in the world as world class with the next level being very good then there was actually no point entertaining this subject! Zamora will be a very good signing for QPR (proven in the prem), I hope Jelavic will be an even better signing for us (still unproven at this level), Edited February 1, 2012 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Zamora, Heskey, Davies, Zola, Bergkamp... all 1 in 4 premiership goalscorers - 2 considered world class, the others shite... they all create more than they score but because the 2 world class ones do it with their feet they are seen as forwards rather than strikers... the others who are less fashionable target men are just seen as shite strikers. Clearly I would prefer a Zola or berkamp any day but these are luxury players who you must accomodate. ...and if we're only considering the best 2 players in the world as world class with the next level being very good then there was actually no point entertaining this subject! Zamora will be a very good signing for QPR (proven in the prem), I hope Jelavic will be an even better signing for us (still unproven at this level), Were did i say that? I said Messi's and Ronaldo's, but I would probably put Xavi, Iniesta and Rooney up their with them, Rooney probably isnt at their level of World Class, but he is definitely a world class player. "Zamora will be a very good signing for QPR (proven in the prem)" I will hold you to that Edited February 1, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Were did i say that? I said Messi's and Ronaldo's I would probably put Xavi, Iniesta and Rooney up their with them, Rooney probably isnt at their level of World Class, but he is definitely a world class player. "Zamora will be a very good signing for QPR (proven in the prem)" I will hold you to that Good, as I will to van Persie isn't world class. Anyway I'll leave you to get back to your distinctly average mrs as I'm sure you'll have to go to your shite job, in your crap car tomorrow (based on your rating system!!! ) Goodnight and god bless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Good, as I will to van Persie isn't world class. Anyway I'll leave you to get back to your distinctly average mrs as I'm sure you'll have to go to your shite job, in your crap car tomorrow (based on your rating system!!! ) Goodnight and god bless! .............. Grow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Put simply, no. I think we've had this debate on TT before about who is World Class and who is a Very good player. Van persie has had an outstanding season, no doubt. But he has been injured and was way too inconsistent when he first arrived at Arsenal for him to be World Class. Going on your opinion would you say Demba Ba was World Class? I.e in the same Category as the Messi's and Ronaldo's of this World? He was playing left mid/second striker when he first came over and was superb. His goals to games ratio the last few seasons has been amazing, injury prone is the only negative. Him and Drogba are two of the best strikers to have played in the premiership. Henry comes nowhere close to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Were did i say that? I said Messi's and Ronaldo's, but I would probably put Xavi, Iniesta and Rooney up their with them, Rooney probably isnt at their level of World Class, but he is definitely a world class player. "Zamora will be a very good signing for QPR (proven in the prem)" I will hold you to that Messi is over rated(and wouldnt cut it in the prem), Ronando scores more goals and Higuian has a better goals to shot ratio even though Messi has the better service Edited February 1, 2012 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Hmmm, Henry - 174 goals in 254 games Drogba - 98 Goals in 217 games Van persie - 85 goals in 178 games Think he comes pretty (close?) if im honest And Messi wouldnt Cut it in the prem? I've read a lot of your posts today and you seem to be talking out of your ring piece (again) my good sir Edited February 1, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Hmmm, Henry - 174 goals in 254 games Drogba - 98 Goals in 217 games Van persie - 85 goals in 178 games Think he comes pretty (close?) if im honest And Messi wouldnt Cut it in the prem? I've read a lot of your posts today and you seem to be talking out of your ring piece (again) my good sir Henry had the likes of Llungberg, Pires and Bergkamp setting him up. RVP has Theo Walcott, Gervinho, and Song. RVP makes the difference when we play Arsenal, Henry not so much. Wow watched the Balon D'or? Messi is no where near the best, and would not cut it in the prem. Put him in a team like B'burn and he's be lucky to get on the pitch whereas RVP would still bag double figures Edited February 1, 2012 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) RVP had Nasri, Fabregas and an On form (of a year or two a go) Arshavin "Setting him up" Whats your point? You said Henry didnt come close? when in fact he has scored more than double RVP has now, (give you that he played more games). And Drogba only comes about 60 goals short aswell and he is still playing in the prem. and to say Henry didnt make a difference.... I'll just leave that as there is so much wrong with that statement the world may implode if i even attempt to acknowledge it. And you cant possibly say that because Messi plays in a team like Blackburn he wouldnt be as good because we simply dont know, its like comparing Messi and Ronaldo, you cant because they're 2 completely different players, both amazing, but totally different. Apologies to Admin for the Off topic posts btw! Delete if necessary Edited February 2, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 RVP had Nasri, Fabregas and an On form (of a year or two a go) Arshavin "Setting him up" Whats your point? You said Henry didnt come close? when in fact he has scored more than double RVP has now, (give you that he played more games). And Drogba only comes about 60 goals short aswell and he is still playing in the prem. and to say Henry didnt make a difference.... I'll just leave that as there is so much wrong with that statement the world may implode if i even attempt to acknowledge it. And you cant possibly say that because Messi plays in a team like Blackburn he wouldnt be as good because we simply dont know, its like comparing Messi and Ronaldo, you cant because there 2 completely different players, both amazing, but totally different. CBA checking but am pretty sure RVP has the best goals to minute ratio. Rewatch Everton v Arsenal at Goodison and you will find Henry sitting on the half way line having a picnic. If I could have one in the Everton side it would be RVP or Drogba, Henry is a luxury with a reputation bigger than his talent. Messi and Ronaldo both play in Spain, Messi in the better side, yet Ronaldo scored 9 more goals last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 CBA checking but am pretty sure RVP has the best goals to minute ratio. Rewatch Everton v Arsenal at Goodison and you will find Henry sitting on the half way line having a picnic. If I could have one in the Everton side it would be RVP or Drogba, Henry is a luxury with a reputation bigger than his talent. Messi and Ronaldo both play in Spain, Messi in the better side, yet Ronaldo scored 9 more goals last season. Are you thick or just stupid? 1) Henry might have been waiting on the half way line, because that was his game, he would stay on the last man, break with great pace and 9 times out of 10 finish it. RVP and Drogba are 2 different players to Henry, but your theory said they dont come close... which i soon blew out of the water. Do you remember the goal Henry scored when he ran from his own half? so i dont think waiting on the last man was his only attribute. 2) fair enough, if you would have RVP thats your opinion. 3) I said you cant compare Messi and Ronaldo! They're 2 completely different players, Ronaldo may have scored more, but i'd like to see the assists as well! I'm not saying RVP is shite or anything, im just saying he is a Very good player as opposed to World Class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Are you thick or just stupid? 1) Henry might have been waiting on the half way line, because that was his game, he would stay on the last man, break with great pace and 9 times out of 10 finish it. RVP and Drogba are 2 different players to Henry, but your theory said they dont come close... which i soon blew out of the water. Do you remember the goal Henry scored when he ran from his own half? so i dont think waiting on the last man was his only attribute. 2) fair enough, if you would have RVP thats your opinion. 3) I said you cant compare Messi and Ronaldo! They're 2 completely different players, Ronaldo may have scored more, but i'd like to see the assists as well! I'm not saying RVP is shite or anything, im just saying he is a Very good player as opposed to World Class. Wheres the water blowing? and I never said Henry hangs on the last man, which is actually a strikers job and where he should have been. What one would have a bigger impact in the Everton team? Also take into consideration that Henry was woeful at Goodison and I cant remember him scoring a single goal in the Old Lady After his goal against us how can you not think he's world class? He outshines every striker in the prem Comparing assist would be unfair considering the support Messi gets compared to Ronaldo, but its 1 more this season, and 8 last. Overall goals and assist Ronaldo still edges it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Wheres the water blowing? and I never said Henry hangs on the last man, which is actually a strikers job and where he should have been. What one would have a bigger impact in the Everton team? Also take into consideration that Henry was woeful at Goodison and I cant remember him scoring a single goal in the Old Lady After his goal against us how can you not think he's world class? He outshines every striker in the prem Comparing assist would be unfair considering the support Messi gets compared to Ronaldo, but its 1 more this season, and 8 last. Overall goals and assist Ronaldo still edges it i know! I said it! Jesus, its like speaking to a 5 year old. Okay, He scored a magical goal against us, and he went on to be the bestest striker the world ever new, and they all lived happily ever after in a castle with a pet dragon. On a serious note, he's having a great year no doubt, but so is Demba Ba, and i dont think anybody would call him World class, very good player yes, world class no? And how is comparing assists unfair based on support? i see why support could be brought into contention when considering goals, but why assists? Anyway this is a Jelavic thread thats gone terribly wrong, leave it out because everything you base your arguments on seem to have no basis what so ever. Goodnight. Edited February 2, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 i know! I said it! Jesus, its like speaking to a 5 year old. Okay, He scored a magical goal against us, and he went on to be the bestest striker the world ever new, and they all lived happily ever after in a castle with a pet dragon. On a serious note, he's having a great year no doubt, but so is Demba Ba, and i dont think anybody would call him World class, very good player yes, world class no? And how is comparing assists unfair based on support? i see why support could be brought into contention when considering goals, but why assists? Anyway this is a Jelavic thread thats gone terribly wrong, leave it out because everything you base your arguments on seem to have no basis what so ever. Goodnight. A 5 y.o. would point out knew is spelt with a k Its not just a great year, injuries aside he hasnt stopped scoring for the last few years, unbelievably consistent for a striker in the prem, more so than any other I can think of. Goodnight Godbless sleep tight dont let the bed bugs bite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Joe Hart - very average (before anyone moans he is know where near the world class keepers, and isnt even top 5 in the league) * No If you wanna get picky more so than any other I can think of. Henry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 * No If you wanna get picky Henry? Don't no if you could tell I was being jovial with that remark (its clear as daylight my grammar is awful) Back to Jelavic he's not gonna be a premiership legend but heres hoping he bangs a few goals in, hoping straq keeps his place for now though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 couple of points...the reason players like henry and messi have such great service is cos they are great players who get in great teams..never understood why a striker who gets service is looked upon worse than those who don't get it..if you have the great service you don't need to fuck about makin it yourself..that said henry scored a lot of solo goals too and set up quite a lot..would be interested to see his assist stats too...same as messi...as for drogba he was shite for 18 months and hasn't done it as long as henry did it..nor has RVP...also how do people know messi wouldn't make it in the prem? has he played there? pure speculation that he wouldn't...too lightweight? david silva anyone? and someone else said ring piece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) sorry lads didn't know the argument was finished i didn't read before i finished that post Edited February 2, 2012 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 couple of points...the reason players like henry and messi have such great service is cos they are great players who get in great teams..never understood why a striker who gets service is looked upon worse than those who don't get it..if you have the great service you don't need to fuck about makin it yourself..that said henry scored a lot of solo goals too and set up quite a lot..would be interested to see his assist stats too...same as messi...as for drogba he was shite for 18 months and hasn't done it as long as henry did it..nor has RVP...also how do people know messi wouldn't make it in the prem? has he played there? pure speculation that he wouldn't...too lightweight? david silva anyone? and someone else said ring piece sorry lads didn't know the argument was finished i didn't read before i finished that post No worries Marco, just reminded me about Henry flopping in Italy, Drogba had to adjust to Mourinho's football somethink Shevchenko and Crespo amongst others couldnt do. Henry needed the free role, couldnt hack it when he had restrictions something RVP and Drogba have both done and very well at that. Rooney said he didnt think Messi would handle the prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 rooney doesn't know where his elbows are so i wouldn't listen to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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