johnh Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 We have a Prime Minister who does not think Britain can hack it in the modern world without the crutch of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 We have a Prime Minister who does not think Britain can hack it in the modern world without the crutch of the EU. Of course he thinks that. He answer to no-one and be able to privatize postage stamp production in the traditional Tory way. Anything that man says, assume the opposite is for the best of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Have you seen the latest figures for foreign investment? We have more new investment than either Germany or France, it has gone up by 118% in the North West for example. Gives lie to the statement about us surviving outside of EU. Figures in full on BBC by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Have you seen the latest figures for foreign investment? We have more new investment than either Germany or France, it has gone up by 118% in the North West for example. Gives lie to the statement about us surviving outside of EU. Figures in full on BBC by the way. Got the link? I can't find it. I wonder if that new investment had anything to do with the revamp of Liverpool after the £2billion of EU money was invested/is to be invested in setting up Merseyside for development: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/17-things-european-funding-done-10925208 A good point made in the final line here too: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-european-union-ever-done-7175124 Critics of the EU will point out that the UK puts far more into the EU than it takes out. But do you really think any UK government would have handed over quite so much money to regions like Merseyside to spend on its own priorities? Edited May 24, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Sorry Matt I think you would be better off checking the site or the TV news yourself. I am on my laptop and I am having a problem or two Edited May 24, 2016 by Rubecula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v2/y4/r/-PAXP-deijE.gif goes to a blank page for me mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Hang on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Bollocks!!! read up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/ggnwhite/posts/10154075262132347 Mogsy and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'm wondering with all these foreign players if the premier league will just turn into the SPL overnight. It will be all English players and the level will be championship caliber since premier league teams have only 5 English total on their squad (on average I'm guessing). I wonder if the brexit could spell the end of the big tv money premier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'm wondering with all these foreign players if the premier league will just turn into the SPL overnight. It will be all English players and the level will be championship caliber since premier league teams have only 5 English total on their squad (on average I'm guessing). I wonder if the brexit could spell the end of the big tv money premier league. Well not overnight, contracts would have to be honoured. But it will still be up to the Government who to allocate work permits to and I can't see them refusing non-British players who have a job to come to. Nothing will change. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Whatever the result it looks like it will be a close call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/donnachadh/posts/10208416893604033 MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/donnachadh/posts/10208416893604033 Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Of those EU benefits listed, how do we know that we as a nation wouldn't have applied them anyway? Or done it even better? We don't I suppose. That's the gamble. The EU was a great idea that brought many benefits to a war torn Europe. But over time, it's lost its way. It's become more of a dictatorship than a democracy. The world has developed. More options are available. I'm swinging towards OUT but I've not closed the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Of those EU benefits listed, how do we know that we as a nation wouldn't have applied them anyway? Or done it even better? We don't I suppose. That's the gamble. The EU was a great idea that brought many benefits to a war torn Europe. But over time, it's lost its way. It's become more of a dictatorship than a democracy. The world has developed. More options are available. I'm swinging towards OUT but I've not closed the book. Who's the dictator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Of those EU benefits listed, how do we know that we as a nation wouldn't have applied them anyway? Or done it even better? We don't I suppose. That's the gamble. The EU was a great idea that brought many benefits to a war torn Europe. But over time, it's lost its way. It's become more of a dictatorship than a democracy. The world has developed. More options are available. I'm swinging towards OUT but I've not closed the book. doesnt matter what might've been, the facts are there. And what other options? Edited May 25, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Of those EU benefits listed, how do we know that we as a nation wouldn't have applied them anyway? Or done it even better? We don't I suppose. That's the gamble. That's like saying, "I married my wife thirty years ago and lots of brilliant things have happened to me since; got great kids and grand kids, sure we've had our ups and downs and the in-laws are a pain at times but overall life's been good. But what would have happened if I'd married someone else ? Would life be equally as good? Or even better maybe! I think I'll get a divorce to see what my other options are, sure that Asian lass in accounts has the hots for me!" holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Not the same at all. How long have we existed without the EU? How long have we existed within the EU? Our governments don't tend to have the average joe's interest at heart. So when the Government is lobbying hard to stay in, who are they looking after? Who's at the for front of their agenda? Is it me? Who will still go to work and earn a liveable wage? Or is it the Banks and mega rich who may face a bit of turbulence due to how the markets work? I may my taxes. I have to. But who is it that doesn't pay anywhere near the correct amount of taxes who may suddenly find their lucrative loop holes aren't so big anymore? Is it the big multi national corporates? Is that the same big multi national corporates that actually hold the power? Realistically, will we suddenly collapse and fall to our knees? Will all business big and small suddenly close? Will we vote out and find tumble weed in our high streets? They talk about a recession. Does that mean we've never had a recession since being in the EU?! Doesn't a recession happen about every decade anyway? Isn't a recession actually caused by greedy individuals in banks and hedge funds etc who gamble with average joe's money? Aren't these the same banks etc that are lobbying for us to stay in the EU? Is that because, ultimately, it's easier for them to dictate markets and make more money? They say pulling out will collapse the NHS. Is that the same NHS which is already on its knees? Who really influences how well we can perform as a country? Us? Banks? Big Corporates? Our own Government? The EU? I'm just thinking out loud!!! markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Not the same at all. How long have we existed without the EU? How long have we existed within the EU? Our governments don't tend to have the average joe's interest at heart. So when the Government is lobbying hard to stay in, who are they looking after? Who's at the for front of their agenda? Is it me? Who will still go to work and earn a liveable wage? Or is it the Banks and mega rich who may face a bit of turbulence due to how the markets work? I may my taxes. I have to. But who is it that doesn't pay anywhere near the correct amount of taxes who may suddenly find their lucrative loop holes aren't so big anymore? Is it the big multi national corporates? Is that the same big multi national corporates that actually hold the power? Realistically, will we suddenly collapse and fall to our knees? Will all business big and small suddenly close? Will we vote out and find tumble weed in our high streets? They talk about a recession. Does that mean we've never had a recession since being in the EU?! Doesn't a recession happen about every decade anyway? Isn't a recession actually caused by greedy individuals in banks and hedge funds etc who gamble with average joe's money? Aren't these the same banks etc that are lobbying for us to stay in the EU? Is that because, ultimately, it's easier for them to dictate markets and make more money? They say pulling out will collapse the NHS. Is that the same NHS which is already on its knees? Who really influences how well we can perform as a country? Us? Banks? Big Corporates? Our own Government? The EU? I'm just thinking out loud!!! But who's the dictator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 If 'in' is 1/5 on with the bookies, that's good news for the 'outers'. The bookies got it spectacularly wrong at the last election, as did the pollsters. I won a bet on the last election and struck another bet at the time. That Brexit would win 55% to 45%. Have just looked at the poll above. Reading back through the thread just now John; I'm sorry to break the news to you but the TT poll is not legally binding :dont know:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 But who's the dictator? I said It's become more of a dictatorship than a democracy. In other words, it's slowly swinging the wrong way in my mind. There is no single dictator. I think thats what your question is trying to get at...name that one person. There doesn't have to be a single dictator, a single person, to be a dictatorship. It can a single political entity, in this case the EU with its unelected members, colleagues and President. In which more countries become members, adopt the currency, take out a loan at huge cost to come up to EU standards and are then pretty much stuck in the system. But again, who benefits from that? Not the average joe. Yet again it's the Banks and big multi national corporates. Ask the average joe Greek. Amongst others. So yeah, a dictatorship of sort. Not in the historical manner of the Romans Empire or Hitler. But in a modern manner of Banks and big business. Crikey. My brain hurts. Again, just thinking out loud really!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Reading back through the thread just now John; I'm sorry to break the news to you but the TT poll is not legally binding :dont know:. You taking the piss? I've ripped up my poling card and told the missus I've already voted on here. Disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I said It's become more of a dictatorship than a democracy. In other words, it's slowly swinging the wrong way in my mind. There is no single dictator. I think thats what your question is trying to get at...name that one person. There doesn't have to be a single dictator, a single person, to be a dictatorship. It can a single political entity, in this case the EU with its unelected members, colleagues and President. In which more countries become members, adopt the currency, take out a loan at huge cost to come up to EU standards and are then pretty much stuck in the system. But again, who benefits from that? Not the average joe. Yet again it's the Banks and big multi national corporates. Ask the average joe Greek. Amongst others. So yeah, a dictatorship of sort. Not in the historical manner of the Romans Empire or Hitler. But in a modern manner of Banks and big business. Crikey. My brain hurts. Again, just thinking out loud really!!! What was I voting for in the last European election then if it's made up of unelected members ? It's not a dictatorship, never has been, never will be (imo). In the UK large amounts of power rest with unelected peers and senior civil servants; I maintain the view that the EU (and it's governance) are far more democratically elected than our own law makers. Much fairer electoral system; much wider representation. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Slight side step Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 What was I voting for in the last European election then if it's made up of unelected members ? It's not a dictatorship, never has been, never will be (imo). In the UK large amounts of power rest with unelected peers and senior civil servants; I maintain the view that the EU (and it's governance) are far more democratically elected than our own law makers. Much fairer electoral system; much wider representation. Is it EC which has unelected members who all debate the new rules and regulations etc? I was watching a programme on it the other day. While the elected 'face' members just throw mud at each other, like they do here?!!! Who elected the President of the EU? And the previous one? I like what the EU is supposed to be. The idea and the foundations it was built on 'way back then' were all for good intentions. However, I feel that as it expands and welcomes in anyone and everyone, it will become more a headache for average joe than it will a benefit. And I'm all for average joe, because I think these are the people that make our countries tick but as the EU expands and grows in size and stature, average joe gets silenced and big fat greedy Banker and his mistress Mrs multi national corporates becomes ever more powerful. I fear true democracy is slowly dieing but that people aren't able to see it. We have a chance to snatch back some democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 There is no democracy. The world has evolved, politics hasn't kept up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 There is no democracy. The world has evolved, politics hasn't kept up. was gonna say it's an oligarchy over here in the states. screw the EU vote, when you gonna get rid of that queen and royal system? that would free up the tax money for the NHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 There is no democracy. The world has evolved, politics hasn't kept up. That's true. Voting for your next Government has long been a case of 'voting for the better evil'!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 was gonna say it's an oligarchy over here in the states. screw the EU vote, when you gonna get rid of that queen and royal system? that would free up the tax money for the NHS Worth a fortune in tourism though! But a bit pointless in the modern world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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