johnh Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Can we change the name of this forum now from Brexit to Regrexit, cause as the weeks go by its looking more that way. Well, it depends which paper you read. In the context of this thread, those who voted 'leave' don't have to post as they achieved their objective. All the posts are from disenchanted 'remainers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Italy will be next with Itexit by the look of things Not likely. The No in the Italian referendum and the Brexit vote are two totally different things. The Italian referendum was about constitutional changes that were also opposed by many pro-EU center-left leaders. If passed the constitutional reform would have greatly expanded the powers of government and would have removed a lot of checks and balances. The reason the EU Commission and the EU council were hoping for a "yes" in the Italian referendum was because a NO would create instability given that another Italian PM would resign so quickly after taking office; not because the EU had any real stake in it either being yes or no. I understand the appeal of trying to interpret the No in Italian referendum as part of a whole anti-EU sentiment that is sweeping the continent and will take down the entire EU because the last couple of months has convinced most people that the only way the UK will be better off after Brexit, is if it's not negotiating with a bloc of 27 unified countries. Sadly, just because some British tabloids make it up as fact, doesn't make it true. If the Austrian elections had resulted in Hofer (far right candidate) winning it, I'm sure the Daily Mail and the Sun would be writing that an Austria-exit was coming. Even though Hofer himself has said that he wants a strong EU and has pointed toward Farage supporting him as one of the reasons he lost. Edited December 8, 2016 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Well, it depends which paper you read. In the context of this thread, those who voted 'leave' don't have to post as they achieved their objective. All the posts are from disenchanted 'remainers'. I think it's because Leave has nothing to say but platitudes like "red white and blue" . I do post a bit in this thread and as stated in my first post in this thread I'm a huge fan of Leave. Also, I find the (legal) implications of the brexit vote very interesting and believe there is much to say (post) on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The next step is invoking Article 50. What is said prior to that is irrelevant, the least said the better. It will come out during negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Fair enough. But none of the people who might post here have any influence on the negotiations so it wouldn't hurt if they said what they thought would be important to do when or where or how .. Edited December 8, 2016 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The next step is invoking Article 50. What is said prior to that is irrelevant, the least said the better. It will come out during negotiations.the more the better in my opinion, it'll actually show sign that they have a clue about what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 the more the better in my opinion, it'll actually show sign that they have a clue about what's going on. I actually do understand the politicians not completely revealing their strategy (if they have one), but that doesn't mean people on here who truely believe in Leave can't post about what they think about freedom of movement vs access to the single market, if the UK can or should just fall back on WTO rules or not, if international coorporation has gone to far and the nation-state should become more important, etc.. It's OK to not have an opinion on this but if johnh believes the only people who post here are 'remoaners' because there is nothing to say for the people who voted leave, I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 the more the better in my opinion, it'll actually show sign that they have a clue about what's going on. Except they plainly don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I actually do understand the politicians not completely revealing their strategy (if they have one), but that doesn't mean people on here who truely believe in Leave can't post about what they think about freedom of movement vs access to the single market, if the UK can or should just fall back on WTO rules or not, if international coorporation has gone to far and the nation-state should become more important, etc.. It's OK to not have an opinion on this but if johnh believes the only people who post here are 'remoaners' because there is nothing to say for the people who voted leave, I disagree. theres one thing in keeping your hands close to your chest, with which I'd agree with. But considering the fact that they didnt even plan for the referendum, let alone the aftermath, it would basic public service to say "right, if this is what you want, fine. This is our headline plan". Past invoking art.50, there is no plan and that phrase of "invoking art.50" is like responding to a question on University Challenge with "ok..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Really want to unleash my true feelings on this topic but out of respect to others I shan't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 theres one thing in keeping your hands close to your chest, with which I'd agree with. But considering the fact that they didnt even plan for the referendum, let alone the aftermath, it would basic public service to say "right, if this is what you want, fine. This is our headline plan". Past invoking art.50, there is no plan and that phrase of "invoking art.50" is like responding to a question on University Challenge with "ok..." More like, "I know the answer but I'm not going to tell you, that's ten points to me from the Mail, Sun, Express, Star and Telegraph" followed by (fake) smug "I know something you don't" grin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 More like, "I know the answer but I'm not going to tell you, that's ten points to me from the Mail, Sun, Express, Star and Telegraph" followed by (fake) smug "I know something you don't" grin.dont agree there man. It's too easy to use a blanket statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 dont agree there man. It's too easy to use a blanket statement. Just tugging the tiger's tail Matt . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I've been following @Law_and_policy on Twitter. It's been pretty interesting reading the summaries from the Supreme Court. Chach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 The next step is invoking Article 50. What is said prior to that is irrelevant, the least said the better. It will come out during negotiations.How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I've been following @Law_and_policy on Twitter. It's been pretty interesting reading the summaries from the Supreme Court. I follow him aswell but I thought he's a bit too much with the legal mumbo jumbo to appeal to a broad audience. Though if you like him I'd also recommend @mattholehouse. These are the people I follow to keep up with everything Brexit: @Law_and_policy @DaveKeating @mattholehouse @APHClarkson (also my favorite tweeter on anything else, really interesting man (he's a lecturer at King's College London)) @rdanielkelemen @jonlis1 @IanDunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 A Niall Ferguson video was posted on this site supporting the 'remain' cause. In the Sunday Times today, there is an article by Niall Ferguson saying 'sorry' and how wrong he was to oppose Brexit. Extracts from the article are: ' EU leaders richly deserved Brexit and British voters were right to give them it'. 'I was wrong about Brexit and I was wrong for the wrong reasons. But now divorce proceedings are getting under way and it is a relief to be back on the right side. The good news? Not only was I wrong about Brexit, so were the EU leaders. And its people know it.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 If there was some form of a plan, before and since, things would be a lot more positive. Until then, were in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 A Niall Ferguson video was posted on this site supporting the 'remain' cause. In the Sunday Times today, there is an article by Niall Ferguson saying 'sorry' and how wrong he was to oppose Brexit. Extracts from the article are: ' EU leaders richly deserved Brexit and British voters were right to give them it'. 'I was wrong about Brexit and I was wrong for the wrong reasons. But now divorce proceedings are getting under way and it is a relief to be back on the right side. The good news? Not only was I wrong about Brexit, so were the EU leaders. And its people know it.' So that's five million out voters who think they made a mistake v one remain voter who thinks he got it wrong. Case closed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Mike, don't know where you got your 5 million from, maybe it was a poll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Mike, don't know where you got your 5 million from, maybe it was a poll? It was a fact I invented; wanted to keep the spirit of the referendum campaign going . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 It was a fact I invented; wanted to keep the spirit of the referendum campaign going . maybe you could promise millions to TT only to take that pledge back the moment it went your way, plunging the forum into untold billions of debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Dave Keating @DaveKeating 1h1 hour ago The problem with UK media: even pro-EU publications don't know how EU works. Brits aren't taught this in school. http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-associated-citizenship-eu-brexit-verhofstadt-barnier/ Tough time for British people trying to be informed if both the anti-EU-media as well as the pro-EU-media is constantly factually wrong. Not a coincidence the public debate on the EU in the UK is of such poor quality. Edited December 12, 2016 by holystove Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Written by an economist who doesn't believe Brexit will be positive for the UK but he does back it up with some interesting data. http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 It is all bollocks anyway. The vote is over, lets get on with it and see what happens, nobody knows yet as it has never happened before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 It is all bollocks anyway. The vote is over, lets get on with it and see what happens, nobody knows yet as it has never happened before. Bit like saying we've had a general election and the people have decided so no need for another one ever however shit the government turns out to be. Screw the next generation's opinion, the deal is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 not really Mike, parliamentary elections have to be held at least every 5 years, Nobody has said if and when we vote again on EU membership. besides with the Euro vote we all had two choices - in or out - parliament has multiple choice. I can not see the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Bit like saying we've had a general election and the people have decided so no need for another one ever however shit the government turns out to be. Screw the next generation's opinion, the deal is done. How many years went by before we could vote to leave or remain? About 40, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Fail to prepare, prepare to fail http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38324146 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 How many years went by before we could vote to leave or remain? About 40, right? Rubecula said parliamentary elections in the UK are held every five years .. so 5 years? In a parliamentary democracy people choose representatives to make decisions on the many things that need to be decided but they don't have the knowledge (or time to acquire the knowledge - or access to the knowledge) to make an informed decision. how many years have gone by thus far where they haven't asked the question if everybody wants to pay 1000£ less taxes every year? I can just see it on the side of a bus : "Why are you sending 1000£ to elitist London when you could be spending it on yourself?" I'm sure there would be a bigger victory in that referendum than 52-48. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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