Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Bold: clutching at straws...pot kettle? Please come back with the difference of points below the top 10 compared to last season. Bet it looked different down there. Damn it!!! I couldn't resist!!!! Last season the bottom 10 teams had accumalated 268 points. This season, they have 259 (although 2 teams have a game in hand). I look forward to having a laugh at how you twist and turn this to be of any actual relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I agree with him too (although I don't consider Lukaku a lump), after thinking he was talking nonsense in the other thread. I think he's bang on that with the way Everton play, they need a fast, nippy striker who is technically strong, thrives on through balls and can also link play if necessary. it's strange how you can agree with someone on one football issue but be totally against them in another. Because the bloke does have some good points at times, he just ruins it with total bollocks at all other times. That's why I haven't given up going toe to toe with him yet!!! Haha!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Because the bloke does have some good points at times, he just ruins it with total bollocks at all other times. That's why I haven't given up going toe to toe with him yet!!! Haha!!!! Hahaha, to be fair I think we're all like that - make sense on some topics and talk complete tits on others. I guess it's a matter of perception, and we are all biased - it's rare for someone to go 'well, it's a good point even though I disagree'. Football fans when posting on the internet eh?! We can be a right bunch of drama queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hahaha, to be fair I think we're all like that - make sense on some topics and talk complete tits on others. I guess it's a matter of perception, and we are all biased - it's rare for someone to go 'well, it's a good point even though I disagree'. Football fans when posting on the internet eh?! We can be a right bunch of drama queens. Hahaha!!!! We definately are. Yet again....I'm off to bed!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I havent read anyone comparing us to Stoke. Lol but your happy to accept we only ever played hoofball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 You get side tracked into talking bollocks. It's opinion at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I havent read anyone comparing us to Stoke. Think it was the shites captain fantastic after we frustrated them. Don't think u can compare man utd to Everton just cause of points matt. They have had the benefits of spending £65,000,000 on two players. Liverpool have had an extraordinary season and if we win our game in hand we'll only be 8 points off them. Half glass full matt. Not comparing teams so much Brett, more that whatever tactics are being played, theres currently no difference between the 2. Felli has only played 9 games total, so theres 30m we dont have to count, and Mata 4 so I dont see the argument there. Theyve got the vast majority of points without either of the big buys. With the exception of De Gea, Rooney, RVP and Mata I dont think any of the rest would get in our team. Liverpool have had an exception season, but even when they finished 2nd to Utd 7-8 years ago, I dont remember us being rolled over in quite such an embarrassing manner at Anfield. Still, thats only 1 of a handful of mistakes made so far, but one that has reoccurred for years. Despite that, and as Ive mentioned a few times, Im very optimistic going forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Add in that:- Barkley would be at Tranmere, Heitinga would be Gibson's cover, Deulofeu would be at Lazio, fellaini would be strolling round the goodison pitch and we would be doing the same old dance. think you talk shit sometimes haf but this didn't half make me chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 This thread is like a car wreck. I shouldn't look, I should do the right thing and just ignore it.... but I can't help looking anyway :S GoodisonRoad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I cant understand why people are so enraged about this thread, its a pretty valid argument IMO MC11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I cant understand why people are so enraged about this thread, its a pretty valid argument IMO Probably up there with "martinez won't last the season" - its a ridiculous title. "Same old Everton" - the changes that have been apparent in the past 9 months have been startling. It a pathetic thread designed to pick holes in the new Everton we are seeing to someway justify that the "Old way with Moyes" wasn't so wrong. Its an evolution not revolution, moyes had 11 years to evolve and didn't. We now have to endure this thread seeking the answers as to why Martinez hasn't revolutionised in a fraction of the time that Moyes didn't even evolve??? You would think our ex manager was doing a fine job over at Old Trafford. Romey 1878, GoodisonRoad and Ant1979 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I cant understand why people are so enraged about this thread, its a pretty valid argument IMO I'm not enraged I just cringe. There are some valid arguments mixed in too, you're right. But the main valid arguments are over the financial inequality at the top end of the league, so why be negative over something we can't affect? I'm not aiming that at you by the way. If we accept (as we must, it's irrefutable), that at least 6 teams have bigger wage and transfer budgets; then surely we should be positive that we're knocking at the door, at the same time playing the game the right way. I agree that the summer transfer window will be hugely important, I just think negativity after only 9 months is ridiculous. I personally think perspective is needed, i.e. what league position / level of performance would people have taken at the beginning of the season, bearing in mind it's a season of transition. As other people have noted, I think it's a testament to how the club has moved on that we're gutted to lose at Stamford Bridge, and more importantly didn't deserve to. Took the game to the league leaders and were unlucky. Exciting times I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Probably up there with "martinez won't last the season" - its a ridiculous title. "Same old Everton" - the changes that have been apparent in the past 9 months have been startling. It a pathetic thread designed to pick holes in the new Everton we are seeing to someway justify that the "Old way with Moyes" wasn't so wrong. Its an evolution not revolution, moyes had 11 years to evolve and didn't. We now have to endure this thread seeking the answers as to why Martinez hasn't revolutionised in a fraction of the time that Moyes didn't even evolve??? You would think our ex manager was doing a fine job over at Old Trafford. For me this thread has got fuck all to do with Moyes and whether you like it or not results wise nothing much has changed therefore I think its perfectly reasonable to debate it The only hole I would pick about the new regime is that we havent got the financial clout to compete at the top, something else that hasnt changed! Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Probably up there with "martinez won't last the season" - its a ridiculous title. "Same old Everton" - the changes that have been apparent in the past 9 months have been startling. It a pathetic thread designed to pick holes in the new Everton we are seeing to someway justify that the "Old way with Moyes" wasn't so wrong. Its an evolution not revolution, moyes had 11 years to evolve and didn't. We now have to endure this thread seeking the answers as to why Martinez hasn't revolutionised in a fraction of the time that Moyes didn't even evolve??? You would think our ex manager was doing a fine job over at Old Trafford. Bold 1: No it wasn't. The thread was made when there was an obvious gap opening up between us and the top 4. It was to highlight that in reality what we can achieve in the league hasn't changed one bit. I don't even think I mentioned Moyes and if I did it was probably something along the lines of "the same happened under Moyes" which is hardly trying to big Moyes up. Bold 2: Moyes evolved Everton from Relegation to fodder to European challenges. I like Martinez I think his philosophy is right he's pointing us in the right direction. What I don't agree with is that we are a better side under Martinez. We just aren't "yet". The football seems to be better we retain it a lot more. But are we more fruitful in terms of changes created under Martinez? Are we heck look at the stats! Edited February 26, 2014 by MiguelCotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 For me this thread has got fuck all to do with Moyes and whether you like it or not results wise nothing much has changed therefore I think its perfectly reasonable to debate it The only hole I would pick about the new regime is that we havent got the financial clout to compete at the top, something else that hasnt changed! "Same old Everton" comparing this seasons performances and acheivements with the previous one has got nothing to do with the previous manager of 11 years??? There's a big scottish elephant in the room at two premier league football clubs who is a very telling factor in the changes in both clubs fortunes. Maybe we could create a rule that this ridiculous thread changes to "Same old Everton - nothing to do with the change in managers its all about the financial clout".... Do you seriously want to be seeing the thread with words like:- NDA's, Mansour, Staverly, Lerner, Kings dock, NTL, Fortress, Kirby, 24/7.... Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'm not enraged I just cringe. There are some valid arguments mixed in too, you're right. But the main valid arguments are over the financial inequality at the top end of the league, so why be negative over something we can't affect? I'm not aiming that at you by the way. If we accept (as we must, it's irrefutable), that at least 6 teams have bigger wage and transfer budgets; then surely we should be positive that we're knocking at the door, at the same time playing the game the right way. I agree that the summer transfer window will be hugely important, I just think negativity after only 9 months is ridiculous. I personally think perspective is needed, i.e. what league position / level of performance would people have taken at the beginning of the season, bearing in mind it's a season of transition. As other people have noted, I think it's a testament to how the club has moved on that we're gutted to lose at Stamford Bridge, and more importantly didn't deserve to. Took the game to the league leaders and were unlucky. Exciting times I say! Yeah I totally agree with most of what you are saying but surely if you admit that there are some valid arguments in this thread then its perfectly reasonable to discuss it? Haf goes on one the moment anybody says anything negative about Everton and takes it as a personal dig at Martinez and or some form of unwarranted praise for Moyes, well in my eyes this thread isnt either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 i stand by what i said...haf still loves moyes like an ex that dumped him and he can't get over her Sibdane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Bold 1: No it wasn't. The thread was made when there was an obvious gap opening up between us and the top 4. It was to highlight that in reality what we can achieve in the league hasn't changed one bit. I don't even think I mentioned Moyes and if I did it was probably something along the lines of "the same happened under Moyes" which is hardly trying to big Moyes up. Bold 2: Moyes evolved Everton from Relegation to fodder to European challenges. I like Martinez I think his philosophy is right he's pointing us in the right direction. What I don't agree with is that we are a better side under Martinez. We just aren't "yet". The football seems to be better we retain it a lot more. But are we more fruitful in terms of changes created under Martinez? Are we heck look at the stats! Mig just an opinion on point 1. What we can achieve has changed. if we had a striker on the pitch for the whole season things could be very different. If Lukaku didnt get injured we would have picked up a few more points, sorry... we would have had more of a chance to pick up more points. Our luck has not changed but the possibilitys have. i no longer feel like Leeds. they won the league with some very average players that played out of thier skin for a season. I feel we have been doing the same for a few years. Now i feel like we deserve more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 i stand by what i said...haf still loves moyes like an ex that dumped him and he can't get over her nope, more like an abused house wife who wanted to leave the husband but was trapped and had to wait till the day he got bored of knocking seven bells out of her and moved in with the tart over the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yeah I totally agree with most of what you are saying but surely if you admit that there are some valid arguments in this thread then its perfectly reasonable to discuss it? I go on one the moment anybody says anything positive about Martinez and take it as a personal dig at Moyes and or some form of unwarranted praise for Martinez, well in my eyes this thread isnt either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 "Same old Everton" comparing this seasons performances and acheivements with the previous one has got nothing to do with the previous manager of 11 years??? There's a big scottish elephant in the room at two premier league football clubs who is a very telling factor in the changes in both clubs fortunes. Maybe we could create a rule that this ridiculous thread changes to "Same old Everton - nothing to do with the change in managers its all about the financial clout".... Do you seriously want to be seeing the thread with words like:- NDA's, Mansour, Staverly, Lerner, Kings dock, NTL, Fortress, Kirby, 24/7.... Nope. If the thread bothers you so much why not just ignore it? It's gone 9 pages and as said its a valid debate. You seem to have turned it into some pro Moyes anti Moyes thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yeah I totally agree with most of what you are saying but surely if you admit that there are some valid arguments in this thread then its perfectly reasonable to discuss it? Haf goes on one the moment anybody says anything negative about Everton and takes it as a personal dig at Martinez and or some form of unwarranted praise for Moyes, well in my eyes this thread isnt either I see what you're saying. I just think that the irony of this thread is that Martinez himself would agree that perennial challengers isn't good enough, he wants trophies and serious challenges for the league. He's said so himself on numerous occasions: Everton are a club with 9 league titles, one of the biggest in the land, etc. He's also said that without money you have to build the club up in a different way, it's harder but it can be done. Paraphrasing of course but those are his sentiments from day one. I think he would probably expect to be given more than 9 months to do it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 "Same old Everton" comparing this seasons performances and acheivements with the previous one has got nothing to do with the previous manager of 11 years??? There's a big scottish elephant in the room at two premier league football clubs who is a very telling factor in the changes in both clubs fortunes. Maybe we could create a rule that this ridiculous thread changes to "Same old Everton - nothing to do with the change in managers its all about the financial clout".... Do you seriously want to be seeing the thread with words like:- NDA's, Mansour, Staverly, Lerner, Kings dock, NTL, Fortress, Kirby, 24/7.... Nope. Haf I couldnt give a shit what is going on at Man Utd Im an Evertonian so couldnt care less about them Get your head out of your arse, its a forum why cant we debate whether or not the clubs fortunes have changed? Just because its a topic you dont like doesnt make it ridiculous its clear that finaces are holding the club back so why cant we talk about it? The same things that were holding us back under Moyes are still holding us back under Martinez so I think its a reasonable thread The title of the thread is same old Everton so what relevance have words like NDA's, Mansour, Staverly, Lerner, Kings dock, NTL, Fortress, Kirby got in this thread? I had enough of your negativity last season to last me a lifetime which is why I do find your spatt with Cotto rather amusing Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Mig just an opinion on point 1. What we can achieve has changed. if we had a striker on the pitch for the whole season things could be very different. If Lukaku didnt get injured we would have picked up a few more points, sorry... we would have had more of a chance to pick up more points. Our luck has not changed but the possibilitys have. i no longer feel like Leeds. they won the league with some very average players that played out of thier skin for a season. I feel we have been doing the same for a few years. Now i feel like we deserve more. It's all ifs and buts. The same happened last season. Nothing has changed. It was getting Jelavic back on form last season. Or missing Gibson etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Lol but your happy to accept we only ever played hoofball? Nope Dunc I have never said that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I see what you're saying. I just think that the irony of this thread is that Martinez himself would agree that perennial challengers isn't good enough, he wants trophies and serious challenges for the league. He's said so himself on numerous occasions: Everton are a club with 9 league titles, one of the biggest in the land, etc. He's also said that without money you have to build the club up in a different way, it's harder but it can be done. Paraphrasing of course but those are his sentiments from day one. I think he would probably expect to be given more than 9 months to do it though? Yes of cause he would and that statement in itself is a perfectly good mitigating circumstance as to why nothing has changed yet Its an absolutely monumental ask for any manager in the world to get Everton into the top 4 under the present circumstances and it remains to be seen whether or not Roberto can achieve that, only time will tell You havent got to agree with the thread originatorsinitial post to make it a worthwhile thread My personal take on it is that it isnt quite the same old Everton but I can see where Cotto is coming from Are we any nearer cracking the top 4 - no Are we any more likely to win the League Cup - no Are we any more likely to win the FA Cup - yes i think we are, Roberto's positivity means we will always attack teams and that increases our chances no end IMO and I think that is the one thing that has changed Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Yes of cause he would and that statement in itself is a perfectly good mitigating circumstance as to why nothing has changed yet Its an absolutely monumental ask for any manager in the world to get Everton into the top 4 under the present circumstances and it remains to be seen whether or not Roberto can achieve that, only time will tell You havent got to agree with the thread originatorsinitial post to make it a worthwhile thread My personal take on it is that it isnt quite the same old Everton but I can see where Cotto is coming from Are we any nearer cracking the top 4 - no Are we any more likely to win the League Cup - no Are we any more likely to win the FA Cup - yes i think we are, Roberto's positivity means we will always attack teams and that increases our chances no end IMO and I think that is the one thing that has changed Fair enough. The only things I would disagree on with what you just wrote, is that we don't know yet if we're any nearer to cracking the top 4, as the season isn't over yet. Looking at the fixtures remaining I honestly think we can win every single one on our day. Not saying we will of course! And also that being closer to FA cup success isn't the 'one' thing that's changed, I would also say that being more attractive to watch is a positive change, as well as near universal praise from the press, pundits, other team's fans, etc. Yes not a tangible 'success' as such, but adds to the current feel good factor at the club and may help in attracting the top players in future. Would Barcelona have trusted their protege to us last season? Rhetorical question it doesn't need an answer. Having said all that, I get people's frustrations and yes debate is always welcome Edited February 26, 2014 by Ant1979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I cant understand why people are so enraged about this thread, its a pretty valid argument IMO I dont know what the argument is anymore. Im lost. Ant1979 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes of cause he would and that statement in itself is a perfectly good mitigating circumstance as to why nothing has changed yet Its an absolutely monumental ask for any manager in the world to get Everton into the top 4 under the present circumstances and it remains to be seen whether or not Roberto can achieve that, only time will tell You havent got to agree with the thread originatorsinitial post to make it a worthwhile thread My personal take on it is that it isnt quite the same old Everton but I can see where Cotto is coming from Are we any nearer cracking the top 4 - no Are we any more likely to win the League Cup - no Are we any more likely to win the FA Cup - yes i think we are, Roberto's positivity means we will always attack teams and that increases our chances no end IMO and I think that is the one thing that has changed Then it's not the same old Everton then is it??!!! I dont know what the argument is anymore. Im lost. Its a one size fits all thread title which is pathetic and people are now trying to shoehorn "what it is actually about" to suit their own posts. Pretty ironic that the reasons to dismiss some posts is the reason to justify their own. Just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Then it's not the same old Everton then is it??!!! Until it's won, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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