Romey 1878 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Newty - what is the way then? Genuine question because I really don't know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Newty - what is the way then? Genuine question because I really don't know! That you let results tell the story and the board do their job....though that might be the concern!!! Boo's are fair enough, words of discontent fair enough. But after game protests and aeroplane banners...nah. I just think that Martinez deserves to be treat with more dignity than this. He's not a bad bloke and has done no harm to the club off the pitch. As I've said before, he was a strong candidate who got a good job but just hasn't been able to deliver with the senior team. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I think when something is happening at the football club that the vast majority of fans are unhappy with, they have every right to voice their concerns. Arsenal fans are doing it, Liverpool fans did it over ticket prices, Man City fans boo the CL anthem... why shouldn't we let the board know that, quite frankly, most of us would not accept any scenario where Martinez is in charge next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 That you let results tell the story and the board do their job....though that might be the concern!!! Boo's are fair enough, words of discontent fair enough. But after game protests and aeroplane banners...nah. I just think that Martinez deserves to be treat with more dignity than this. He's not a bad bloke and has done no harm to the club off the pitch. As I've said before, he was a strong candidate who got a good job but just hasn't been able to deliver with the senior team. Nobody is saying he is not a decent person, I certainly believe he is. The has a dignity to him and has done allot for Everton in the Community. The fact remains however that he is not the manager to take us forward and needs to be replaced. We as fans have a stake in our club and have the right to show our feelings. I would rather this take place at the end of the match rather than during it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Nobody is saying he is not a decent person, I certainly believe he is. The has a dignity to him and has done allot for Everton in the Community. The fact remains however that he is not the manager to take us forward and needs to be replaced. We as fans have a stake in our club and have the right to show our feelings. I would rather this take place at the end of the match rather than during it. I agree with that bit, but I question the effectiveness of protesting to an empty stadium when everyone else has gone home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I agree with that bit, but I question the effectiveness of protesting to an empty stadium when everyone else has gone home. Its a balancing act between not alienating the players, for example Barkley at Wembley and letting the board know that we the fans want a change of management. I think in this age of 24 hour media a demonstration after the match will generate publicity, and as its not when the players are on the pitch, will hopefully let the players know its not about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Nobody is saying he is not a decent person, I certainly believe he is. The has a dignity to him and has done allot for Everton in the Community. The fact remains however that he is not the manager to take us forward and needs to be replaced. We as fans have a stake in our club and have the right to show our feelings. I would rather this take place at the end of the match rather than during it. Yes, and results show that he needs to be replaced. Everyone can see that. And of course we have a right to show our feelings. But there is a right way to express your rights, isn't there? I don't agree with the protests. I don't think it is necessary. Standing there chanting 'you're full of shit' and all that goes too far for more. I have morales that good people should be treat like good people. Because not enough good people exist these days. Or so it seems. So thank him for his efforts and say good bye. Simple as that. Not to mention it bloody embarrassing for the club. Others are looking and thinking 'fuck me, their mid table and protesting'. We put Bill through the same shit. Was that the right thing to do too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Its a balancing act between not alienating the players, for example Barkley at Wembley and letting the board know that we the fans want a change of management. I think in this age of 24 hour media a demonstration after the match will generate publicity, and as its not when the players are on the pitch, will hopefully let the players know its not about them. Man, we've got twitter, Facebook, YouTube, websites, forums....all sorts of ways to 'express our rights as stake holders'. I do understand the reasoning behind it, I just don't think it fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The point being missed is that it shouldn't take the fans to remind the board "nothing but the best is good enough". If a board needs reminding of its duty to the club then they aren't the right board.... they haven't been for quite some time and I want to see what moshiri is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The point being missed is that it shouldn't take the fans to remind the board "nothing but the best is good enough". If a board needs reminding of its duty to the club then they aren't the right board.... they haven't been for quite some time and I want to see what moshiri is all about. This is a good test for Moshiri. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Its a balancing act between not alienating the players, for example Barkley at Wembley and letting the board know that we the fans want a change of management. I think in this age of 24 hour media a demonstration after the match will generate publicity, and as its not when the players are on the pitch, will hopefully let the players know its not about them. I agree it's a balancing act and I appreciate the vast majority rightly get behind the team during the match. I just think the board already know all too well what a large section of the fans feel so sitting there with banners is a bit of an empty gesture; it's not going to affect their thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 A lot of fans want to show that were no different than the rest, we're not special. If it works for other clubs then we will copy. As paying fans we have a right to tell the manager he's full of shit. I mean Come on, it's not like he's human like the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Yes, and results show that he needs to be replaced. Everyone can see that. And of course we have a right to show our feelings. But there is a right way to express your rights, isn't there? I don't agree with the protests. I don't think it is necessary. Standing there chanting 'you're full of shit' and all that goes too far for more. I have morales that good people should be treat like good people. Because not enough good people exist these days. Or so it seems. So thank him for his efforts and say good bye. Simple as that. Not to mention it bloody embarrassing for the club. Others are looking and thinking 'fuck me, their mid table and protesting'. We put Bill through the same shit. Was that the right thing to do too? I wouldn't stand there chanting "your full of shit", that is way to far. Banners yes, personal insults no. Protesting against meritocracy is not embarrassing. I thought the haranguing of Bill was out of order and demeaned our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 Man, we've got twitter, Facebook, YouTube, websites, forums....all sorts of ways to 'express our rights as stake holders'. I do understand the reasoning behind it, I just don't think it fits. I agree, but the only way to show the board and to generate press is by demonstrating at the game. It would be easy to dismiss internet protests as not coming from real fans, its much harder to dismiss protests from those at the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I agree it's a balancing act and I appreciate the vast majority rightly get behind the team during the match. I just think the board already know all too well what a large section of the fans feel so sitting there with banners is a bit of an empty gesture; it's not going to affect their thinking. The fans had to show that it just wasn't about the poor performance at Anfield, or the first half at Wembley, that it was fans saying his time is up. I guess they wanted to make sure the board knew, and to keep up the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankurette Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) I've looked through twitter and I honestly feel for Martinez. It should never have come to this. The behaviour and protests are disgusting IMO. As much as I don't want him as manager he's a human being and this is ridiculous. Yeah, I've seen people wishing death on Martinez and I find that shit really creepy. He's a fucking football manager, not a terrorist, not a mass murderer. Bring banners if you want, have sit-ins if you want, but some of the anti-Martinez sentiment gets way too personal. Edited April 30, 2016 by Kankurette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 I agree, but the only way to show the board and to generate press is by demonstrating at the game. It would be easy to dismiss internet protests as not coming from real fans, its much harder to dismiss protests from those at the match. But how many actually stayed to protest? I've watched videos and seen pictures, about 100 people. How many were at GP today? 38,000? So what impact is it going to have? If anything, it makes it look like a minority are unhappy, when that's not the case. It looks daft. And there was a 'Bill step aside' banner too. So months after bringing in this new face that we are all excited about, that no one knew about before hand, somehow he's back to taking flack!!! How does that work? How does that look to the outside world? I don't get it. I dunno. It is what it is. For me, the cap doesn't fit. Not my flavour at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The fans had to show that it just wasn't about the poor performance at Anfield, or the first half at Wembley, that it was fans saying his time is up. I guess they wanted to make sure the board knew, and to keep up the pressure. "His time is up" is not a decision that the fans get to make, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) But how many actually stayed to protest? I've watched videos and seen pictures, about 100 people. How many were at GP today? 38,000? So what impact is it going to have? If anything, it makes it look like a minority are unhappy, when that's not the case. It looks daft. And there was a 'Bill step aside' banner too. So months after bringing in this new face that we are all excited about, that no one knew about before hand, somehow he's back to taking flack!!! How does that work? How does that look to the outside world? I don't get it. I dunno. It is what it is. For me, the cap doesn't fit. Not my flavour at all. Look I'm not the spokesperson for the "We want Martinez out and are going to protest after matches" group. Having looked at the photos I would agree and say it was a couple of hundred at most. But the point is I guess that they were prepared to do it and I respect that its their choice. They paid for their tickets, I guess are regulars there, they have the right to express their views. I think Bill is an Everton fan first and foremost and while he has made some mistakes, he has done very well for us overall, especially in finding us Morishi. I disagree with there protests against him, but I recognise their right to share their views. Would I join the protest asking for Martinez to go, probably, would I join the one about Bill, definitely not. Its peoples choice tho, Just like I respect your choice that its not for you. As Voltaire said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to my dying breath your right to say it" Edited April 30, 2016 by London Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 "His time is up" is not a decision that the fans get to make, No its not, and rightly so, mob rule is no rule at all. We need a board who can make dispassionate and logical decisions. The board however must take account of the view of the fans who after all are a vital part of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) Probably beating a dead donkey here, but his Mr Nice Guy Shtick expired a long time ago for me. His treatment of Baines pissed me off to no end (still does), and his condescending attitude towards ALL OF US in press conferences I find nauseating and, frankly, disrespectful. The last time I checked I wasn't eight (8) years old, so don't speak to me in such terms. Those of you that find him a man of integrity and honor, well that's fine, but I personally don't see it anymore. Maybe my pessimistic side is my shining beacon of light here, but he has basically informed us that we are incorrect in our opinion of him, because he states he is clearly still the man for the job. That is zero accountability on his part - I know nine year-old children with a heightened sense of accountability compared to that man, and that is no exaggeration. Do I want him dead or would ever wish harm on him? No way, that is ridiculous, petty, and evil. Would I be sitting with the 200 folks at the end of the match if was at Goodison? Yes. Edited May 1, 2016 by chalkpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankurette Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I would too if I didn't have anxiety attacks and shit. Didn't people do the same thing to protest against Johnson back in the '90s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 That you let results tell the story and the board do their job....though that might be the concern!!! Boo's are fair enough, words of discontent fair enough. But after game protests and aeroplane banners...nah. I just think that Martinez deserves to be treat with more dignity than this. He's not a bad bloke and has done no harm to the club off the pitch. As I've said before, he was a strong candidate who got a good job but just hasn't been able to deliver with the senior team. The results are telling the story and the board haven't acted and have given no indication that they are going to act, so those fans probably feel that they have to send a message to those in charge and the protest yesterday was their way of doing it. These protests aren't not treating Martinez with dignity, IMO. I don't think they in any way undermine the club. What does is when people get to the really personal shit and that is unacceptable, and there is no need for any of that. It's his job and he's done a bad one for the most part, but there's no need for some of the lengths people have gone to. But when fans think something is wrong then they should speak up (in the right way). It's not like it's a knee-jerk reaction or anything, it's been 2 years of shite. I think they've got every right to express their feelings. I genuinely don't enjoy going the game currently. I was sat there yesterday when Bournemouth were pushing for the second equaliser, and I'd usually be on the edge of my seat and nervous as hell that we'd concede but I just wasn't arsed. There was no rapidly beating heart. That's just not me, and it's not right. As has been mentioned by London Blue; the fans protested to get rid of Johnson because they felt he was wrong for Everton Football Club. Would you rather they'd done nothing and he'd stayed longer? I don't think anyone would want that and the fans helped to make sure that didn't happen. It's a fine balancing act but I do think that the majority of things the fans have done over this has been perfectly fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 This is the thing with protesting Rom, I agree with it as a measure to take when you really need to, when you are desperate and really have a strong valid point. Junior Doctors for example...fully support them in a battle against the final decision maker. Fans protesting about ticket prices going up when clubs are about to get a windfall? Fully support them in a battle with the final decision maker. Arsene Wenger? I get the point but no. Those fans have been arguing amongst themselves for years. Peter Johnson? Absolutely agree with that because there you have the final decision maker running the club abysmally. There's no comparison between the 2 situations. Aston Villa fans...absolutely agree with them. The media circus knew our fans were unhappy before this protest, it's been reported for a bit now. They know Martinez is under performing, the league table tells you that. We have a worrying trend at this club now to turn to these tactics too easily. You do it too much, you dilute the impact. So save desperate measures for desperate times. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 The point being missed is that it shouldn't take the fans to remind the board "nothing but the best is good enough". If a board needs reminding of its duty to the club then they aren't the right board.... they haven't been for quite some time and I want to see what moshiri is all about. I don't think anyone is missing that point and the board don't have a "duty to the club" they have a duty to the shareholders, shareholders who are monitoring the situation in the context of all variables and likely impact on their investment. Moshiri is also now in a position where it might look like he's pandering to the fans, he might not like that, couple that with the fact that he's an accountant I wouldn't be holding any breath holding competitions on radical change. "His time is up" is not a decision that the fans get to make, Given Bill has been subjected to the planes and banners, I wonder how much that might add to his solidarity with Martinez. He said at the time of his appointment of Martinez "When you know, you know" and I just can't see him sacking him because we're mid table and semi final of both domestic cups. That said I was able to take positives earlier in the season, since that last international break we've been dire all over the park and that has to change, just depends on whether he's going to be saved by the bell. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 This is the thing with protesting Rom, I agree with it as a measure to take when you really need to, when you are desperate and really have a strong valid point. Junior Doctors for example...fully support them in a battle against the final decision maker. Fans protesting about ticket prices going up when clubs are about to get a windfall? Fully support them in a battle with the final decision maker. Arsene Wenger? I get the point but no. Those fans have been arguing amongst themselves for years. Peter Johnson? Absolutely agree with that because there you have the final decision maker running the club abysmally. There's no comparison between the 2 situations. Aston Villa fans...absolutely agree with them. The media circus knew our fans were unhappy before this protest, it's been reported for a bit now. They know Martinez is under performing, the league table tells you that. We have a worrying trend at this club now to turn to these tactics too easily. You do it too much, you dilute the impact. So save desperate measures for desperate times. That's all. If they were protesting after a few months of poor results/performances then I could agree they were turning to these tactics too easily, but it's been 2 years and now they're protesting. I didn't protest with them but I don't think it was unreasonable or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I would too if I didn't have anxiety attacks and shit. Didn't people do the same thing to protest against Johnson back in the '90s? End of 1983 also, leaflets handed out saying... “Kendall and Carter must go. 26,000 stay-away fans can’t be wrong.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ian-doyle-change-now-inevitable-11266766 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 I think fan protest is particularly necessary because Kenwright will be extremely reluctant to remove Martinez. He loves to be seen as the manager's best friend, prides himself on his loyalty, wants to be seen as Mr Nice Guy chairman; I have no doubt he would rather stick with Martinez. He has to know that that is not a view shared by the majority of Everton fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/01/everton-roberto-martinez-bournemouth-premier-league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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