Toffee_in_LA Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Seconded. Don't let anything on to Lukaku and start Jelly. If he's got it, then great, if not, Lukaku is no stranger to the super sub role and we shift Jelly afterwards. I'm pretty split on this tbh. On one hand it would be nice to have him firing again and Lukaku would be a great sub. On the other, I don't want this to become a weekly debate between whether we keep Jelly or not, not to mention I don't want his start costing us point down the line. Hard for me to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 He needs to go, and today's performance maybe increased his price. I'd much rather plan for the future than linger in the past. markjazzbassist and marcus jones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 We need another striker in this window even if Jelavic stays so I wouldnt let hom go until we have 2 forwards in plaace to replace him In an ideal world I would prefer , even then, to send him out on loan because if he does get his form and his confidence back he is a top class finisher and the squad isnt exactly bursting at the seems with decent strikers at the moment Romey 1878 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) This whole situation for me makes the lone transfer even stranger. Obviously lukkaku wasn't in the picture but as I said before 6mil on Kobe was a strange one. We need a striker at the 10-20 mil level. Obviously lukkaku would be the preferred option but if not we need proven ability. Remy would be a good option if we could afford him. Edited January 5, 2014 by Memmaclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 This whole situation for me makes the lone transfer even stranger. Obviously lukkaku wasn't in the picture but as I said before 6mil on Kobe was a strange one. We need a striker at the 10-20 mil level. Obviously lukkaku would be the preferred option but if not we need proven ability. Remy would be a good option if we could afford him. A+ for spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof_It_Nev Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 ^ How can you say we need a striker at the 10-20m level? If a top striker became available for a couple of mil because he only had a year left on his contract you wouldn't want him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Still I think it should buy him some time. I'd give him a full run out against Norwhich before making any decisions on his future. That's fair enough then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 His first goal was a very good goal, something we'd see him do when he arrived here. His second, was right place right time, that "strikers instinct". I know somewhere in there he can finish. What he did when he arrived at Everton was not luck. The fact that in 46 games he has scored 7 goals however (according to Wikipedia) is astonishingly bad. I torn on this one, I loved him when he arrived, watching him play was a delight. I say lets give him a couple more games and see what he can do. I'd be pissed off if he went to a smaller club and started firing on all cylinders again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Palace interested. Willing to pay 3 mil for him. I think its to cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Palace interested. Willing to pay 3 mil for him. I think its to cheap Too good for them. I think he'd reject a move there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Agreed, needs to be AT LEAST £5m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I would like to see Jelavic stay at Everton. I think he will find his feet again but just needs time. He scored two at QPR and showed everyone that the old Jela is still in there......somewhere. If I was Martinez I would be seriously considering starting Jela instead of Lukaku against Norwich. It would be a win win, if he scored great gives Lukaku competition. Give him an hour against Norwich see what he can do. I am not giving up on the lad yet he still has it in him somewhere. Romey 1878 and Lowensda 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I would like to see Jelavic stay at Everton. I think he will find his feet again but just needs time. He scored two at QPR and showed everyone that the old Jela is still in there......somewhere. If I was Martinez I would be seriously considering starting Jela instead of Lukaku against Norwich. It would be a win win, if he scored great gives Lukaku competition. Give him an hour against Norwich see what he can do. I am not giving up on the lad yet he still has it in him somewhere. I agree I think Lukaku would benefit from the competition, he hasnt exactly been pulling up trees lately but at the moment he knows his place is safe Romey 1878 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof_It_Nev Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Form is temporary, class is permanent. Romey 1878 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I hope he can come back, I just don't see it, but yeah lukaku needs a bit of a push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 3 million has got to be a bit of a joke though hasn't it? We signed him for 6 million so we should surely be looking to make money on him around 6-8 million is more accurate based on the ability he has and the fact we took the risk to sign him. He clearly has the talent and 3 million is an insult to Jelly a striker of his calibre is worth a lot more. I would rather we kept him to be honest because I personally think he can be that £20 million pound striker we all know he can be. Terrific player with a loss of form. 3 million? You must be joking. Lukaku hasn't been that brilliant and time to give Jelly a good run in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Jelavic still has something to offer and (in todays exaggerated and blown out of all proportion transfer values) wouldn't allow him to go for such a derisory price. Three million pounds for a sale ? They can fuck off with that - I'd be genuinely disappointed if we couldn't bring in Ten such is the inflated prices of todays market. Yes he's been disappointing often enough, but know he can contribute and be a good striker. I'd like to keep faith with him for a while longer, but if he has to go, at least make it respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Jelavic still has something to offer and (in todays exaggerated and blown out of all proportion transfer values) wouldn't allow him to go for such a derisory price. Three million pounds for a sale ? They can fuck off with that - I'd be genuinely disappointed if we couldn't bring in Ten such is the inflated prices of todays market. Yes he's been disappointing often enough, but know he can contribute and be a good striker. I'd like to keep faith with him for a while longer, but if he has to go, at least make it respectable. Couldn't agree more, with the inflated prices these days 10 million is still a good deal for any club wanting to buy him. Can you imagine Swansea accepting 3 million for Michu or Newcastle accepting 3 million for Cisse etc who have all had similar careers to Jelly's in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 3 million has got to be a bit of a joke though hasn't it? We signed him for 6 million so we should surely be looking to make money on him around 6-8 million is more accurate based on the ability he has and the fact we took the risk to sign him. He clearly has the talent and 3 million is an insult to Jelly a striker of his calibre is worth a lot more. Forget what we paid for him. The issue is how much is he worth today as a player - taking into account his abilities, his form, and the remaining time on his contract. Would Everton pay 6-8m for Jelavic if he was playing, for example, for Stoke? No way! So why do you think other teams will pay that much for him? Maybe we would pay 3m - which makes the current bid understandable. Consider Andy Carroll. Should Liverpool have held out for 35m from West Ham? What about Aidan McGeady? Should Spartak hold out for 9.5m? Of course not! You win some and you lose some. Just like it's a big mistake to hold on to losing stocks in the hope their price will bounce back, it's a big mistake to expect the value of some players to return to what you paid for them. The real question to ask is: Can we get more from Jelavic than we can get from another player we could buy for 3m? If not, sell and buy. Hoof_It_Nev and Quinn31 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I do agree with Steve. If we were offering 6 to 8m for him i would be questioning our sanity on his form. 4 to 5m would seem a fair price for him.. 3 a bit too low. I would just rather he stayed because even when he has played and not scored i have always been impressed that he keeps going and keeps shooting. When he does score he looks happy and i do feel that a starting place on saturday would give him a huge confidence boost. If he managed to knock a couple of goals in it could ignite him. Did you see how relaxed he looked against QPR after that first goal went in? thats the old Jelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I still think he's a good striker and hasn't done himself justice over the last eighteen months. He's not as good as he was producing when he first joined, but equally he's not as bad as he's looked recently. He showed he had ability even before he joined Rangers and he still has a part to play for you I feel. I think he's perfectly adequate as a back up striker for Lukaku and whoever replaces him in future. Edited January 9, 2014 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Still think this is a massive shame. Would rather get him firing again. Imagine him on form alongside Lukaku 352/3412? Take as leaf out of the Serie A sides and Liverpool's book? --------------------Howard------------------- -----------Alcaraz -Jagielka- Distin-------- --Coleman ---Barry---McCarthy - Oviedo/Baines ----------------------Barkley----------------- ---------------Jela -- Lukaku--------------- You have some of the best attacking and most energetic full-backs in the league, why not use them as wing-backs? It leaves guys like Pienaar, Mirallas and Deulofeu out but you can always change systems mid-game. Edited January 9, 2014 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 352/3412? Take as leaf out of the Serie A sides and Liverpool's book? --------------------Howard------------------- -----------Alcaraz -Jagielka- Distin-------- --Coleman ---Barry---McCarthy - Oviedo/Baines ----------------------Barkley----------------- ---------------Jela -- Lukaku--------------- You have some of the best attacking and most energetic full-backs in the league, why not use them as wing-backs? It leaves guys like Pienaar, Mirallas and Deulofeu out but you can always change systems mid-game. They pretty much play like wing backs anyway. Most of the time Barry and McCarthy both sit deep protecting the middle with Jags and Distin split apart quite widely so they can cover in wide areas if needed. Then we have the full backs providing width so the actual wide players can play inside a bit to create overloads there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 They pretty much play like wing backs anyway. Most of the time Barry and McCarthy both sit deep protecting the middle with Jags and Distin split apart quite widely so they can cover in wide areas if needed. Then we have the full backs providing width so the actual wide players can play inside a bit to create overloads there. That's a good point - I guess you pretty much play that way anyway. We all know that formations are not rigid - they are simply starting positions and are flexible within games. However, the main difference is that you'd be able to get two strikers on the park by having an extra striker and Centre back in place of the two natural wingers (who as you say come inside and create overloads there and space outside). Essentially I am saying sacrifice that for an extra CB and an extra forward. I tend to think that the only way to play with two strikers in the modern game is 352 as 442 seems obsolete. I was really just posting an idea as HoofItNev had commented about getting both Jelavic and Lukaku on the park at the same time. However, as you say, you effectively function as Martinez's Wigan did anyway - just at a better level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 That's a good point - I guess you pretty much play that way anyway. We all know that formations are not rigid - they are simply starting positions and are flexible within games. However, the main difference is that you'd be able to get two strikers on the park by having an extra striker and Centre back in place of the two natural wingers (who as you say come inside and create overloads there and space outside). Essentially I am saying sacrifice that for an extra CB and an extra forward. I tend to think that the only way to play with two strikers in the modern game is 352 as 442 seems obsolete. I was really just posting an idea as HoofItNev had commented about getting both Jelavic and Lukaku on the park at the same time. However, as you say, you effectively function as Martinez's Wigan did anyway - just at a better level. A lot of teams are back to playing 4-4-2 aren't they? Even the top sides: Negredo-Aguero, Suarez-Sturridge, van Persie-Rooney, etc. In Italy a lot of sides play without wingers, in either 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-1-2 or whatever, so 3-5-2's can be succesful there. But I don't really think 3-5-2 would work in England as a lot of sides still play wingers and play on the counter attack. They'd continually have numbers out wide and exploit that. If your wing back covers the winger, there's no one left to cover the full back. I don't really feel the need to get two strikers on anyway as I think our wide players are all better players than our second striker, but it's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I am sure Jellyfish will come good again myself. I would hate it if he did that after we sell him to an opposition team and he buries us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 A lot of teams are back to playing 4-4-2 aren't they? Even the top sides: Negredo-Aguero, Suarez-Sturridge, van Persie-Rooney, etc. In Italy a lot of sides play without wingers, in either 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-1-2 or whatever, so 3-5-2's can be succesful there. But I don't really think 3-5-2 would work in England as a lot of sides still play wingers and play on the counter attack. They'd continually have numbers out wide and exploit that. If your wing back covers the winger, there's no one left to cover the full back. I don't really feel the need to get two strikers on anyway as I think our wide players are all better players than our second striker, but it's an interesting thought experiment nonetheless of course. First, I agree with your second paragraph. I think your system is fine as it is and Jelavic should be the back-up striker, but I just saw the post from HoofItNev and saw an opportunity for some tactical debate, which I always enjoy. You first paragraph makes a lot of sense, although in a 352 typically there may be a holding mf, a box-to-box player and a creator (think Pirlo, Vidal and Pogba at Juve, although that's a bit different as Pirlo is actually the creator as a regista). City played 442 but it's not really a typical 442 as Nasri and Silva never hold the width and Aguero or Negredo typically drop back to make a three man mf when out of possession. I accept though that Navas is the traditional winger when he plays. Liverpool play 352 generally which is how they get two men in attack, and Man U fans have been bemoaning their 'outdated' 442 for years. Still, you make a good point in that a lot of teams play a typical British style so perhaps it wouldn't be wise for you to start messing with it. However, on the flip side, they would have to deal with something they may not be used to also and it has paid dividends for Liverpool. I'm splitting hairs a bit as you function in a similar manner now, as you already said. However, I've enjoyed the discussion and you make good points. Going offline now but thanks for the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 According to one source, the asking price is 4.5m - but only after we bring in a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Sky Sports NewsVerified account@SkySportsNews Breaking News: Hull agree a fee with Everton for Nikica Jelavic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 on the everton facebook too..looks like he's gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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