Pearso Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Duncan and Haf I don't know how but you've both got me convinced you're right, I don't know how that's possible because they're completely opposing arguments. Moyes is pretty irrelevant here though. I agree with Haf in that Martinez has a go at the top 4 and he's not afraid of copping a beating for trying to win away (ala Anfield 4-0). I don't buy this idea about Martinez destroying Moyes' foundations though. We were flying last season, should have made Champs League, I can't see how pretty much the same squad + Samuel Eto'o manages to have the wheels fall off. Yeah I guess the buck stops with the manager and he's got to answer the questions, but I feel as though the players are equally to blame. As MikeO said earlier about Howard, you don't just one day forget how to stop playing. That second goal yesterday was one of the most embarrassing things I've seen - Barry fucking pulled up for the offside trap a good second after the ball was played through. Worst of all it was fucking Jelavic, who couldn't stay onside if he was playing central defence when he was with us. You can't blame Martinez for Barry being a complete and utter spastic. Sure he's wrong to keep picking him but I feel the players are equally to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Duncan and Haf I don't know how but you've both got me convinced you're right, I don't know how that's possible because they're completely opposing arguments. Moyes is pretty irrelevant here though. I agree with Haf in that Martinez has a go at the top 4 and he's not afraid of copping a beating for trying to win away (ala Anfield 4-0). I don't buy this idea about Martinez destroying Moyes' foundations though. We were flying last season, should have made Champs League, I can't see how pretty much the same squad + Samuel Eto'o manages to have the wheels fall off. Yeah I guess the buck stops with the manager and he's got to answer the questions, but I feel as though the players are equally to blame. As MikeO said earlier about Howard, you don't just one day forget how to stop playing. That second goal yesterday was one of the most embarrassing things I've seen - Barry fucking pulled up for the offside trap a good second after the ball was played through. Worst of all it was fucking Jelavic, who couldn't stay onside if he was playing central defence when he was with us. You can't blame Martinez for Barry being a complete and utter spastic. Sure he's wrong to keep picking him but I feel the players are equally to blame. I will be honest, most times I meet an Everton player I feel a sense of pride and am usually made up. If I bumped into Barry I would find it very difficult but would feel like I had to ask him:- "Why don't you care? what is wrong with you?! - you are paid a fortune and you are playing like its a kick around with your mates at 8pm on a monday night trying to sweat the ale out from the weekend - retire if thats what you want but I don't want to see any more half bothered performances" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 we cant blame it all on barry yesterday only coleman and baines came out with any credit even Naisy was shite. He has become a bit of a scapegoat, but I cant get that pathetic attempt at an offside trap out of my mind. The ball was pretty much over his head when he pushed up! Mind you Joel didn't do him any favours, he should have dealt with it comfortably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Barry has been poor for weeks. Attitude bothers me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsunyc Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 well this is my first season following soccer and i chose everton!!! looks like last season was one of those "everything comes together" type of years. i'm hopeful that this year was the blip on the radar and not last. with that said...alot of season left. looks like the team is seriously deflated. who is the leader that is going to galvanize them now that things are tough. i hope this does not carry over to europa league but how could it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 we cant blame it all on barry yesterday only coleman and baines came out with any credit even Naisy was shite. I thought Besic and Oviedo did an ok job to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think everyone has there own scapegoat but nothing will change the fa cup will decide if we have anything left this season or if it finishes in jan, I don't think we will go much further in the Europa and I don't think we will be in a relegation fight. so lets put this to bed and look forward to the weekend COME ON YOU BLUES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 So you trust him to keep us up ignoring the fact he's already had one side relegated and scraped staying up the other occasions. Regarding the keeper.... It's the same situation as the defence. You don't forget your old coach straight away.... He's ruined a solid defence and keeper. plenty of good managers have relegated! Plus he was managing the lowest spending club in the league (wages) so keeping them up for those years was an achievement but I wouldn't expect you to understand that! I think that suggesting he's going to be a better or worse 'keeper at his age depending on who the coach is is daft. He's the 'keeper he is, the coach will be trying to keep him sharp but he won't affect his innate instincts, which is the be all and end all of a good 'keeper. I agree on the whole. It will have an effect but his age it will be minimal. in case you forgot he got wigan relegated doesn't get much worse. See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I could mention numerous games were we played some excellent football under Moyes, the 3-1 win to Villa away, Arsenal away were Piennar scored the cheeky lob, Fiorentina at home the 3-0 derby win at Goodison, the list is endless To quote Paul Merson we were playing like Brazil at times. More 'effective' than 'excellent', I would say - I would not say they were like Brazil (at least, a recognisable free-flowing Brazil). I would also question the 'endless' list. But each to their own as to what constitutes a beautiful game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 plenty of good managers have relegated! Plus he was managing the lowest spending club in the league (wages) so keeping them up for those years was an achievement but I wouldn't expect you to understand that! I agree on the whole. It will have an effect but his age it will be minimal. See above. he is not on a tight budget he has spent in one window more than any efc boss in 30 years he inherited a top 5 team why compare us to wigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 he is not on a tight budget he has spent in one window more than any efc boss in 30 years he inherited a top 5 team why compare us to wigan I'm talking about his time at Wigan. I am talking about Wigan because someone mentioned he won't be able to get us out of this mess but he has proven himself before.In his one full season with us he got us to our highest ever points tally. It's incredible how short people's memories are and how quick they are to turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm talking about his time at Wigan. I am talking about Wigan because someone mentioned he won't be able to get us out of this mess but he has proven himself before. In his one full season with us he got us to our highest ever points tally. It's incredible how short people's memories are and how quick they are to turn. People will claim he did it with Moyes squad/foundations, but he still sold Fellaini, brought in Barry, Gerry and Rom and taught different style of play. Moyes inherited Fergie's champion squad and how did that turn out? Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 People will claim he did it with Moyes squad/foundations, but he still sold Fellaini, brought in Barry, Gerry and Rom and taught different style of play. Moyes inherited Fergie's champion squad and how did that turn out? That squad was finished everyone onows that. How they won the league that season is beyond me. Look at the players that have been added to that squad.. Shaw, Rojo, Herrera, Felliani, Di Maria, Falcao and they're still off the pace. That's how shit that squad was Moyes inherited. He arguably walked into a worse squad than he had. Fact that will always stick with me will be I will always wonder where Moyes would have taken us if he had been given 35 million in one window. We were always just a real quality striker away from breaking top 4 under Moyes imo and he was always denied it. Still never forgive him for the way he left us though and most definitely don't want him bacck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 That squad was finished everyone onows that. How they won the league that season is beyond me. Look at the players that have been added to that squad.. Shaw, Rojo, Herrera, Felliani, Di Maria, Falcao and they're still off the pace. That's how shit that squad was Moyes inherited. He arguably walked into a worse squad than he had. Fact that will always stick with me will be I will always wonder where Moyes would have taken us if he had been given 35 million in one window. We were always just a real quality striker away from breaking top 4 under Moyes imo and he was always denied it. Still never forgive him for the way he left us though and most definitely don't want him bacck. A squad that won the league at a canter the year before was shite? A player doesn't just wake up one morning and be shite. Moyes spent £60m in his time there. He bought a midfielder for £28 and a playmaker for £35m. No excuse for the shite he had them playing. They really were awful. The players van gaal have bought in haven't really been fit. He often uses players who were at moyes disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 A squad that won the league at a canter the year before was shite? A player doesn't just wake up one morning and be shite. Moyes spent £60m in his time there. He bought a midfielder for £28 and a playmaker for £35m. No excuse for the shite he had them playing. They really were awful. The players van gaal have bought in haven't really been fit. He often uses players who were at moyes disposal. Yes Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 http://toffeeweb.com/season/14-15/news/29051.html "It is a good time, not to experiment because it is not a word that I like, but to open competition for the players and do it in a different tournament" If he puts a kids side out and we fall at the first hurdle he can fuck off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yes If they went from 1st to 4th then moyes took over and finished 7th then maybe it's debatable. Fact of the matter moyes went in with a wrecking ball and destroyed what fergie built, rather than tweak and modify his ego got the better of him. He inherited a squad of winners and turned them into yard dogs. Look at Carrick this year, look at him last year. Big difference. Look at moyes appalling game in charge against fulham where United tried the stoke approach and hit long hopeful crosses into the box. 82 crosses!!! A premier league record. Against a centre half partnership that was well over 6ft. Ferguson advised moyes to allow the players to take him through the transition. Moyes created a change, that's why his ego got the better of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 If they went from 1st to 4th then moyes took over and finished 7th then maybe it's debatable. Fact of the matter moyes went in with a wrecking ball and destroyed what fergie built, rather than tweak and modify his ego got the better of him. He inherited a squad of winners and turned them into yard dogs. Look at Carrick this year, look at him last year. Big difference. Look at moyes appalling game in charge against fulham where United tried the stoke approach and hit long hopeful crosses into the box. 82 crosses!!! A premier league record. Against a centre half partnership that was well over 6ft. Ferguson advised moyes to allow the players to take him through the transition. Moyes created a change, that's why his ego got the better of him. You really need to see someone about your obsessions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 You really need to see someone about your obsessions Maybe we can get a 2-4-1 deal? Reverse hypnosis for you may be needed, I think Mr moyes gave you an unhealthy dose of Stockholm syndrome. Btw, before questioning me look at why moyes was brought into this.... Not through me. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Got to agree that United team Moyes had was shite. Add on to that the players didn't take to him he was in a lose, lose situation. The job was too big for him. He had no experience of working with big ego's. duncanmckenzieismagic, Matt and Blue 250 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Got to agree that United team Moyes had was shite. Add on to that the players didn't take to him he was in a lose, lose situation. The job was too big for him. He had no experience of working with big ego's. He did have experience of working with big egos and invariably that is why he could not work with them. Moyes had to be number 1 alpha male. Ever been in a meeting or a social occasion with 2 big egos??? It's fuckin horrible. It takes emotional intelligence and psychology for them to not clash. This is where managers earn their salt. We could have had Craig Bellamy for very productive years of his career if it wasn't for moyes. He didn't like players with arrogance. Imagine moyes managing a cantona, keane, yorke, cole, sheringham, all surly egotistical winners. Ferguson managed cole and sheringham when they despised each other. SAF utilised life coaches for him to understand how to work with winners, egos and to understand chimp brain, and why you need a mix of types to make a winning team. People think Ferguson was a master psychologist, he wasn't, he utilized psychologists more than any other manager. Look at Brendan Rodgers, a certain psychologist predicted his inability to be able to work with older players as soon as his indiscretions with a club employee came to light. As soon as players lose respect or engage in conflict with you then that is it. Moyes tried to dominate the egos, wrong approach. Every winning team needs egos. You need to learn to work with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Look at Brendan Rodgers, a certain psychologist predicted his inability to be able to work with older players as soon as his indiscretions with a club employee came to light. As soon as players lose respect or engage in conflict with you then that is it. Please elaborate on this. What are you on about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Please elaborate on this. What are you on about? Recall Rodgers getting his teeth whitened, weight loss etc etc....? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556762/Liverpool-boss-Brendan-Rodgers-left-wife.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 People will claim he did it with Moyes squad/foundations, but he still sold Fellaini, brought in Barry, Gerry and Rom and taught different style of play. Moyes inherited Fergie's champion squad and how did that turn out? Exactly. The similarities between the Utd squad and our squad were very similar. Both squads needed rejuvenating, with clever buys to key positions. Martinez did that, put his own stamp on the side, Moyes didn't and tried to follow Fergie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Exactly. The similarities between the Utd squad and our squad were very similar. Both squads needed rejuvenating, with clever buys to key positions. Martinez did that, put his own stamp on the side, Moyes didn't and tried to follow Fergie. Moyes behaviour was that of a person who actually believed he was already a Jock Stein, Bill Shankley, SAF.... The Scottish authoritarian. Those previous managers were clever. They manipulated players not dominated. Too much is made of their discipline. They earned their right to do that by winning silverware. Moyes went in and started changing ridiculous things... Banning oven chips on the eve of a game. Stupid. Treating them like children. It automatically makes players think "we've won titles. Champions leagues, cups and you've done fuck all and now you are taking oven chips away." Footballers are spoilt little shits, but you get nowhere playing the school headmaster. You've got to treat them as adults and they will respond accordingly. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm talking about his time at Wigan. I am talking about Wigan because someone mentioned he won't be able to get us out of this mess but he has proven himself before. In his one full season with us he got us to our highest ever points tally. It's incredible how short people's memories are and how quick they are to turn. he only got the highest points since it changed to 3 points per game he did well at wigan with a poor side he has not done so well with a top 6 side that's whats worrying people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Maybe we can get a 2-4-1 deal? Reverse hypnosis for you may be needed, I think Mr moyes gave you an unhealthy dose of Stockholm syndrome. Btw, before questioning me look at why moyes was brought into this.... Not through me. I couldn't give a flying fuck what Moyes did or didn't do at Man United , Im an Evertonian , so Im sick of hearing about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Recall Rodgers getting his teeth whitened, weight loss etc etc....? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556762/Liverpool-boss-Brendan-Rodgers-left-wife.html Oh, I had no idea... What is weird is that some of the articles say that he is now living in Gerrard's house, renting it off him. That's a bit weird, like. Unprofessional, I would say. I know that Gerrard is the club captain, but with his poor form and now him leaving the club, just seems like an uneeded complication... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I couldn't give a flying fuck what Moyes did or didn't do at Man United , Im an Evertonian , so Im sick of hearing about it But you would happily quote the goals lukaku scored for west brom to justify us spending millions on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 he only got the highest points since it changed to 3 points per game he did well at wigan with a poor side he has not done so well with a top 6 side that's whats worrying people Yeh the Premier League only but that's still an impressive record in his first season. He hasn't had a chance to do anything with a top 6 time in the long term. He did alright with Swansea don't forget! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.