Hafnia Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Suggesting your astute when the lad hasn't even played is a bit stupid. Call me a chancer but a lad who can tackle pass and move is a better option that a veteran who no longer gives a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Would love to see Ledson get some game time. He did well against Krasnodar and they are no worse than stoke or Hull. I would also like to see more of Browning abd see nothing wrong with Green getting a few cameos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Its this type of bull shit that makes me laugh. Completely ignoring the fact that Howard had his best season for us last year under the new goal keeping coach. He got Wigan out of worse positions! in case you forgot he got wigan relegated doesn't get much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Here we go, can't really slag Lukaku, so he has a pop at Moyes.....fucking predictable. Moyes had an A, B and C.......some of them were poor, but he also played football equally as good as Martinez at his best, Moyes invented the attacking Baines/Coleman tac-tic.Martinez has brought in tic-tac and the wonderful passing game that Everton are now famous for. To slag Moyes, just to get a pop at your hero Martinez........fucking lost for words. This had nothing to do with Moyes today. Yeah, that's what I do. I kinda just look for games to suit my agenda?! I'm not a fanboy poster hugger so don't start getting all shitty with me. I was a massive Martinez fan and I'm clearly slating him for the same reason I slated moyes. moyes had plan a b and c eh??? yeah seen that at man United didn't we. Mr get as many crosses in the box. So then you bring lukaku into it??? Again another example of someone else bringing the biggest waste of £28m without me even mentioning him. You wanna talk about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 watched the first half and then turned it off, didn't want to ruin my new years day with this shit. besic was our best player in the first half, and he was off. RM is smoking crack man. not happy, RM won't get sacked cause BK is too cheap. My lineup for the future Robles Coleman Stones Jags Garbutt Besic Barkley Baines Lukaku Naisy Mirallas Subs - Eto'o, Kone, Osman when he's fit. Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Yeah, that's what I do. I kinda just look for games to suit my agenda?! I'm not a fanboy poster hugger so don't start getting all shitty with me. I was a massive Martinez fan and I'm clearly slating him for the same reason I slated moyes. moyes had plan a b and c eh??? yeah seen that at man United didn't we. Mr get as many crosses in the box. So then you bring lukaku into it??? Again another example of someone else bringing the biggest waste of £28m without me even mentioning him. You wanna talk about him? What a fucking joke! Nah, let's talk about Kone! Only you would think to put Moyes in the same sentance where you slag Martinez, everyone knows Moyes was capable of switching things about at Everton and I can't remember any Everton teams under him playing dross like we've been served up this season. Using United is typical of you to try and deflect from the topic. Jesus, you hated Moyes, Chris Woods (because he had brown legs), Neville, most things under Moyes.....Lukaku etc. You seem to have a thing for Kone, McCarthy and Martnez....I know your a comedian from Wigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 What a fucking joke! Nah, let's talk about Kone! Only you would think to put Moyes in the same sentance where you slag Martinez, everyone knows Moyes was capable of switching things about at Everton and I can't remember any Everton teams under him playing dross like we've been served up this season. Using United is typical of you to try and deflect from the topic. Jesus, you hated Moyes, Chris Woods (because he had brown legs), Neville, most things under Moyes.....Lukaku etc. You seem to have a thing for Kone, McCarthy and Martnez....I know your a comedian from Wigan Chris woods Brown legs??? Fucks sake me and my ridiculous memory laughs at the memory of that post, was Phil Neville mentioned too? Bit weird aren't ya? Don't try and bracket me, you know jack shit. I remain subjective.. when someone ain't good enough or are found out then it's goodbye. Too much to comprehend??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 What a fucking joke! Nah, let's talk about Kone! Only you would think to put Moyes in the same sentance where you slag Martinez, everyone knows Moyes was capable of switching things about at Everton and I can't remember any Everton teams under him playing dross like we've been served up this season. Using United is typical of you to try and deflect from the topic. Jesus, you hated Moyes, Chris Woods (because he had brown legs), Neville, most things under Moyes.....Lukaku etc. You seem to have a thing for Kone, McCarthy and Martnez....I know your a comedian from Wigan Spot on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Spot on this. Of course it is. TIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 What are these strange other plans Moyes apparently had? I can remember a lot of utterly predictable and sterile rubbish played under him, with a lot of gormless staring from the halfway line when things went wrong, late and ineffective substitutions, and the insistence on playing his favourites. Perhaps the spirit of Moyes is haunting Martinez? We have been horrible all season, culminating in this even more horrible run. Agree with much that has been said in this thread by various parties, but haven't got quite as desperate as to want the Moyes days back. I want Martinez to be brave, positive, and gamble - which I expected of him when he came - not stick to things which just aren't working. Play your players in their best position and drop Barry from any position. Pearso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) What are these strange other plans Moyes apparently had? I can remember a lot of utterly predictable and sterile rubbish played under him, with a lot of gormless staring from the halfway line when things went wrong, late and ineffective substitutions, and the insistence on playing his favourites. Perhaps the spirit of Moyes is haunting Martinez? We have been horrible all season, culminating in this even more horrible run. Agree with much that has been said in this thread by various parties, but haven't got quite as desperate as to want the Moyes days back. I want Martinez to be brave, positive, and gamble - which I expected of him when he came - not stick to things which just aren't working. Play your players in their best position and drop Barry from any position.It was never this bad under Moyes - not after he'd built the foundations. We were always comfortable. He had a lot worse squads than this and managed to get us playing! His final season here we played some excellent exciting stuff! Martinez has been hacking at the foundations with a sledge hammer and they're ready to crumble. Moyes had his faults and he really had hit a glass ceiling but this board seem to have moved heaven and earth for Martinez. When they'd leave Moyesy in the shit. Edited January 1, 2015 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 What are these strange other plans Moyes apparently had? I can remember a lot of utterly predictable and sterile rubbish played under him, with a lot of gormless staring from the halfway line when things went wrong, late and ineffective substitutions, and the insistence on playing his favourites. Perhaps the spirit of Moyes is haunting Martinez? We have been horrible all season, culminating in this even more horrible run. Agree with much that has been said in this thread by various parties, but haven't got quite as desperate as to want the Moyes days back. I want Martinez to be brave, positive, and gamble - which I expected of him when he came - not stick to things which just aren't working. Play your players in their best position and drop Barry from any position. I suppose your going to say we only played hoofball under Moyes next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Ffs, when will the agony of playing Barkley on the wing fucking end?! I know, that and Barry starting just made me groan, although it was inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veedublin Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Some fella on Twitter was saying they're family friends with Baines' dad, and that: -Distin had a blow up with Martinez and was dropped -Stones begged not to play Boxing Day cause he wasn't fit. -Eto'o told the squad not to listen to Martinez because he would ruin their career -None of the players talk to Martinez anymore. Sounds like some wanker trying to get a few re-tweets to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if true given the past few weeks. Maybe Barry's the only one who still talks to Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I suppose your going to say we only played hoofball under Moyes next Are you able to tell me what his Plan A, B and C were? Can you pinpoint any games, particularly in the last few years of his tenure, where we played, as MC says, 'excellent exciting stuff'? All I can remember is the dismal failures in the big games, the humiliating exit to Wigan being a prime example, and the general points I mentioned above. I thought we played well under Martinez last season - starting to play the way we should - but this year has been a car crash. Could be Martinez, could be some players just getting older (Distin, Barry, Pienaar, Osman), could be some not being fit, could be some out of form, could be a combination - but it's all coming at the same time. I don't think Moyes is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Are you able to tell me what his Plan A, B and C were? Can you pinpoint any games, particularly in the last few years of his tenure, where we played, as MC says, 'excellent exciting stuff'? All I can remember is the dismal failures in the big games, the humiliating exit to Wigan being a prime example, and the general points I mentioned above. I thought we played well under Martinez last season - starting to play the way we should - but this year has been a car crash. Could be Martinez, could be some players just getting older (Distin, Barry, Pienaar, Osman), could be some not being fit, could be some out of form, could be a combination - but it's all coming at the same time. I don't think Moyes is the answer. I could mention numerous games were we played some excellent football under Moyes, the 3-1 win to Villa away, Arsenal away were Piennar scored the cheeky lob, Fiorentina at home the 3-0 derby win at Goodison, the list is endless To quote Paul Merson we were playing like Brazil at times. Moyes plan B was usually to shove Fellaini uptop. But under Moyes we could mix it up. If teams wanted to play open football we could pass it around as well as the best of them but if they wanted a scrap we could do that as well . Under Roberto there is no fight or passion. Plan A is fucked and so far there is no sign of a plan B Incidentally I haven't said Moyes is the answer, Im just saying its total bollocks when people intimate that Moyes teams couldn't play football patto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I agree. I think Moyes knew that he had taken us as far as he could though and it was best for him and Everton that there was a parting of the ways. Unfortunately, after a decent first season we are going backwards at a frightening rate. That isn't Moyes fault. Was it Moyes's team or Roberto's team that did so well last year. Martinez deserved the plaudits last season and he deserves the criticism this season. Moyes is history. Get over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I could mention numerous games were we played some excellent football under Moyes, the 3-1 win to Villa away, Arsenal away were Piennar scored the cheeky lob, Fiorentina at home the 3-0 derby win at Goodison, the list is endless To quote Paul Merson we were playing like Brazil at times. Moyes plan B was usually to shove Fellaini uptop. But under Moyes we could mix it up. If teams wanted to play open football we could pass it around as well as the best of them but if they wanted a scrap we could do that as well . Under Roberto there is no fight or passion. Plan A is fucked and so far there is no sign of a plan B Incidentally I haven't said Moyes is the answer, Im just saying its total bollocks when people intimate that Moyes teams couldn't play football To quote Paul Merson doesn't really add credibility really does it... here's some of his beauties:- "When Everton knock it long, they don't knock it long" "Reading won't have the confidence to be confident" "There's only one person gets you sacked and that's the fans" "Football's all about yesterday, it's all about now" Merson aside - its quite incredible that sentiments towards Moyes have changed according to our recent downturn. Some may forget the fact that his dour tactics, poor substitutions, negativity when playing the top 4 led to disgruntled fans and decreasing attendances but I won't. He dined out on his rescue act and therefore was indulged to continue to be a one dimensional manager. The very fact that fans can call out specific games where we played nice football says it all he managed us for 518 games... yet specific games are being called out in order to say "he did play nice football" - Absolute nonsense, those games were the exception to the rule. I'm beyond angry with Martinez right now. My only hope is that behind the scenes he is really having a long hard look at himself and understanding that he needs to evolve his methodology and not just stubbornly stick to it. The lack of tempo is the biggest issue, the lack of fight in certain players, and his inability to see that Gareth Barry needs to be disciplined for his recent performances - not started again. A bit of humility and not positivity is what he needs. Pearso and Formby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 We know moyes is history but he would never have spent £28 m on lukaku jose had our kecks off. Hmmm, let's not get all OTT on Davie Moyes the shrewd transfer operator he bought Per Kroldrup for £5m in 2005 the year after he broke the club transfer record signing James Beattie for £6m..... Kroldrup couldn't head the ball and was sold for a snip, back in 2005 £5m represented a fair wedge of dosh, especially considering the club was in dire financial circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) To quote Paul Merson doesn't really add credibility really does it... here's some of his beauties:- "When Everton knock it long, they don't knock it long" "Reading won't have the confidence to be confident" "There's only one person gets you sacked and that's the fans" "Football's all about yesterday, it's all about now" Merson aside - its quite incredible that sentiments towards Moyes have changed according to our recent downturn. Some may forget the fact that his dour tactics, poor substitutions, negativity when playing the top 4 led to disgruntled fans and decreasing attendances but I won't. He dined out on his rescue act and therefore was indulged to continue to be a one dimensional manager. The very fact that fans can call out specific games where we played nice football says it all he managed us for 518 games... yet specific games are being called out in order to say "he did play nice football" - Absolute nonsense, those games were the exception to the rule. I'm beyond angry with Martinez right now. My only hope is that behind the scenes he is really having a long hard look at himself and understanding that he needs to evolve his methodology and not just stubbornly stick to it. The lack of tempo is the biggest issue, the lack of fight in certain players, and his inability to see that Gareth Barry needs to be disciplined for his recent performances - not started again. A bit of humility and not positivity is what he needs. Martinez got one positive result away from home against the top 4 + City last season. That at a down trodden United. He got thumped at Anfield & City, beat at Chelsea and drew at Arsenal. Very Moyesc results. Edited January 2, 2015 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Martinez got one positive result away from home against the top 4 + City last season. That at a down trodden United. He got thumped at Anfield & City, beat at Chelsea and drew at Arsenal. Very Moyesc results. Why only away perfromances, do the home victories to Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and cracking 3-3 draw at home to Liverpool invalidate your opinion??? The away performances weren't Moyes performances - far from it. No penknives to gunfights, compare our performance at the emirates to that of Moyes - Arsenal got away with a draw and knew it. The previous visit we were trying all sorts of anti football. The Liverpool performance against us when they thumped us was to be fair exceptional, that team went on a run and battered the likes of Arsenal. Do you think that we were worse in that game than Moyes 10 year anniversary gift of a hat trick to Steven Gerrard where when well beaten he took off a striker for a defender? The kop sang "10 more years" - we lost 3-0 trying not to concede against a poor Liverpool side vs losing 4-0 with an injury depleted side against a rampant Liverpool team. Pearso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 im not a fan of moyes I wanted him out 18 months before he left regarding kroldrup we lost 1.5 m plus shandy andy fee and wages all coaches get some signings wrong but lukaku is starting to look disastrous. But I still think we have to support martinez at this time he just needs to wise up. Lets be honest, all bar a one or two posters were celebrating like we had signed the new George Weah when we got Lukaku in on a perm. In fact I think it was just me who had him down as being bang average. £28m on him was sheer stupidity and he got caught up in the over hyped nonsense that was surrounding this 21 year old "beast". But relative to this Moyes made some pretty poor expensive signings, Bilyaltdinov, Richard Wright, Simon Davies. Yes seem cheap now - at the time they were expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Agree with all of the above but we are where we are and have to find a way out of our situation with what we have - possibly plus a keeper in the January sales. Martinez has to get the siege mentality going and I just don't think he has it in him. The political analogy would be to describe him as a champagne socialist - all ideas and theory but doesn't fancy the dirty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Why only away perfromances, do the home victories to Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and cracking 3-3 draw at home to Liverpool invalidate your opinion??? The away performances weren't Moyes performances - far from it. No penknives to gunfights, compare our performance at the emirates to that of Moyes - Arsenal got away with a draw and knew it. The previous visit we were trying all sorts of anti football. The Liverpool performance against us when they thumped us was to be fair exceptional, that team went on a run and battered the likes of Arsenal. Do you think that we were worse in that game than Moyes 10 year anniversary gift of a hat trick to Steven Gerrard where when well beaten he took off a striker for a defender? The kop sang "10 more years" - we lost 3-0 trying not to concede against a poor Liverpool side vs losing 4-0 with an injury depleted side against a rampant Liverpool team. Moyes got loads of home wins against the top 4. It was always away trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Why only away perfromances, do the home victories to Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and cracking 3-3 draw at home to Liverpool invalidate your opinion??? The away performances weren't Moyes performances - far from it. No penknives to gunfights, compare our performance at the emirates to that of Moyes - Arsenal got away with a draw and knew it. The previous visit we were trying all sorts of anti football. The Liverpool performance against us when they thumped us was to be fair exceptional, that team went on a run and battered the likes of Arsenal. Do you think that we were worse in that game than Moyes 10 year anniversary gift of a hat trick to Steven Gerrard where when well beaten he took off a striker for a defender? The kop sang "10 more years" - we lost 3-0 trying not to concede against a poor Liverpool side vs losing 4-0 with an injury depleted side against a rampant Liverpool team. And for the record the 4-0 defeat at Anfield was the worst I've ever seen there. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) To quote Paul Merson doesn't really add credibility really does it... here's some of his beauties:- "When Everton knock it long, they don't knock it long" "Reading won't have the confidence to be confident" "There's only one person gets you sacked and that's the fans" "Football's all about yesterday, it's all about now" Merson aside - its quite incredible that sentiments towards Moyes have changed according to our recent downturn. Some may forget the fact that his dour tactics, poor substitutions, negativity when playing the top 4 led to disgruntled fans and decreasing attendances but I won't. He dined out on his rescue act and therefore was indulged to continue to be a one dimensional manager. The very fact that fans can call out specific games where we played nice football says it all he managed us for 518 games... yet specific games are being called out in order to say "he did play nice football" - Absolute nonsense, those games were the exception to the rule. I'm beyond angry with Martinez right now. My only hope is that behind the scenes he is really having a long hard look at himself and understanding that he needs to evolve his methodology and not just stubbornly stick to it. The lack of tempo is the biggest issue, the lack of fight in certain players, and his inability to see that Gareth Barry needs to be disciplined for his recent performances - not started again. A bit of humility and not positivity is what he needs. What utter bollocks! I was asked to provide examples of Moyes teams playing good football and so named a few and as I said the list was endless. My sentiments towards Moyes have never changed I have always said he was a good manager for Everton and the facts would back that up We all know what your like when you get a moan in your head ( Moyes, BK, Lukaku ) so lets not go through all this rubbish of you trying to rewrite the history books again . I don't want Moyes back because he had taken us as far as he could but one thing is for certain we wouldn't be in this mess now if he was still here so lets just leave it there Edited January 2, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Moyes got loads of home wins against the top 4. It was always away trips. In the same season? I don't think so. 11 points out of 24 was Moyes best return against the Top 4 over 11 years - Martinez in his first season gave us 11 points against the top 4 and arguably were unlucky not to have 14-16 looking at the last gasp Chelsea winner, Liverpool equaliser.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 What utter bollocks! I was asked to provide examples of Moyes teams playing good football and so named a few and as I said the list was endless. My sentiments towards Moyes have never changed I have always said he was a good manager for Everton and the facts would back that up We all know what your like when you get a moan in your head ( Moyes, BK, Lukaku ) so lets not go through all this rubbish of you trying to rewrite the history books again . I don't want Moyes back because he had taken us as far as he could but one thing is for certain we wouldn't be in this mess now if he was still here so lets just leave it there Totally disagree with that - its not like he never took us to 17th is it? was it his 2nd or 3rd season??? Moyes will always be Moyes and for that reason is why I wanted rid. No real ambition, just happy to be with the also rans. Martinez is trying something - as painful as it is right now, it may get him sacked. Davie safe Moyes may have been the ideal man for you, but not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Totally disagree with that - its not like he never took us to 17th is it? was it his 2nd or 3rd season??? Moyes will always be Moyes and for that reason is why I wanted rid. No real ambition, just happy to be with the also rans. Martinez is trying something - as painful as it is right now, it may get him sacked. Davie safe Moyes may have been the ideal man for you, but not for me. There is one huge difference Moyes had taken over a team that were perennial relegation battlers and so that was pretty much the norm in those days, he then turned us into regular top half finishers. at the moment Roberto appears to be doing it the other way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 My last point on Moyes Do you remember the start of the 2012/13 season? We were playing some of the best expansive free flowing football Ive seen from Everton but we didn't have a decent CF to convert the chances into goals and so we were not getting the results our play deserved and our league position started to suffer. Moyes changed his tactics, it wasn't as pretty but it got us results and soon had us back up the right end of the table. Will Roberto do the same or will he remain stubborn until the end? Matt and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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