Longest Thread! for Everton Discussion

[AlbanyNYToffee]

21 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Oh yes easily, I have many examples.

City have DeBruyne who is known for creativity, but just watch him play and you’ll see he doesn’t give up on anything.

Alverez must be at the top of the game for giving it his all surely?

Foden is a nightmare for defences as he is one of the best high press in the league.

Liverpool are known for the pressure game. The whole team is set up for it…. Far to many examples to mention.

Spurs have a little known player called Son, who is one of the most energetic players in the league.

Arsenal have several younger players who are hungry and give everything. You may have noticed Martinez, and absolute live wire.

Just a few off the top of my head, but honestly watch a few other matches and see how many joggers get away with it.

 

17 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I don’t think we’re on a different era of football at all. 
I think Everton maybe. 
 

Im in the modern era where work rate destroys teams. Watch the teams at the top and you will easily see they have players who get stuck in, players who don’t give up on lost causes, players who fight for the ball. 
 

I honestly rarely come back from a match, sit on the coach and have a discussion of how we gave it our all…. And should be proud of ourselves. 
And funnily enough….. no one else on the coach seems to be saying it either, or the stands for that matter. 
 

In fact, there was a resounding Boo at full time after Wolves, to go with the boos at half time.

Thanks Shukes definitely see where you're coming from now and I 1000% agree with you on the high press. We're just defining work rate differently I suppose. I wouldn't say any of the players you mentioned (Son is best example and I know the shite has quite a few hard workers) give their all every match. Many have large stretches where they're complete passengers. But this is where we agree on the high press. A good one hides so many of your other flaws and allows players to rest at certain points in the match. As I know you would I'd also love to see us adapt a high press and really challenge teams physically and Frank is trying but it's hard to press with unathletic dogshit. Speaking of that's the other part of your post we're on the same page. The players you mentioned are naturally gifted athletes. We only have a few those. 

I don't think it's particularly popular because we're desperate for success after so many years of tough sledding and more recently relegation battles, but when you look at our recruitment in 17/18 (I'm a huge believer Everton is the only club who could have survived this long), 18/19 and 19/20 it's nothing short of an absolute miracle we're still in the league. For 3 straight years the team got worse on the field, more expensive and had no sell-on value. A club our size, no matter how rich the owner, can't do that. And I know I'm completely beating a dead horse right now and mostly off-topic from where we started above I just can't say it enough. I'm completely done with this game where we pile on a manager after a year and get him sacked (Benitez excluded, the rat). We signed Maupay as a backup to DCL, not expecting to need him for large stretches, not because Frank or Kevin or anyone on the staff thought he was good. The whole world can see he's not. He's the best we could do in our current situation. I have absolutely 0 faith in Moshiri and Kenwright to run the club. I have some faith that Frank and Kevin can improve the team and academy enough to make us a worthy investment for some other rich dude. Maybe, just maybe, the next rich dude will be more competent. Until that day comes I'll be supporting this club with everything I've got and expecting a relegation battle at all times. COYB. 

[Gwlad]

We missed Coady not being eligible to play on Saturday.

[Bailey]

In respect of effort on the pitch, IMO that comes from the manager. I watched the game back again and that first 30ish mins we were so passive it was ridiculous. The odd player pressed but it wasn't as a unit. It wasnt a team swarming around the opposition trying to win the ball, we sit too far off them, give ourselves too much ground to make up and then any decent player can play it through us. Lampard clearly isnt setting this team up to press too high, which he cant because he brought in two slow, low block defenders in the summer.

Two of the players mentioned by @Shukes I have to relatively disagree with. That first 20-30 mins one of the biggest culprits was Gana. He didnt want to know. He was there for a kick about in the park. Then he gradually would really press on one occasion, then leave the next one with acres and by the end of that second half he was chasing everyone. He is someone that should set the tone. He did eventually but it took a lot of warming up.

As for McNeil, he gets through a lot of work for a player in his position. There was one passage where Myko gets caught upfield and instead of Gana dropping in as he should have, it was McNeil that was doing his best to get back in. Furthermore in our better passages of play, he is the one making a move or finding space, including the one that led to the ball from Myko to Gordon. He is still ineffective far too often (who isnt) but it isn't because he isn't trying. 

Our problem is that we just sit too far off teams to start with. The CBs are scared of being caught in behind so they back off. The front 6 players dont press as a unit, and even if they did, opposition teams would just flood the space between midfield and defence. The players don't know whether to stick or twist and its inconsistent from minute to minute and from player to player.

 

[MikeO]

As things stand we move up to 16th today, go Brentford!!

[Romey 1878]

After last night I feel so much better about my season ticket increasing to £600 next season.

Who wouldn't when the football is getting worse and worse while the owner and board continually take the piss?

It'll be incredibly satisfying watching us get smacked by Hull next season.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[Bailey]

The suggestion from that is all of those 8 managers (5 permanent) can't be that bad but there were a lot of different expectations across that period. We would probably happily have Silva, Koeman or Ancellotti back if we knew that we were going to be left with Benitez and Lampard.

Koeman hasnt exactly gone on to be successful and he had issues with Walsh. Im not sure he was really a fit for the club.

Silva was unlucky IMO. He is a solid enough manager but his midfield got decimated and he probably did well when you look ag what he was left with. 

Ancellotti got us in the top half and left.

Benitez was a dreadful fit and washed up with no money.

Lampard was unproven with a side at the wrong end of the table and has massively struggled. 

Two of the others have been caretakers and one was here to quell the threat of relegation. 

We desperately need to work out what our identity is as a football club and work to that. That has to come from the DoF who needs to be left to do his job.

[Gwlad]

Bottom 3 after tonight's results. 

[dunlopp9987]

Reeeeally starting to regret that plane ticket I bought to come out there in late April to see us play Newcastle

[StevO]

The only part of the club we are seeing any stability and progress in? The stadium. 
The clubs side of it is being handled by Colin Chong, a man with years of experience in construction with Laing O’Rourke. You could call him an expert. 
And the actual build is being handled by the builder, Laing O’Rourke, and the architect in a small part, Dan Meis. Both could also be called experts. 
 

The people who run the rest of the club? Not too many experts. 

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

The only part of the club we are seeing any stability and progress in? The stadium. 
The clubs side of it is being handled by Colin Chong, a man with years of experience in construction with Laing O’Rourke. You could call him an expert. 
And the actual build is being handled by the builder, Laing O’Rourke, and the architect in a small part, Dan Meis. Both could also be called experts. 
 

The people who run the rest of the club? Not too many experts. 

This isn't quite right.

The people that employ those experts, are still the board members.

Those board members also employ a lot of qualified people to manage the footballing aspect of the business too.

https://www.evertonfc.com/club/our-people

 

[StevO]

13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

This isn't quite right.

The people that employ those experts, are still the board members.

Those board members also employ a lot of qualified people to manage the footballing aspect of the business too.

https://www.evertonfc.com/club/our-people

 

What bit isn’t quite right? 
 

I think it’s obvious I was talking about the running of the club, not the football staff. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

What bit isn’t quite right? 
 

I think it’s obvious I was talking about the running of the club, not the football staff. 

I didn't think it was obvious

[dunlopp9987]

Well ESPN has us finally succumbing and going down

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4845306/predicting-the-premier-league-relegation-battle-has-evertons-luck-finally-run-out-under-frank-lampard

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

What bit isn’t quite right? 
 

I think it’s obvious I was talking about the running of the club, not the football staff. 

Those running the club also dont know how to build stadiums but you are happy that they have appointed experts to do so. 

Those runnning the club also dont know how to manage football clubs however they have also appointed a number of experts to do so.

What is different about our management structure when compared to the other clubs in the league. 

It wasn't that long ago that every club wanted to be run like Southampton. Good academy, bringing in talent at a low cost and selling it high. Truth is they got lucky with the appointment of one brilliant manager followed by another who could maintain that level. Once they left it has all fallen down. 

Im not quite sure what that had to do with your OP btw but it popped into my head as I was replying

 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Those running the club also dont know how to build stadiums but you are happy that they have appointed experts to do so. 

Those runnning the club also dont know how to manage football clubs however they have also appointed a number of experts to do so.

What is different about our management structure when compared to the other clubs in the league. 

It wasn't that long ago that every club wanted to be run like Southampton. Good academy, bringing in talent at a low cost and selling it high. Truth is they got lucky with the appointment of one brilliant manager followed by another who could maintain that level. Once they left it has all fallen down. 

Im not quite sure what that had to do with your OP btw but it popped into my head as I was replying

 

Exactly, they don’t know how to build a stadium so they got experts. I’m made up about that. I wish Moshiri hired more experts.

Which experts have they appointed? 
Bill?  His area of expertise is theatre. Yet our owner has left him in position of chairman which he has overseen a decline over decades.

Denise? Is she an expert in the field of running a football club? She has overseen years of decline and came into the job without prior experience.

Sharpy? What’s his credentials?

Who are the number of experts that have been appointed that you talk about? In the coaching staff yeah, but in the business side of things? It’s the poorly run business that’s dragged us down with the effect it’s had on the squad and the structure at the club.

We have three Evertonians at board level. Lovely. But how about people with experience of running successful football clubs? Why would it be a bad thing to have a CEO with experience running a good club? Or a chairman who has experience and isn’t a massively divisive figure? Why would that be so bad?

Southampton did really well with Les Reid running the football side of things, they built a structure to the club, build the stadium and training ground, did well with their academy. They have had a poor run over the last few years, but I’m still convinced they are better run than we are. They kept replacing top talent with lower quality and are paying the price. We are in the same boat.

[StevO]

5 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Well ESPN has us finally succumbing and going down

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4845306/predicting-the-premier-league-relegation-battle-has-evertons-luck-finally-run-out-under-frank-lampard

If we start listening to Mark Ogden we’re all in trouble! 

[Shukes]

So as it stands. We want to get rid of the following:

Manager. 
Coaches. 
Owner. 
Chairman. 
Board of Directors. 
DoF. 
Half the squad. 
 

So we’re asking for the club to go into insolvency? 
Shall we start a thread asking people’s opinions on the clubs new name and identity?

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

Exactly, they don’t know how to build a stadium so they got experts. I’m made up about that. I wish Moshiri hired more experts.

Which experts have they appointed? 
Bill?  His area of expertise is theatre. Yet our owner has left him in position of chairman which he has overseen a decline over decades.

Denise? Is she an expert in the field of running a football club? She has overseen years of decline and came into the job without prior experience.

Sharpy? What’s his credentials?

Who are the number of experts that have been appointed that you talk about? In the coaching staff yeah, but in the business side of things? It’s the poorly run business that’s dragged us down with the effect it’s had on the squad and the structure at the club.

We have three Evertonians at board level. Lovely. But how about people with experience of running successful football clubs? Why would it be a bad thing to have a CEO with experience running a good club? Or a chairman who has experience and isn’t a massively divisive figure? Why would that be so bad?

Southampton did really well with Les Reid running the football side of things, they built a structure to the club, build the stadium and training ground, did well with their academy. They have had a poor run over the last few years, but I’m still convinced they are better run than we are. They kept replacing top talent with lower quality and are paying the price. We are in the same boat.

No Bill, Denise and Sharpy are board members. The same board members that appointed those on the stadium side of things.

The experts can be found on this link that I provided earlier:

https://www.evertonfc.com/club/our-people

if they are a better run football club, it isn't showing for them at the moment. They have joined us in a race to the bottom.

I think your last line hits the nail on the head. Whilst commercially there is a lot to improve at the club and Kenwright and Co have so much to answer on that score, the reality of the situation is that since Mohsiri has come in, his previous failings became less important and we had a relative clean slate.

Since Mohsiri has come in we have made a complete mess of the playing side of the club. Being a successful club is simple in practice. Bring in more good players than bad. Bring in more good managers and staff than bad. Bring them in for decent fees and decent wages and that is even better. Piss money up the wall on bad players and/or ill suited managers and you spiral, especially if the owner wants to get involved and undo all the good work those underneath him (the experts) have been trying to do (see the Brands interview after he left).

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/everton-engeverton/story/4846315/everton-footballs-most-unsuccessful-big-club-continue-spiral-of-misery-as-trophy-drought-continues

[Palfy]

20 hours ago, Bailey said:

No Bill, Denise and Sharpy are board members. The same board members that appointed those on the stadium side of things.

The experts can be found on this link that I provided earlier:

https://www.evertonfc.com/club/our-people

if they are a better run football club, it isn't showing for them at the moment. They have joined us in a race to the bottom.

I think your last line hits the nail on the head. Whilst commercially there is a lot to improve at the club and Kenwright and Co have so much to answer on that score, the reality of the situation is that since Mohsiri has come in, his previous failings became less important and we had a relative clean slate.

Since Mohsiri has come in we have made a complete mess of the playing side of the club. Being a successful club is simple in practice. Bring in more good players than bad. Bring in more good managers and staff than bad. Bring them in for decent fees and decent wages and that is even better. Piss money up the wall on bad players and/or ill suited managers and you spiral, especially if the owner wants to get involved and undo all the good work those underneath him (the experts) have been trying to do (see the Brands interview after he left).

 

Also read what Walsh said about Moshiri and Kenwright on the accusation of players, he put forward players who had agreed terms with only to have them declined by Moshiri and Kenwright, and told to go out and get the players they wanted. Imo we have had some experts on the playing side, but they have been undermined by the owner and his directors. 

[nimibankhere]

On 25/12/2014 at 03:52, Hafnia said:

Wife has to pay £3 before even stepping foot in the door, without fuel.

 

Has to pay to park at the hospital she works at and at times has been late due to no parking spaces and the fact that if she just parked anywhere would get a ticket. Late not because she was late, she's always there well before shift but because of the shit set up that means patients suffer.

 

Nursing is a vocation, my wife didn't base her career choice on pay. These bastards in government know that nursing is price inelastic. They don't strike and there will always be people who have that special quality that means they want to nurse.

Yes man nursing is a vocation 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/frank-lampard-what-didnt-ask-25975816

[Wall Writer]

Why do I continue to do it? I see it's a link from the echo, but I still click on it. Then spend the next 5 minutes looking for the actual article (which is of questionable quality to start with) amid the excessive number of instrusive ads and links to other non-articles. The content in the page unreadable as it keeps jumping around as more and more ads keep loading in the place you were trying to read. Fuck that shit. Fuck that site. Rant over.

[Romey 1878]

33 minutes ago, Wall Writer said:

Why do I continue to do it? I see it's a link from the echo, but I still click on it. Then spend the next 5 minutes looking for the actual article (which is of questionable quality to start with) amid the excessive number of instrusive ads and links to other non-articles. The content in the page unreadable as it keeps jumping around as more and more ads keep loading in the place you were trying to read. Fuck that shit. Fuck that site. Rant over.

In the address bar of the article change it to gecko.

You're welcome.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Wall Writer said:

Why do I continue to do it? I see it's a link from the echo, but I still click on it. Then spend the next 5 minutes looking for the actual article (which is of questionable quality to start with) amid the excessive number of instrusive ads and links to other non-articles. The content in the page unreadable as it keeps jumping around as more and more ads keep loading in the place you were trying to read. Fuck that shit. Fuck that site. Rant over.

On iPhone I can get through it in reading view. If I don’t do that the page crashes and reloads so many times due to the ridiculous number of adverts. 
The echo has gone from being a decent local newspaper to being nothing but clickbait to drive advertisers spend. Tragic. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

On iPhone I can get through it in reading view. If I don’t do that the page crashes and reloads so many times due to the ridiculous number of adverts. 
The echo has gone from being a decent local newspaper to being nothing but clickbait to drive advertisers spend. Tragic. 

Advertising the medium that unfortunately runs and undermines the credibility and integrity of much of society, more than we are possibly aware of. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[Gwlad]

EFC the gift that keeps on giving 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Gwlad all over said:

EFC the gift that keeps on giving 

Since our last win every single other league side has a victory. That was October by the way.