Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[StevO]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

Youth players with less minutes than last year: 5+; Holgate, Kenny, Baningime, Davies, Vlasic, DCL (although will be roughly the same if plays next three). 

Debutants given: 0

Holgate, not good enough. 

Kenny, not good enough. 

Beni, not good enough. 

Davies, kept out by two exceptional midfielders. 

Vlasic, not good enough. 

DCL, it’s taken until the last few months to get good enough and still has work to do. 

Debutants, we haven’t got anyone in the U23s ready to push into the team yet. 

[Matt]

10 hours ago, StevO said:

Holgate, not good enough. 

Kenny, not good enough. 

Beni, not good enough. 

Davies, kept out by two exceptional midfielders. 

Vlasic, not good enough. 

DCL, it’s taken until the last few months to get good enough and still has work to do. 

Debutants, we haven’t got anyone in the U23s ready to push into the team yet. 

Disagree with all of them not being good enough, they’ve just all got better players ahead of them. If they were given a run, I think all could go on to be very good players (Beni aside, but only because I’ve seen very little of him) 

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Disagree with all of them not being good enough, they’ve just all got better players ahead of them. If they were given a run, I think all could go on to be very good players (Beni aside, but only because I’ve seen very little of him) 

I think this is our fans flaws most the time Matt. We rate our youth not good enough if they aren’t better than top end, experiences premier league players.

I have said many times on many threads, that if they are getting payed to play premier league football and they are even just in the squad at times, then they have made it and are good enough. 

Someone go over and tell Vlasic to his face that he isn’t good enough. I wonder if he will just smirk at you, or glass his fancy car and clothes in your face. Not that I think he is good enough for our first team, from what I see of him. But he’s certainly good enough to be at our club.

[Deacs]

16 hours ago, hafnia said:

If you watched bracewell you are looking at an earlier version of Gueye.....  he won 2 leagues an fa cup and a ecwc and he was critical to us. 7 goals in 95 games..... awesome tackler. Great engine.....

Terrible shame he suffered the injury he did as he was moving into the peak of his career 

[Finn balor]

I loved joe Parkinson aswell 

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

Disagree with all of them not being good enough, they’ve just all got better players ahead of them. If they were given a run, I think all could go on to be very good players (Beni aside, but only because I’ve seen very little of him) 

Then you do agree with me. If better players are ahead they won’t play, so they aren’t good enough. They will all be good players, but if they aren’t better than we have already then that’s not good enough for us.

[Matt]

40 minutes ago, StevO said:

Then you do agree with me. If better players are ahead they won’t play, so they aren’t good enough. They will all be good players, but if they aren’t better than we have already then that’s not good enough for us.

Well, no, because we need a squad, not just a starting 11 and all those mentioned are good enough to step in to fill a gap and good enough to invest in for the future in my opinion. Not good enough for me means they have no role to play, all those you mentioned could and should.

[StevO]

32 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well, no, because we need a squad, not just a starting 11 and all those mentioned are good enough to step in to fill a gap and good enough to invest in for the future in my opinion. Not good enough for me means they have no role to play, all those you mentioned could and should.

Davies and DCL will play big roles, I don’t doubt that. The others, they will have to go some distance to be good enough to make a career with us. I’m sure they will all have decent careers, but not with teams at the top end of the premier league. 

Holgate wont be challenging any of our centre backs any time soon, I don’t think he’s good enough at right back for us. 

Kenny could do with a year playing every week on loan if he wants to improve. 

Beni has never really impressed me at first team level in his few games, I think he needs a lot more work. 

Vlasic I do rate, but he’s not as good as our current options and won’t be around much longer I don’t think. Though I’d love him to make the grade at Everton because he’s exciting. 

The one thing I’m fully certain of is that they haven’t missed out because Marco won’t play the kids, it’s because there are better options. 

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, StevO said:

Davies and DCL will play big roles, I don’t doubt that. The others, they will have to go some distance to be good enough to make a career with us. I’m sure they will all have decent careers, but not with teams at the top end of the premier league. 

Holgate wont be challenging any of our centre backs any time soon, I don’t think he’s good enough at right back for us. 

Kenny could do with a year playing every week on loan if he wants to improve. 

Beni has never really impressed me at first team level in his few games, I think he needs a lot more work. 

Vlasic I do rate, but he’s not as good as our current options and won’t be around much longer I don’t think. Though I’d love him to make the grade at Everton because he’s exciting. 

The one thing I’m fully certain of is that they haven’t missed out because Marco won’t play the kids, it’s because there are better options. 

Davies is and always will be a squad player and at a great for us. Whether that’s good enough for him is another matter but I see him being like Ossie to be honest. 

DCL needed investing in, giving a good solid run, and now we’re reaping the rewards - Kenny and Holgate need that for me and I think Holgate will give Mina serious competition for the second CB slot of Zouma doesn’t stay. Kenny could do with a loan, but I have a feeling about him. If Coleman hadn’t found his stride in the new year I think the question of whether or not he’s a future lead RB or not, but for now he’s a reliable backup who can step in. 

I thought Beni was the highlight of the games he played, especially considering the circumstances, because he was like a mini Gana.

I really hope we convince Vlasic to stay; work ethic, velcro feet and tenacious - perfect for a high press. 

But, finally, “not good enough” means shouldn’t wear the shirt. All the above have proven valuable and could yet prove solid “free” first teamers if needed. 

[Finn balor]

I think Kenny will end up a championship player. Keep vlasic and get Henry back hopefully. Good young fullbacks at Norwich who both got in championship teams of the year and the lad on loan at Wigan who plays for Chelsea 

[pete0]

18 hours ago, c1982 said:

This youth argument is nonsense. Brands and Silva clearly have a long-term plan to reduce the age of the squad - they’ve already got rid of ‘older’ players with no future which is ongoing and not an easy task due to many factors. I feel Davies is peteO’s main qualm - I personally don’t think he’s good enough to start each week and certainly not better than Gana, Gomes or Gylfi - I’d have maybe picked him ahead of Schneiderlin but credit where it’s due, he’s done well when called upon and the choice was certainly justified on Sunday. Kenny isn’t great in my opinion - I like him as back-up but nothing more - I prefer Holgate and his loan at WBA is proving a great success. Who new should be getting a chance? I’m pretty sure if there was someone ready now, they’d get a chance.... u18 - u23 is a massive step-up - u23 - first team is a giant leap. We’ve got too many players as it is so seeing new talent making that leap this season was always going to be highly unlikely.

 

5 hours ago, Matt said:

Disagree with all of them not being good enough, they’ve just all got better players ahead of them. If they were given a run, I think all could go on to be very good players (Beni aside, but only because I’ve seen very little of him) 

We had a really poor patch after the first derby were any of the starting eleven could have been replaced with minimal damage if the kid starting wasn't good enough as the starting players weren't doing much. Worst case starting a kid during that period was we would have been no poorer on the pitch and a kid gets a taster to help him develop. 

If something is stale you make a change. Silva done nothing. Plodded along to the point some people cut their season tickets in half. 

Like Matt says we need a squad. 

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Well, no, because we need a squad, not just a starting 11 and all those mentioned are good enough to step in to fill a gap and good enough to invest in for the future in my opinion. Not good enough for me means they have no role to play, all those you mentioned could and should.

 

[Wiggytop]

15 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If something is stale you make a change. Silva done nothing. Plodded along to the point some people cut their season tickets in half. 

That's plain stupid to me, if you don't want to go, let someone else  use it, I'm sure there are plenty who can't afford a ticket who would like to take advantage. (And I'm not saying your stupid for writing it BTW )

[Finn balor]

Some people cut their season tickets in half? Did u actually see that? You talk some shite 

[pete0]

32 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

That's plain stupid to me, if you don't want to go, let someone else  use it, I'm sure there are plenty who can't afford a ticket who would like to take advantage. (And I'm not saying your stupid for writing it BTW )

Frustration of three years worth of bollocks. Personally been times I've felt it to be a chore and I'm sure many would agree. I couldn't even give my ticket away for some of the games last year. 

17 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Some people cut their season tickets in half? Did u actually see that? You talk some shite 

Yes. 

[Matt]

Got to say, Pete, was worried when you quoted me for a minute  can’t say he didn’t change anything, he just took a long time to realise a change was needed. At least he made it, for me that’s a huge surprise 

[Wiggytop]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Frustration of three years worth of bollocks. Personally been times I've felt it to be a chore and I'm sure many would agree. I couldn't even give my ticket away for some of the games last year. 

I know, after the last home game last season, the guys in front of me turned round, and almost in unison we said " thank god that's over for this season" Being an optimist I always think we will be better next game, hasn't been too bad the last few home games eh!

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

But, finally, “not good enough” means shouldn’t wear the shirt. All the above have proven valuable and could yet prove solid “free” first teamers if needed. 

I see “not good enough” as someone who isn’t going to be good enough to make the first team, not good enough to make a difference. I just don’t see enough in these lads to see that. Not shouldn’t wear the shirt, they are all good lads, I just don’t think they possess enough talent to make the grade apart from the three mentioned. 

You know me well enough to know id love nothing more than to be proved wrong by all of these lads. Nothing better than home grown players in the side. 

[Matt]

39 minutes ago, StevO said:

I see “not good enough” as someone who isn’t going to be good enough to make the first team, not good enough to make a difference. I just don’t see enough in these lads to see that. Not shouldn’t wear the shirt, they are all good lads, I just don’t think they possess enough talent to make the grade apart from the three mentioned. 

You know me well enough to know id love nothing more than to be proved wrong by all of these lads. Nothing better than home grown players in the side. 

But they have made the first team when needed and largely been good. Just because someone is better than them in a position doesn’t mean they’re not good enough, it means there’s someone better.

Someone who isn’t good enough isnt worthy of a squad number for me. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

But they have made the first team when needed and largely been good. Just because someone is better than them in a position doesn’t mean they’re not good enough, it means there’s someone better.

Someone who isn’t good enough isnt worthy of a squad number for me. 

They’ve done a job in the team when needed, but I’m sure they all have ambitions to play every week. I think if that’s what they want they’ll end up elsewhere, if not replaced by more signings in the coming seasons. 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, StevO said:

They’ve done a job in the team when needed, but I’m sure they all have ambitions to play every week. I think if that’s what they want they’ll end up elsewhere, if not replaced by more signings in the coming seasons. 

Don’t disagree with any of that, just the cut off for not good enough, so agree to disagree there  

[Shukes]

Just watched the highlights again.

It was a simple pass to make. But the telling point is that Gana was in our own penalty area with UTD attacking us.

He then steps in to make an interception, plays the ball out to the wing, runs forward and accepts the one-two, has a great first touch which instantly puts us into a counter attacking position, while injecting a big deal of pace, then passes the ball to Siggy, who earns Gana an assist.

I really don’t see Davies doing that at all. As much as a rate Davies, he would have protected that ball, as there weren’t many options ahead of him.

[Hafnia]

Amazing what you get people to do pete ... you create an invalid arguement to detract away from the prior shite that you spouted which gets debunked.....

 

Ganas shit ..... he's not shit he's played well..... what did he do that was exceptional...... no one said he's exceptional at anything in particular he gets us on the ball and it's valuable ..... Tom Davies could do that - it's the managers fault for not developing youth.....

 

You have 2 agendas.... one to slate gana at the expense of Davies (previously schneiderlein bit I think you have even given up that ghost) the other is to say that we haven't improved under Silva...... and that allardyce should still be here. 

 

[Hafnia]

On 24/04/2019 at 15:33, pete0 said:

Still waiting for that exhaustive list of exceptional things he's done to contribute above and beyond what Davies would have done. 

Should add the pass, the one to Sigurdssen is actually quite poor, it slowed the attack. Sigurdssen does very well to score given the service and how far out he is, lovely strike, but at the same time it's poor from the opposition to leave him that much space. 

Gana played during the period we were poor, was he not responsible for our lack of tempo going forward as well as giving changes away too easily? 

United were terrible. Look at the space they give us, their players weren't up for it and their manager was shocking putting rashford and Lindelof against Bernard and Digne. 

We've come across one team up for it in recent weeks and we got beat comfortably 2 nil. Why did Fulham beat us? 

 

Just on this Pete .....

Roy Keane .... what are the exceptional things he did that made him such a revered player?

[pete0]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Just watched the highlights again.

It was a simple pass to make. But the telling point is that Gana was in our own penalty area with UTD attacking us.

He then steps in to make an interception, plays the ball out to the wing, runs forward and accepts the one-two, has a great first touch which instantly puts us into a counter attacking position, while injecting a big deal of pace, then passes the ball to Siggy, who earns Gana an assist.

I really don’t see Davies doing that at all. As much as a rate Davies, he would have protected that ball, as there weren’t many options ahead of him.

The pass to Sigurdssen is very poor an almost stops the attack, it should be a simple pass but he doesn't get the direction or weight right. Like you say Sigurdssen earned Gana the assist. 

3 hours ago, hafnia said:

Just on this Pete .....

Roy Keane .... what are the exceptional things he did that made him such a revered player?

His attitude, he was a winner. He owned his area of the pitch. You wouldn't get clear chances through the middle with Keane he was too proud. 

[Aidan]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Just watched the highlights again.

It was a simple pass to make. But the telling point is that Gana was in our own penalty area with UTD attacking us.

He then steps in to make an interception, plays the ball out to the wing, runs forward and accepts the one-two, has a great first touch which instantly puts us into a counter attacking position, while injecting a big deal of pace, then passes the ball to Siggy, who earns Gana an assist.

I really don’t see Davies doing that at all. As much as a rate Davies, he would have protected that ball, as there weren’t many options ahead of him.

From memory I thought the pass was the only place he could have put it. Siggy isnt beating the defender for pace, so slows his run the create space, then Gana passes to him. From memory there is still a player between Gana and Siggy that could have intercepted the ball - so he did well. but I might be wrong.

[pete0]

17 minutes ago, Aidan said:

From memory I thought the pass was the only place he could have put it. Siggy isnt beating the defender for pace, so slows his run the create space, then Gana passes to him. From memory there is still a player between Gana and Siggy that could have intercepted the ball - so he did well. but I might be wrong.

Gana takes an extra touch so loses the momentum of the attack. After that touch it would be more logical for him to carry his run on rather than square the ball behind Sigurdssen/pass on responsibility. 

For me you either pass it in front of Sigurdssen whilst they are still scrambling back or instead of the small touch keep it in your stride and carry the ball forward. Gana takes the little touch so he can just pass on responsibility like its not his job to carry the ball forward. 

[Matt]

Nearly doesn’t count or matter. He made it, Siggy scores. Simple. 

[Paddock]

Anyone still thinking he’s shit and the worst player to pull on an Everton shirt- anyone? 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

. Gana takes the little touch so he can just pass on responsibility like its not his job to carry the ball forward. 

It’s not his job to carry the ball forward, but he does it anyway. 

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

The pass to Sigurdssen is very poor an almost stops the attack, it should be a simple pass but he doesn't get the direction or weight right. Like you say Sigurdssen earned Gana the assist. 

His attitude, he was a winner. He owned his area of the pitch. You wouldn't get clear chances through the middle with Keane he was too proud. 

What did he do that was exceptional.... it sounds like you are describing Gana there..... come on.....  attitude - a huge positive trait for Gana, owning the pitch....

 

You need to differentiate Keane from Gana a bit better..... he just used to win it and give it simple- rarely beat a man or played a through ball. Gave it wide to beckham or giggs or played it to scholes to do his stuff with.....

What did Keane do that was exceptional. Specifics now.... after all that's what we need to do to justify the selection for the  "worst player to ever wear an Everton shirt."

Tell me the exceptional things that Keane did and probably Scott gemmill did that made them both stand out and that makes gana the worst player to ever wear an Everton shirt.