duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Add in that:- Barkley would be at Tranmere, Heitinga would be Gibson's cover, Deulofeu would be at Lazio, fellaini would be strolling round the goodison pitch and we would be doing the same old dance. Lol yeah ok add that in if you like but I'm not too sure how Moyes would have managed to sign Deulofeu for Lazio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Im a nice calm laid back type of guy...but you are testing me here!!! So, you want me to 'get right into it'? I've said it before, how the hell can you compare a 10/11 year era to a 9 month one?!!! You say to talk about 'the business end, cup runs and league positions'....Martinez hasnt had a full season yet!!!For fucks sake...how can that be compared?!!! Tell you what a fair comparison is...in 10 years time!!! Im no Moyes hater by the way. But Im sick of the constant shitty little comparisons. Thanks Moyes for what you did...for the first 7/8 years...but it was no 'golden era'. We still won fuck all. Thanks for doing what any football manager is supposed to do. The things I have noticed so far under Martinez is the more positive approach, the 'can do' attitude rather than the 'ooooh, might do, its going to be really difficult, probably cant' attitude. And thats from the players too. The football is a work in progress, and is progressing nicely. The average attendances are as high as they have been for many years. Honestly, I just cant see why some of you are trying to pick this apart after just 9 months. Its not proper support and Im glad its in the minority. It will never be a fair comparison because Martinez inherited a top 6 side full of internationals. Moyes inherited relegation fodder and built from scratch. To be quite honest I'm bored of people saying we are doing "better" under Martinez. Quite clearly we aren't. The only thing that is better is the brand football and without financial input I can't see us doing better than Moyes ever did in the league. One thing I do think is Martinez will get that elusive trophy at some point. That's down to him being seemingly fearless in attack. It's not picking it apart it's actually looking at the facts and realising we actually aren't yet ready to go to the next level and I've also witnessed shit performances this season too. The stats also show we aren't creating as many chances as we were under Moyes (that's with all this wonderful football). They show we are completing slightly more passes and that's about it. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Ok, lets look at the 'business end' After game 26 2012/13... Pos: 6th, Pts: 42 (W 10, D 12, L 4), F: 40, A: 32 (+8) Same games 2013/14... Pos: 7th, Pts: 45 (W 12, D 9, L 5), F: 37, A: 27 (+10) * The teams above have all played one game more in 2013/14 * The points gained in 2013/14 would have seen us in 5th in 2012/13 *49 points was enough to get you 3rd in 2012/13, in 2013/14 you would be 6th *This is why the whole topic is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I reckon we would probably have been about 7th in the league, we would probably have pathetically capitulated in the league cup and maybe even made it to the QF of the FA Cup We would have started out with CL aspirations but they would have evaporated rapidly at the first sight of a few injuries The possession stats wouldn't have been as good though ! That sounds very familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 ......Cotto, I agree 100% about the financial bit. But now feel you are changing your angles from what your original intentions where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 ......Cotto, I agree 100% about the financial bit. But now feel you are changing your angles from what your original intentions where. I'm not changing my angles. We will always be same old Everton. We aren't a better side under Martinez like the media will have you believe. We are just more easy on the eye (better to watch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm not changing my angles. We will always be same old Everton. We aren't a better side under Martinez like the media will have you believe. We are just more easy on the eye (better to watch). But we have more points in the league? And we have a better calibre of player? And we attract more to Goodison Park? And we are more positive? And, as you say, we are easier on the eye? So what else do you think we need to be a better side in your eyes? And a genuine question too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Realist?? Penknives to gun fights, trying to hold on to 1-0 leads, surrendering to a shocking Liverpool team at wembley. Telling people that top10 is a great achievement for a club like Everton??? Here's the reality - Moyes was a negatively, tactically limited dour manager who's self serving nature earned him a fortune from this club. I think you are a WUM. Fans like you don't deserve to have a manager like Martinez, probably best off supporting a Sam Allardyce team. Haf you always home in on the Moyes comments about penknives to gun fights and top 10 being an achievement . Has it ever occurred to you that he was saying those things to dampen down expectation to take the pressure off the players? I bet he didn't mean a word of it and I bet it wasn't the kind of thing he was saying in the dressing room Our team spirit is renowned and you don't get that if the players aren't fully behind the manager. Players have even backed him after he has gone, Distin stating the winning mentality has always been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 But we have more points in the league? And we have a better calibre of player? And we attract more to Goodison Park? And we are more positive? And, as you say, we are easier on the eye? So what else do you think we need to be a better side in your eyes? And a genuine question too. We need a lot better "squad" players. I also think there is a bigger gulf in class of teams below the top 9. It would be interesting to check difference in points this season in the bottom half of the table. Also I'm sure Moyes attracted a lot more to Goodison in his first season. It's called a new era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Anyone who thinks we havent progressed this year under Martinez should watch that first half Utd performance. Very reminiscent of us last year away from home. No intensity, no real organisation and whats worse is that they dont seem to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Anyone who thinks we havent progressed this year under Martinez should watch that first half Utd performance. Very reminiscent of us last year away from home. No intensity, no real organisation and whats worse is that they dont seem to care. What about our first game of the season when we played United off the park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 What about our first game of the season when we played United off the park? You mean hit it to fellaini every long ball??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 One occasion... what about the other 18 league games and cup games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 You mean hit it to fellaini every long ball??? That was a great night of football? No? Goodison not bouncing? Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Anyone who thinks we havent progressed this year under Martinez should watch that first half Utd performance. Very reminiscent of us last year away from home. No intensity, no real organisation and whats worse is that they dont seem to care. Roy Keane looks bemused. They are shite, horrible to watch. Olympiakos look average but should be 2-3 up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 One occasion... what about the other 18 league games and cup games? Exactly. He's just hankering for his old gaffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Haf ignores my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 You mean hit it to fellaini every long ball???but still won, a strategy that worked in that game.... Just like this season in their backyard, where we passed it around aimlessly a lot of the time. Still won. Look at the table now; Everton 45 points playing pretty, United 45 points playing ugly. Different approaches to games, same points. Says that neither tactic is perfect to me.... For those who say we've come on a great deal, you're wrong. We are still in the same position we usually end up at because of injuries, bad luck, individual cockups. Still out of the League Cup too early, still bottled our game at Anfield, still going to miss out on a CL place despite having the opportunity to make it by taking control... For those who say nothing's changed, we've stayed at the same level, you're wrong. We attack more, we have a positive feel, and we can be more proud of how we play than before. We are less frustrating and more exciting. Most important of all, which is why this thread initially was a load of nonsense - we are in a transition phase! We need this balance I mentioned of mixing ugly and pretty, because as the league table shows, neither work on their own. The big difference is Martinez will more likely adapt his game, and slowly change the squad with his players. That's why it's not the "same old Everton", because just like when Moyes took over, there's a breath of fresh air filled with optimism, which is something that's long been missing. Work in progress, and early signs are much more encouraging MC11, Sibdane and Ant1979 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 We are the same but better on the eye. I'll take that all day long whilst sloppy bollocks upstairs doesn't invest heavily in the team to take the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 We need a lot better "squad" players. I also think there is a bigger gulf in class of teams below the top 9. It would be interesting to check difference in points this season in the bottom half of the table. Also I'm sure Moyes attracted a lot more to Goodison in his first season. It's called a new era. No no no....not a chance. Your clutching at straws with that below top 9 malarkey. There is absolutely no way that can be defined by us mere mortals. Attendance wise, the first 2 years it was high. But guess what? Who emerged that everyone wanted to watch in those same 2 years? Wayne Rooney. Guess what happened when he was sold? Attendances fell again. Tough one to call that if Im honest. So, according to you all we need is better squad players. Fair enough, I agree. But that just puts another nail in the coffin for a lot of your other comments. Building a proper squad of better players may take a few years, not 9 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Haf ignores my post. Can't be arsed with your posts any longer. Its like debating with a 10 year old. You may find others doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 To be fair we were excellent that night, really good effort. Shame it was our best performance of the season. Plus I did say in my OP about away games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Look, I agree with what Matt is saying, a fair bit if what Haf is saying (tho he does seem a bit strong in the anti moyes way at times!!!). But the tone of this thread, mainly set by the thread starter, has been to compare the hell out of 2 eras at the club. One 11 years long...one 9 months long. Its pointless. We are just fucking each other over, grabbing at every slight stat, quote and whatever. The tone should be, quite rightly, how we may struggle to go any further 'financially'...but then thats not to blame any era, thats just where we are due to thousands of reasons going back many years. Its just going round in circles now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Can't be arsed with your posts any longer. Its like debating with a 10 year old. You may find others doing the same. I still havent given up on the lad...tho I am a dying breed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 but still won, a strategy that worked in that game.... Just like this season in their backyard, where we passed it around aimlessly a lot of the time. Still won. Look at the table now; Everton 45 points playing pretty, United 45 points playing ugly. Different approaches to games, same points. Says that neither tactic is perfect to me.... For those who say we've come on a great deal, you're wrong. We are still in the same position we usually end up at because of injuries, bad luck, individual cockups. Still out of the League Cup too early, still bottled our game at Anfield, still going to miss out on a CL place despite having the opportunity to make it by taking control... For those who say nothing's changed, we've stayed at the same level, you're wrong. We attack more, we have a positive feel, and we can be more proud of how we play than before. We are less frustrating and more exciting. Most important of all, which is why this thread initially was a load of nonsense - we are in a transition phase! We need this balance I mentioned of mixing ugly and pretty, because as the league table shows, neither work on their own. The big difference is Martinez will more likely adapt his game, and slowly change the squad with his players. That's why it's not the "same old Everton", because just like when Moyes took over, there's a breath of fresh air filled with optimism, which is something that's long been missing. Work in progress, and early signs are much more encouraging Exactamundo ! Second of your posts tonight that have well and truly hit the nail on the head There is plenty to be positive about no doubt about that, but are we any nearer to cracking the top 4? Nah Have we progressed? I don't think we can truly answer that until after the next transfer window I know he wasn't exactly pulling up trees but since we lost Lukaku we have looked toothless and I doubt he will be here next year so that's a big concern I'm sure Roberto has something up his sleeve, but then I thought that in January, I'm concerned that we need a major overhaul of the squad in a World Cup year I personally don't think much has changed or is likely to change results wise and the reason I think that way is because we can't compete financially I love Roberto's positivity and I love the way the club is being run at the moment and I live in hope that we have areal chance of winning the FA Cup sometime soon. Already written off any chance of us ever having a run in the league cup under Martinez I think things are as good as they possibly could be at the moment and I love the way Roberto is buying into the entire ethos of Everton Football Club But I also hate the way people try to rewrite history and ignore anything Moyes did and as soon as someone tries to argue that we were akin to Stoke City and only played hoofball then I'm sorry but I think they are talking out of their arses and I rapidly lose interest Lol I'm also loving Haf getting pissed off with someone's negativity . How things change! Sibdane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I havent read anyone comparing us to Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 No no no....not a chance. Your clutching at straws with that below top 9 malarkey. There is absolutely no way that can be defined by us mere mortals. Attendance wise, the first 2 years it was high. But guess what? Who emerged that everyone wanted to watch in those same 2 years? Wayne Rooney. Guess what happened when he was sold? Attendances fell again. Tough one to call that if Im honest. So, according to you all we need is better squad players. Fair enough, I agree. But that just puts another nail in the coffin for a lot of your other comments. Building a proper squad of better players may take a few years, not 9 months. The Bold: clutching at straws...pot kettle? Please come back with the difference of points below the top 10 compared to last season. Bet it looked different down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Don't think u can compare man utd to Everton just cause of points matt. They have had the benefits of spending £65,000,000 on two players. Liverpool have had an extraordinary season and if we win our game in hand we'll only be 8 points off them. Half glass full matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Bold: clutching at straws...pot kettle? Please come back with the difference of points below the top 10 compared to last season. Bet it looked different down there. Clutching at straws? Well, yeah, I just about admitted that when I said 'its a tough one to call to be honest'. Tell you what though, you have got comedy value. Asking me to come back with last seasons bottom half points or whatever?!!! Can someone help me out here, I think I am losing the plot!!! I've just found me lemon curd in the chimney chatting to a fox in a thong and bra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 agreed (i just agreed with cotto, is the world ending??). but seriously i don't think the big guys work well in the RM system. I fast clinical striker who links up well would be best in my opinion. I agree with him too (although I don't consider Lukaku a lump), after thinking he was talking nonsense in the other thread. I think he's bang on that with the way Everton play, they need a fast, nippy striker who is technically strong, thrives on through balls and can also link play if necessary. it's strange how you can agree with someone on one football issue but be totally against them in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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