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Bobby v Moyes - if you could have moyes back now would you?


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Has anyone ever read the business book "From Good to Great"? It pretty much explains the difference this year. Just one of the principles is to establish a BHAG - a Big Hairy Audacious Goal. Roberto did this at his first press conference - claiming that we could reach the Champions League. He's applying "From Good to Great" principles to a football team.

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Me neither, the current squad(that is performing so well) is made up of players he mostly signed, and we have always had a solid back four under him, But i do think some of the praise is a bit OTT, that's all.

Me neither, the current squad(that is performing so well) is made up of players he mostly signed, and we have always had a solid back four under him, But i do think some of the praise is a bit OTT, that's all.

Solid back four but only Baines overlapped with any menace. His persistence with Hibbert at full back and using Coleman as a project right winger was particularly painful for me so you can imagine how much better I feel currently. Also youth got a chance under Moyes when there were injuries. It gets a proper chance nowadays on merit. Edited by weebittight
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You would think that we never achieved similar but better under Joe Royle, for some reason his achievements are erased because Moyes finished best of the midtable teams repeatedly... For that he expected us to accept as a maximum.

 

Thankfully myself and more than a few others demand more from an Everton manager, survival at times of adversity is an achievement, mediocrity when capable of much more is a failure.

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You would think that we never achieved similar but better under Joe Royle, for some reason his achievements are erased because Moyes finished best of the midtable teams repeatedly... For that he expected us to accept as a maximum.

Thankfully myself and more than a few others demand more from an Everton manager, survival at times of adversity is an achievement, mediocrity when capable of much more is a failure.

achievements, plural? Maybe I'm too young to remember anything but the cup win (don't mean to belittle it, it's the only silverware I've witnessed and was old enough to remember)

 

I'm not saying I accept mediocrity either, I'm grateful because of where we were (below mediocrity) and were we went to (European regulars), under Moyes guidance. It was a necessary step, and whether he was paid to do because it was his job is irrelevant - he changed us for the best which was never guaranteed.

 

But some people just want to hate and refuse to accept truths, because it's inconvenient to their arguments. Before other truths are thrown at me (massive wages, "brainwashing", etc) I recognize them and agree that Moyes in the latter years should've delivered more. But I'll be grateful for the bits before and looking forward to going further with Martinez

Edited by Matt
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I'm grateful for moyes bringing us on just like I'm grateful for Walter smith who kept us in the league aswell. But the one year he got us into the champs league pails to the dissapointments we had with regards to even last year as an example. Going well in the league, threatening the "top four" go to Sunderland who were awful get beat one nil and didn't have a shot on goal. That summed up moyes reign and I'm not even mentioning semi finals/finals when we sat back and just let teams beat us. Oh and the irony of that Sunderland game? He'd already agreed to take over at united.

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I'm grateful for moyes bringing us on just like I'm grateful for Walter smith who kept us in the league aswell. But the one year he got us into the champs league pails to the dissapointments we had with regards to even last year as an example. Going well in the league, threatening the "top four" go to Sunderland who were awful get beat one nil and didn't have a shot on goal. That summed up moyes reign and I'm not even mentioning semi finals/finals when we sat back and just let teams beat us. Oh and the irony of that Sunderland game? He'd already agreed to take over at united.

didnt we just lose 1-0 to Sunderland too? Performance comes second to the result. And we qualified for the Europa League several times too, and you can't ignore the semi finals and the final because it's inconvenient.
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Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board.

 

Point is, Moyes did a good thing 11 years ago and dined out on it for too long. Why when he moved on in such bad taste does he deserve gratitude?!

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Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board.

Point is, Moyes did a good thing 11 years ago and dined out on it for too long. Why when he moved on in such bad taste does he deserve gratitude?!

fair enough, don't remember that.

 

Apologies if I got a bit rude, had stubbed my toe and was not in the greatest moods anyway! I'm not saying be grateful for his whole tenure, just bit grateful for the parts he deserves it. Yes, he's been a prick since he left, and for a year or so before that, but I'd rather concentrate on the good he did and the good Martinez is doing than be bitter, petty and angry about the minority of his bad times....

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achievements, plural? Maybe I'm too young to remember anything but the cup win (don't mean to belittle it, it's the only silverware I've witnessed and was old enough to remember)

 

I'm not saying I accept mediocrity either, I'm grateful because of where we were (below mediocrity) and were we went to (European regulars), under Moyes guidance. It was a necessary step, and whether he was paid to do because it was his job is irrelevant - he changed us for the best which was never guaranteed.

 

But some people just want to hate and refuse to accept truths, because it's inconvenient to their arguments. Before other truths are thrown at me (massive wages, "brainwashing", etc) I recognize them and agree that Moyes in the latter years should've delivered more. But I'll be grateful for the bits before and looking forward to going further with Martinez

 

I would take issue with just one word: "better", not "best".

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Solid back four but only Baines overlapped with any menace. His persistence with Hibbert at full back and using Coleman as a project right winger was particularly painful for me so you can imagine how much better I feel currently. Also youth got a chance under Moyes when there were injuries. It gets a proper chance nowadays on merit.

 

 

Did you miss the entire 2012/13 season?

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As it would appear Manchester United may soon discard of Moyes' services and terminate his employment (I hope he remains in charge for a good many years yet, if only for comedic effect) you have to wonder here his next port of call may be.

 

at no point since Moyes departed have I ever wished for the scots return. Looking good under Martinez, despite that early league cup elimination, and in good position for a cup run and having a realistic chance of european places. Yes the latter was there with Moyes, but this time this club has such opportunity with other objectives. Wouldn't go as far to say Moyes was a bad as Walker or Smith, but in the end, it got to the point where enough was enough and the club was only going down a blind alley. At least now with the new name, there's some level of tangible belief ahead that the club can once again establish itself as a trophy winning side.

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didnt we just lose 1-0 to Sunderland too? Performance comes second to the result. And we qualified for the Europa League several times too, and you can't ignore the semi finals and the final because it's inconvenient.

I just don't get your arguement

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Royle took us from facing relegation to winning the fa cup, going into Europe and finishing 6th next season... He was on brink of big things before he fell out with the board.

 

 

Said somewhere before that 95-96 was and still is my favourite season as an Evertonain - we were brilliant... favourite player - Joe Parkinson. We missed out on Europe to Arsenal on the final day, remember listening for the scores on 5 live after seeing us beat Villa in the brand spanking new Park End! Royle had Torre Andre Flo lined up for £1m (ish) to play alongside Big Dunc (and another Norwegian bloke too) - Johnson blocked this, Royle was soon gone. Sure he had a deal for Dublin lined up previously too - £1m again!

 

I have shown a lot of gratitude to the Moyes era but what I will say is this season is the first, playing wise, which is matching up to that 95-96 season. Finishing 4th, euro runs and Wembley trips were all brilliant under Moyes but that 95-96 season still stands out for style and enjoyment of watching EFC.

 

Let's judge Martinez over the season though... he'd be the first to admit that he hasn't achieved anything yet. Moyes left him a fantastic platform on which Roberto is building on with style - he's 20 odd games into a 5 year plan!

 

Finally, James McCarthy reminds me so much of Joe Parkinson - Joe Parkinson could have gone so much further, no joke for people who didn't have the pleasure to watch him but he was in the Roy Keane bracket and on the brink of a first England cap for his career to be cruelly cut short.

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Who didn't? But have to say I was a John Ebbrell man myself.

 

Me too I actually had a few non alcoholic pints with him and Watson in the away end at the Nuremberg game away in 2007 top blokes both of them. Loved it when he threw those crunching tackles, shit football or not I have very fond memories of the dark 90's.

 

Just spotted my error there I was talking about Parkinson!

Edited by GoldfishMemory
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When I was deciding which school to attend, the deputy head wanted me to join his school because I'm pretty tall/was pretty well built for my age and he felt I'd enjoy rugby, when I told him I was more interested in football, he told me pupils also become footballers, the latest being John Ebbrell. I was sold on the school from that moment on. :D

 

On the Metro article, I read something similar in the Daily Mail yesterday. To sum up, it said David Moyes did well at Everton but ultimately his defensive attitude held the club back, now Martinez has come along and changed mentality and Everton are reaping the benefits.

 

That in itself, isn't too bad but the article went on and on and seemed intent on reducing credibility with fans. There were times when Moyes spoke and I felt it got taken out of context by those looking to to vilify him.

 

I like Martinez but don't want to get carried away, we've had just over half a season with him.

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When I was deciding which school to attend, the deputy head wanted me to join his school because I'm pretty tall/was pretty well built for my age and he felt I'd enjoy rugby, when I told him I was more interested in football, he told me pupils also become footballers, the latest being John Ebbrell. I was sold on the school from that moment on. :D

 

On the Metro article, I read something similar in the Daily Mail yesterday. To sum up, it said David Moyes did well at Everton but ultimately his defensive attitude held the club back, now Martinez has come along and changed mentality and Everton are reaping the benefits.

 

That in itself, isn't too bad but the article went on and on and seemed intent on reducing credibility with fans. There were times when Moyes spoke and I felt it got taken out of context by those looking to to vilify him.

 

I like Martinez but don't want to get carried away, we've had just over half a season with him.

Wirral Grammar boy eh! John Ebbrell is probably the only Everton player I've met who recognises me and stops to chat. A proper nice bloke.

 

He was so good as a young lad, played for a youth team I started out for... Eastham blades. His goalscoring record was phenomenal, off he went to lilleshall. He was on the trajectory to be an England regular, I think if managed differently he could have been a more complete box to box midfielder rather than a defensive mid.

 

Back to Moyes, here's sahas view.http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-saha-man-united-fans-should-get-used-moyes-defensive-tactics-14010874695

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