StevO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Martinez has always had the press in his pocket, but since the Baines thing I think he insulted Phil Kirkbride (I think it was him anyway) saying he misrepresented the comments. I don't think the media have been on his side after that. So now we see stories everyday linking us to managers, talking about when he will be sacked, talking about how stupid his comments are in interviews. He's got no easy ride with them anymore. I stayed behind yesterday for about 15 minutes, I felt I'd done enough and moved on. I think only 100 fans stayed for the full 90 minutes. But the club turning the tannoy up loud to drown out the noise, I don't know what that was to achieve. If the board really are going to fire him, why wait? Why keep on having Roberto subjected to the hate, and have the protests and the media circus. Just end it and let's move on with the fans united for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 If the board really are going to fire him, why wait? Why keep on having Roberto subjected to the hate, and have the protests and the media circus. Just end it and let's move on with the fans united for next season. Well, there is always the case of the status quo, which is our worst nightmare (well except for MikeO - ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Well, there is always the case of the status quo, which is our worst nightmare (well except for MikeO - ) Love to see you quote where I've said that; my position is the same as it's always been, that I trust the board to make the right decision and I'll support the manager whoever the hell it is, because he's the manager of Everton and I want Everton to succeed. Currently I want Roberto to succeed, I've not said he will. You may find a quote from many months back saying I still think he'll succeed (which you could find for virtually every member if you go back far enough) but that's something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) There is an interesting article in today's Telegraph Sport by 'Arry Redknapp. It is headed 'Leicester have shown you do not have to play the Barca way to be successful'. The article could have been a critique of Everton under Martinez. Some quotes: *Leicester have the lowest passing accuracy in the Premier League and are third bottom when it comes to possession. *I think we have got hung up on pass, pass, pass. There has got to be an end product. *The slower you play the easier it is for the opposition to get set up and the harder it is to break them down. *I always preferred playing against sides that would pass and pass ....we would set traps for those teams. I think this last quote is the most telling. Teams have sussed us out, we only play one way and they know what that is going to be. They set traps for us and we fall into them. When we play Leicester we will probably have 70% possession against 30% but lose. Still, Martinez will be happy! Edited May 2, 2016 by johnh markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 When we play Leicester we will probably have 70% possession against 30% but lose. Still, Martinez will be happy! Ranieri said (again) in his interview post United that performance was more important than result. But then I guess he's allowed to say it from where he is but when Roberto says it he's talking bollocks. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Ranieri said (again) in his interview post United that performance was more important than result. But then I guess he's allowed to say it from where he is but when Roberto says it he's talking bollocks. Just saying. yeah, he's on the verge of the title, his teams performances have led to success. So he's got every right to say it and Martinez, languishing mid table, unable to adapt or compromise, lambasting players for speaking out whilst defending those playing shit, has no right whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 yeah, he's on the verge of the title, his teams performances have led to success. So he's got every right to say it and Martinez, languishing mid table, unable to adapt or compromise, lambasting players for speaking out whilst defending those playing shit, has no right whatsoever. Don't agree, it's either a sensible/valid/logical thing to say or it's not irrespective of circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Don't agree, it's either a sensible/valid/logical thing to say or it's not irrespective of circumstances.its completely dependent on the circumstances! If my phone wasn't nearly dead, I'd go into more detail, but I can't get my head around your point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I really feel that phrase is only relevant during pre-season or when there is nothing left to play for, so you two are both wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I don't get that phase at all!!! It's a bit if a dafty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I really feel that phrase is only relevant during pre-season or when there is nothing left to play for, so you two are both wrong! I'm not wrong because I'm not offering an opinion on it as a comment, just pointing out the fact that two different guys can say the same thing and one is lauded, the other pilloried . So that makes you wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Its a lot easier to justify saying that when you are 8 points clear at the top of the league as manager of 5000/1 rank outsiders than it is when you are languishing in the bottom half of the league with a team that was expected to challenge for top four. In short, when Ranieri speaks he has credibility and gravitas. When Martinez speaks he just sounds like a failed politician who will say or do anything to keep his snout in the Westminster trough for another term of office. Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Its a lot easier to justify saying that when you are 8 points clear at the top of the league as manager of 5000/1 rank outsiders than it is when you are languishing in the bottom half of the league with a team that was expected to challenge for top four. In short, when Ranieri speaks he has credibility and gravitas. When Martinez speaks he just sounds like a failed politician who will say or do anything to keep his snout in the Westminster trough for another term of office. Big difference. First five words say it all, of course it is under his current circumstances, but it doesn't make the statement any more true. Every supporter wants their team to win; ugly if needed. Did Ranieri have credibility and gravitas when his Greek team lost to the Faroe Islands? Did he have it when he was appointed at Leicester after Pearson saved them from relegation and nobody (LIneker inciluded) wanted him? But the Leicester board got it right despite the fans being dubious in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Leicester's 'performances' also consist of defending superbly as a unit, working tirelessly, moving the ball quickly and efficiently and having more shots per game than everyone else. That wins you football matches, anyone should applaud those sorts of performance. When Martinez defends our 'performances', he means we have made 600+ passes, and praises the team in spite of individual defensive errors, lack of cohesion, workrate and the often ponderous way we try to break teams down. That doesn't win you football matches. Congratulations Leicester btw, fully deserved and a remarkable story. 1962efc and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm not wrong because I'm not offering an opinion on it as a comment, just pointing out the fact that two different guys can say the same thing and one is lauded, the other pilloried . Mike, perhaps Ranieri isn't criticised by us as Everton fans for saying it because we care little about their results or their performance. It's of no relevance to us as such, though I'm sure that most of us would have enjoyed seeing Tottenham win the league far less than Leicester. As for criticism from pundits of that comment from Ranieri then that is also unlikely in view of there being far more positive and newsworthy aspects that they can comment on whereas for Martinez and Everton the same is not the case. Would perhaps be more relevant to investigate whether Leicester fans, at a point in time where they were one win from the title, were annoyed that Ranieri felt the performance more important than the result. I suspect that some were and I know that I would be if I were one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Leicester's 'performances' also consist of defending superbly as a unit, working tirelessly, moving the ball quickly and efficiently and having more shots per game than everyone else. That wins you football matches, anyone should applaud those sorts of performance. When Martinez defends our 'performances', he means we have made 600+ passes, and praises the team in spite of individual defensive errors, lack of cohesion, workrate and the often ponderous way we try to break teams down. That doesn't win you football matches. Congratulations Leicester btw, fully deserved and a remarkable story. Wouldn't disagree with any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 By all accounts Ranieri threw his philosophy in the bin most of the time to get results. Many 1-0 victories that offered nothing in terms of style or performance. Roberto wouldn't dream of it. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 By all accounts Ranieri threw his philosophy in the bin most of the time to get results. Many 1-0 victories that offered nothing in terms of style or performance. Roberto wouldn't dream of it. and this is why i love football. because just a short time ago tiki taka was dominating world and club football. it couldn't be stopped. and now the old classic 442 italian defend and counter has won the league. it's archaic, it's "ugly", and yet it's back. and maybe it will be popular for another decade and then something else will come along, and then eventually the tiki taka will be back and i just love that it evolves but it also stays the same. what a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Say what you like about Ranieri but the fact of the matter is he has got the best out of a Leicester team that most of us thought were a good bet for relegation. He has given them belief and a togetherness that has been sadly lacking at Everton. His team know how to defend, be threatening on the break and win matches. Basically. He has got them playing to their strengths and adapted the style accordingly. Martinez has gone the other way. He has refused to compromise his 'style' one iota and has tried to get solid defenders to play the ball out from the back - which even Stones has screwed up (with lost goals and confidence as a consequence) on several occasions. Management is all about maximising the effectiveness of your resources, not insisting your resources change what has made them solid in the past. That, to me, is why he has to go. 1962efc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Say what you like about Ranieri but the fact of the matter is he has got the best out of a Leicester team that most of us thought were a good bet for relegation. He has given them belief and a togetherness that has been sadly lacking at Everton. His team know how to defend, be threatening on the break and win matches. Basically. He has got them playing to their strengths and adapted the style accordingly. Martinez has gone the other way. He has refused to compromise his 'style' one iota and has tried to get solid defenders to play the ball out from the back - which even Stones has screwed up (with lost goals and confidence as a consequence) on several occasions. Management is all about maximising the effectiveness of your resources, not insisting your resources change what has made them solid in the past. That, to me, is why he has to go. So you're saying the Leicester board got it right and needed to be trusted when everyone thought they were crazy. I agree. 26,000 fans can't be wrong, but sometimes they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 First five words say it all, of course it is under his current circumstances, but it doesn't make the statement any more true. Every supporter wants their team to win; ugly if needed. Did Ranieri have credibility and gravitas when his Greek team lost to the Faroe Islands? Did he have it when he was appointed at Leicester after Pearson saved them from relegation and nobody (LIneker inciluded) wanted him? But the Leicester board got it right despite the fans being dubious in the extreme. I would far rather see Everton win ugly than have 600 sideways passes and 70% possession while losing. No, Ranieri did not have much credibility post Faroe Islands and probably realised he was in a difficult position when he first joined Leicester. But he has come in and improved Leicester superbly. The acid test will be next season but he has achieved more at Leicester in one season than Martinez has done at Everton in three. And he has done it with, individually, a poorer squad imho, than Everton. So when Ranieri talks football now, I shut up and listen. When Martinez starts talking, my first thought is 'Oh Christ, what bs is he going to come out with now' He has to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) So you're saying the Leicester board got it right and needed to be trusted when everyone thought they were crazy. I agree. 26,000 fans can't be wrong, but sometimes they are. The board were vindicated almost immediately and that got the fans onside. That happened at Everton in Martinez first season but he has subsequently gone backwards at an alarming rate, shown no sign of learning or adapting and is not the man to deliver success to Everton. He has one game plan, it has been found out (making us easy to play against) and he has no plan b. He has to go. Edited May 2, 2016 by rusty747 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Just being Devil's advocate. Hate a witch-hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Its not a witch hunt Mike. I was a fan of Martinez in his first season but the last two have been very worrying. Its obvious that a lot of the fan base have had enough, there is hard evidence of players no longer buying in to his philosophy and I want only what is best for Everton Football Club. It is not a witch hunt, rather it is a sad realisation that Martinez and Everton are not a good fit and that a parting of the ways would be for the greater good of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 That would be one hell of a gamble. I would say there is more chance of us being the second team he gets relegated than that happening. But if a 5000/1 shot can win the league, who knows. I would still prefer a change though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Hate a witch-hunt. It cant be a witch hunt as I haven't got my tri-corner hat on! Just being Devil's advocate. As you have proclaimed yourself a friend of lucifer perhaps we should burn you at the stake Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 I'm not wrong because I'm not offering an opinion on it as a comment, just pointing out the fact that two different guys can say the same thing and one is lauded, the other pilloried . So that makes you wrong ! ...touché. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Leicester's 'performances' also consist of defending superbly as a unit, working tirelessly, moving the ball quickly and efficiently and having more shots per game than everyone else. That wins you football matches, anyone should applaud those sorts of performance. When Martinez defends our 'performances', he means we have made 600+ passes, and praises the team in spite of individual defensive errors, lack of cohesion, workrate and the often ponderous way we try to break teams down. That doesn't win you football matches. Congratulations Leicester btw, fully deserved and a remarkable story. bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Leicester's 'direct' style of play means that everyone has to work their balls off, if they don't it is glaringly obvious. Players can't 'hide'. The problem with the Martinez style is that players can hide, they can get away with giving only 80%. We see it most games, players jogging about (yes, Rom and Ross, I am talking about you). Even when the mighty Barcelona lose possession they are in the faces of the opposition working hard to win the ball back, same with Bayern Munich. Martinez has us trying to play like Barcelona but without the work-rate (or the players). Matt and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Watching Spurs Chelsea yesterday showed me just how far behind Spurs we are now. Ok they lost their nerve in the second half, and lost their heads too, they clearly didn't handle the situation and Chelsea punished them for it. But in the first half Spurs attacked with so much pace, defending from the front too. Closing people down, making hard challenges, and the passing for both of their goals was superb. For me, that is the new standard. Also, Leicester haven't done so bad either. Full credit to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.