Leicester City (Home) Tuesday January 1st

[pete0]

5 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I dont agree and even if I did that doesnt support that we have a poor defence. Leicester werent even pressing us when that mistake came, Brighton got lucky from the ball hitting Gomes and it going to their man 4 yards out, Burnley was a goal mouth scramble which could have gone anywhere and even Liverpool was a complete howler. Newcastle had a couple of chances late on when we were chasing the game but not many otherwise and Watford did nothing for 45 mins before ripping us apart in the 2nd. Less said about City and Spurs the better though!

I just dont buy into us being a poor defensive side. Silva has made mistakes for sure, and we do take some risks, risks that would be accepted a lot more if we were scoring goals, but we are light years ahead of where we were this time last year in terms of performances. The problem is that whilst last year we picked up points we didnt deserve, this year we are dropping points we do deserve.

I don't think it's the defence either. Coleman and Digne get caught now and again but it's the midfield that's the problem. We've conceded some very unlucky goals but at the same time we've been giving away chances that the opposition should've scored with the main game that comes to mind the Fulham one when they could have easily scored 3. Liverpool had Shaqiri one v one, and Pickford has enough motm votes to shows he's stopping good chances/we're giving them chances away. 

Spurs game was a one off I hope, they were just very clinical, every chance bar one went in. Another day it would have 'only' been three goals. City game was pathetic though we didn't make them work for it at all and that seems the biggest issue at the minute we don't make teams earn it, we gift it. Whereas we have to graft a lot harder to create our goals and don't capitalise on mistakes as clinically as we get punished for them. 

[Keith B]

We are what we are: A mid-table side that is about as far away from the Champions League as we are from relegation. This is an opportunity to invest in process, not players. We absolutely shouldn't buy in-their-prime players in January. There are very few of those players that would actually lift Everton into the top six and even fewer that want to play for Everton and fewer still that we can actually afford. The ones that are for sale will demand exorbitant fees. The bottom line is that Everton is not in position to buy in prime players as a way to make it into the top 6. 

We can, however, invest in youth development and youth talent identification. We have very few players that have come from the Academy...off the top of my head DCL, Davies, and Kenny. All three of those are too young to make final judgments on, but they don't look (to me) to be Champions League quality players. Our academy has to improve. Further, club leadership needs to have a pathway/plan for the club. Are you confident that Moshiri/Kenwright  have a vision for how to lift us into the UCL? I sure don't...so far Moshiri's plan has been to buy in-prime players and hope for the best. It is hard to say how much of that is on the previous coaches and directors of football but the owners are the accountable parties for vision and club culture. Maybe Brands and Silva have taken steps in that direction--it is hard for me to tell from where I sit. 

The bottom line is that we are not going to be able to compete with the same strategies as nation state supported clubs and plutocrat owned clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea. But even worse, I'm not sure Everton has a strategy to compete with those teams at all. Not even a bad one. A well run club doesn't buy Cenk Tosuns and Omaur Niasses in January. (And I like both of those players more than most people.) In neither case were we a striker away from the UCL or relegation. 

That's why I think we stick with Silva and Brands. The purchases we made this summer were much more savvy than in previous years. You'd hope though, that those purchases would be a reason why you'd expect to beat Leicester City at home. We didn't do that (and haven't beaten Newcastle and Watford at home either), which is disappointing but it shouldn't lead us to panic and bring in an overpriced and mediocre striker this January. 

 

[Romey 1878]

I watched this game hungover to shit, with barely any sleep, and I’d much rather have that hangover again tomorrow than watch the shit that I sat through today. 

Shambolic. 

[chicagoblue]

5 hours ago, sibdane said:

Yeah, Gomes is struggling, but he'll get up to pace soon. 

It was painfully obvious at Brighton that he isn'tt fit our is exhausted. Daft to have started him today he needed a rest. Sound have been Gana and Siggy in midfield.

5 hours ago, London Blue said:

It's probably fatigue, he hasn't played much with Barcelona and now we're expecting him to play a full season in the Premier League without a winter break and not see his skill and energy levels  drop off. 

Exactly

5 hours ago, hafnia said:

Walcott... took us from an attack to near conceding. Quality on the ball awful. 

Either he's done or this is a shocking drop in form. Doesn't look like he could score in a brothel

4 hours ago, hafnia said:

Silva really doesn't know his best side.... he is tinkering and tinkering.

Today was worrying. From the 30th minute it was clear wet needed a double sub (Gomes and Walcott) at half. How he failed to see that is beyond me.

4 hours ago, Aidan said:

Kenny has been good IMO. In fact he's been better than Coleman has been.

He's an attacking minded full back who can't cross a ball... That said I'd keep him ahead of Coleman at the moment

4 hours ago, barryj said:

Bernard has shown urgency and commitment in his short spell on that most in the whole 90 mins

He was much better today, as a sub, and that's my fear with him. I don't think we can rely on him as a starter he simply didn't have the physicality to battle it out for 90 minutes.

 

Richarlison like Gomes looking exhausted. Hope we play a reserve 11 against Lincoln, the first team needs a week of sleep by the looks of it.

[pete0]

23 minutes ago, Keith B said:

That's why I think we stick with Silva and Brands. The purchases we made this summer were much more savvy than in previous years. You'd hope though, that those purchases would be a reason why you'd expect to beat Leicester City at home. We didn't do that (and haven't beaten Newcastle and Watford at home either), which is disappointing but it shouldn't lead us to panic and bring in an overpriced and mediocre striker this January. 

Agree about Brands, given his signings you would expect the manager to be doing better. Brands has made Silva’s job easier than Sam Alladyce's yet fat Sam got more points per game with the shite he inherited from Koeman/Walsh. If Silva doesn't find some consistency soon I expect we'll see Unsworth getting a third stint as caretaker. 

[jofanon]

For me it stops and starts in the engine room

Gana, Sig, Gomes isn’t working at the moment and to be honest I don’t think it’s right anwwya

 Gana had another strong game today but imo he’s too limited.  The idea you need a dedicated defensive midfielder I think is old school. It became fashionable with Makele but the game has moved on.

i want my centre mids  to do everything. Doucoure would be a major boost imo.

I think Sig is a great 10 but had an off day.

Gomes clearly tired (not unexpected).

 

[chicagoblue]

3 hours ago, hafnia said:

Agreed. Lacking leadership in the spine of the team. 

I would let Gomes go... for me he seems to lack bottle. We need a no nonsense personality in there. 

I like a lot of what you say, but fuck off. A blind man can see that he's simply unfit at the moment. He's one of the few players who is at the level we want to be at.

[nogs]

35 minutes ago, Keith B said:

We are what we are: A mid-table side that is about as far away from the Champions League as we are from relegation. This is an opportunity to invest in process, not players. We absolutely shouldn't buy in-their-prime players in January. There are very few of those players that would actually lift Everton into the top six and even fewer that want to play for Everton and fewer still that we can actually afford. The ones that are for sale will demand exorbitant fees. The bottom line is that Everton is not in position to buy in prime players as a way to make it into the top 6. 

We can, however, invest in youth development and youth talent identification. We have very few players that have come from the Academy...off the top of my head DCL, Davies, and Kenny. All three of those are too young to make final judgments on, but they don't look (to me) to be Champions League quality players. Our academy has to improve. Further, club leadership needs to have a pathway/plan for the club. Are you confident that Moshiri/Kenwright  have a vision for how to lift us into the UCL? I sure don't...so far Moshiri's plan has been to buy in-prime players and hope for the best. It is hard to say how much of that is on the previous coaches and directors of football but the owners are the accountable parties for vision and club culture. Maybe Brands and Silva have taken steps in that direction--it is hard for me to tell from where I sit. 

The bottom line is that we are not going to be able to compete with the same strategies as nation state supported clubs and plutocrat owned clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea. But even worse, I'm not sure Everton has a strategy to compete with those teams at all. Not even a bad one. A well run club doesn't buy Cenk Tosuns and Omaur Niasses in January. (And I like both of those players more than most people.) In neither case were we a striker away from the UCL or relegation. 

That's why I think we stick with Silva and Brands. The purchases we made this summer were much more savvy than in previous years. You'd hope though, that those purchases would be a reason why you'd expect to beat Leicester City at home. We didn't do that (and haven't beaten Newcastle and Watford at home either), which is disappointing but it shouldn't lead us to panic and bring in an overpriced and mediocre striker this January. 

 

Great post. I agree with all of that. I hate watching us play like today but this is the fifth season running I've felt this mix of frustration and empty resignation heading into the new year. The only way that is going to change is with vision, leadership, strategy and patience. In the meantime, learn to live with feeling like shit at every bollox performance like today. We won't buy our way out of mediocrity, we've tried that and we've got worse. We need people in charge who can build a team regardless of the names on the shirt. 

[nogs]

6 minutes ago, jofanon said:

For me it stops and starts in the engine room

Gana, Sig, Gomes isn’t working at the moment and to be honest I don’t think it’s right anwwya

 Gana had another strong game today but imo he’s too limited.  The idea you need a dedicated defensive midfielder I think is old school. It became fashionable with Makele but the game has moved on.

i want my centre mids  to do everything. Doucoure would be a major boost imo.

I think Sig is a great 10 but had an off day.

Gomes clearly tired (not unexpected).

 

I think Sigurdssons defensive limitations are as big a problem as Gana's lack of creativity on the ball. When teams play three players centrally we get overrun. 

[Keith B]

3 minutes ago, nogs said:

Great post. I agree with all of that. I hate watching us play like today but this is the fifth season running I've felt this mix of frustration and empty resignation heading into the new year. The only way that is going to change is with vision, leadership, strategy and patience. In the meantime, learn to live with feeling like shit at every bollox performance like today. We won't buy our way out of mediocrity, we've tried that and we've got worse. We need people in charge who can build a team regardless of the names on the shirt. 

That's right--we had about five days this season when we thought we might be top six quality. But other than that, most of the last five seasons have been mid-table futility. We lucked into a Europa league spot two seasons ago and flamed out fast. Doing more of the same will net us more of the same. 

Spurs are battering Cardiff as I type this and another thing we lack is player development. Two or three seasons ago we thought we were getting Mousa Sissoko but he changed his mind and went to Spurs at the last minute. I was actually happy about that at the time--I thought he was overrated. However, after a couple of seasons under Poch, he's improved his game and is a valuable piece for a top four side. Does anyone believe that he would have improved playing for Everton? Can you name a player in the last five years that clearly improved during his time in the first team? Something has gone wrong on that front as well and is something that can be addressed with proper prioritization and investment. Or at least more easily and cheaply addressed than "We need a striker that can score 20 goals."

 

[pete0]

14 minutes ago, Keith B said:

That's right--we had about five days this season when we thought we might be top six quality. But other than that, most of the last five seasons have been mid-table futility. We lucked into a Europa league spot two seasons ago and flamed out fast. Doing more of the same will net us more of the same. 

Spurs are battering Cardiff as I type this and another thing we lack is player development. Two or three seasons ago we thought we were getting Mousa Sissoko but he changed his mind and went to Spurs at the last minute. I was actually happy about that at the time--I thought he was overrated. However, after a couple of seasons under Poch, he's improved his game and is a valuable piece for a top four side. Does anyone believe that he would have improved playing for Everton? Can you name a player in the last five years that clearly improved during his time in the first team? Something has gone wrong on that front as well and is something that can be addressed with proper prioritization and investment. Or at least more easily and cheaply addressed than "We need a striker that can score 20 goals."

 

Stones, Barkley and Lukaku in the recent past. The managers since Martinez have been a bit more reluctant to use kids but the club still looks after them properly getting them loan moves and not getting in the way of their career progression. 

Of the current crop DCL and Holgate, although the latter has been stifled by Keane. Davies to a point, although stifled by Barry leaving. Kenny, Dowell, and Lookman all seem to be getting nurtured for the future too. 

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

I like a lot of what you say, but fuck off. A blind man can see that he's simply unfit at the moment. He's one of the few players who is at the level we want to be at.

He is a player of undoubted quality.   I was all for spending £50m plus on him....  but  I also believe Ross Barkley is a £70m player if you could get the best out of him on a regular basis. 

Lets hope it is tiredness/a knock.... cos I have seen him have 2 bad Ross Barkley games in a row now. 

I'm not comparing him to Barkley... I'm saying that he may have a fragile mindset like Ross.  The money it will cost to get him means we need to be sure.

[nogs]

24 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Stones, Barkley and Lukaku in the recent past. The managers since Martinez have been a bit more reluctant to use kids but the club still looks after them properly getting them loan moves and not getting in the way of their career progression. 

Of the current crop DCL and Holgate, although the latter has been stifled by Keane. Davies to a point, although stifled by Barry leaving. Kenny, Dowell, and Lookman all seem to be getting nurtured for the future too. 

To carry on the Spurs comparison though, Harry Winks now looks every bit a top 4 player. He has no natural attributes Davies doesn't have, so you can only assume it's confidence and coaching. And I don't think we came near to helping Barkley fulfil his potential, too much expectation too soon. We have a great academy, our record for young players becoming established in our first team isn'tt great though. 

[seve]

I dont think harry winks would get in any top 4 side he fills in at spurs, if he was somewhere else spurs or any other top 4 side would not give him s a second glanc

[nogs]

None of our players are at the level we want to be at. Gomes has looked promising yes but I don't see why anyone should be excused a run of poor performances, we want players who consistently hit a level that will propel us into the top 6. And that's the key, consistency, no one in our squad is showing that. 

[nogs]

Just now, seve said:

I dont think harry winks would get in any top 4 side he fills in at spurs, if he was somewhere else spurs or any other top 4 side would not give him s a second glanc

He is starting every game at a team right on the coat tails of City and Liverpool. What more qualification do you need to be a top 4 player? 

[pete0]

1 minute ago, nogs said:

He is starting every game at a team right on the coat tails of City and Liverpool. What more qualification do you need to be a top 4 player? 

Just checked and Winks is a bad example. The previous two seasons Davies played twice as many minutes as him and this year Winks has played a bit more that Davies. 

[nogs]

6 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just checked and Winks is a bad example. The previous two seasons Davies played twice as many minutes as him and this year Winks has played a bit more that Davies. 

Winks is a full England International and is starting to look the player we hoped Davies would be. Davies has looked poor and shot for confidence for months. 

[MikeO]

8 hours ago, Bailey said:

I thought we were very good first half, bar Gomes starting a little lazily, everyone was firing. Walcott and Richarlison was bright, DCL working hard, Kenny staking a claim and Gueye providing a masterclass in midfield with only Gylfi not getting on the ball enough.

Don't think we watched the same game Bailey, both sides were total shite first half (Gana and to a lesser extent Kenny aside for us), I've seen better football when my lad was at primary school. "Gomes starting a little lazily...."? He was a disaster from the start to when he was hooked for me, Walcott as bad. Sure we were screwed by the schedule we had but that was embarrassing today.

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Don't think we watched the same game Bailey, both sides were total shite first half (Gana and to a lesser extent Kenny aside for us), I've seen better football when my lad was at primary school. "Gomes starting a little lazily...."? He was a disaster from the start to when he was hooked for me, Walcott as bad. Sure we were screwed by the schedule we had but that was embarrassing today.

I agree. I thought both sides had been on the piss with me the night before they were that bad at keeping hold of the ball. Gomes was atrocious. Probably the worst I’ve seen him play for us. Walcott... let’s not even go into his clusterfuck of nothingness. 

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I agree. I thought both sides had been on the piss with me the night before they were that bad at keeping hold of the ball. Gomes was atrocious. Probably the worst I’ve seen him play for us. Walcott... let’s not even go into his clusterfuck of nothingness. 

 With both of you. First half was Fat Sam football.

also Gana actually started the match slowly. It was the last 25 mins of the first half he came alive. Second Half we were still shit, but we tried to carry the ball forward a bit more.. just with no end product.

[seve]

14 hours ago, nogs said:

He is starting every game at a team right on the coat tails of City and Liverpool. What more qualification do you need to be a top 4 player? 

He is only playing when dyer, dembele lamela etc are not fit he is not a regular first team player therefore not a top 4 player.

Tom Davis could go to spurs and do the same job, with good players around him, he takes it off the ch pass to the fb nothing special about him, Erickson is a top 4 mf 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

20 hours ago, Keith B said:

We are what we are: A mid-table side that is about as far away from the Champions League as we are from relegation. This is an opportunity to invest in process, not players. We absolutely shouldn't buy in-their-prime players in January. There are very few of those players that would actually lift Everton into the top six and even fewer that want to play for Everton and fewer still that we can actually afford. The ones that are for sale will demand exorbitant fees. The bottom line is that Everton is not in position to buy in prime players as a way to make it into the top 6. 

We can, however, invest in youth development and youth talent identification. We have very few players that have come from the Academy...off the top of my head DCL, Davies, and Kenny. All three of those are too young to make final judgments on, but they don't look (to me) to be Champions League quality players. Our academy has to improve. Further, club leadership needs to have a pathway/plan for the club. Are you confident that Moshiri/Kenwright  have a vision for how to lift us into the UCL? I sure don't...so far Moshiri's plan has been to buy in-prime players and hope for the best. It is hard to say how much of that is on the previous coaches and directors of football but the owners are the accountable parties for vision and club culture. Maybe Brands and Silva have taken steps in that direction--it is hard for me to tell from where I sit. 

The bottom line is that we are not going to be able to compete with the same strategies as nation state supported clubs and plutocrat owned clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea. But even worse, I'm not sure Everton has a strategy to compete with those teams at all. Not even a bad one. A well run club doesn't buy Cenk Tosuns and Omaur Niasses in January. (And I like both of those players more than most people.) In neither case were we a striker away from the UCL or relegation. 

That's why I think we stick with Silva and Brands. The purchases we made this summer were much more savvy than in previous years. You'd hope though, that those purchases would be a reason why you'd expect to beat Leicester City at home. We didn't do that (and haven't beaten Newcastle and Watford at home either), which is disappointing but it shouldn't lead us to panic and bring in an overpriced and mediocre striker this January. 

 

Shocked by the lack of commentary on Richarlison. He has been largely anonymous for more than a month now. Really worrying that.

Gomes and Walcott were horrendous.

Keane's game-changing mistake offset the other 89 mins of great play. 

Perhaps it's a bit harsh but Pickford should be saving Vardy's shot. 

Kenny's defending was excellent, his attacking was the exact opposite. One of the worst crossers of the ball I can remember.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with Keith. Brilliant post and a terrific assessment of what we need - and more worryingly haven't had for years.  We should strive to emulate Dortmund in every way. They are a transfer market/team building masterclass. It's not impossible, it just requires two incredibly difficult things to find - vision and leadership. In football, one isn'tt good enough. Hopefully Brands is the man to provide both. 

[markjazzbassist]

the winks comments are hilarious, if he was at any other club he wouldn't get a game, he's their tom davies, local boy who gets time due to injuries and lack of squad depth due to lack of transfers.  he's tom carroll, huddlestone, etc mark II.  he'll be sold to west ham or watford and be anonymous.

[Hafnia]

28 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

the winks comments are hilarious, if he was at any other club he wouldn't get a game, he's their tom davies, local boy who gets time due to injuries and lack of squad depth due to lack of transfers.  he's tom carroll, huddlestone, etc mark II.  he'll be sold to west ham or watford and be anonymous.

He won't. He's very good. 

[nogs]

4 hours ago, seve said:

He is only playing when dyer, dembele lamela etc are not fit he is not a regular first team player therefore not a top 4 player.

Tom Davis could go to spurs and do the same job, with good players around him, he takes it off the ch pass to the fb nothing special about him, Erickson is a top 4 mf 

Hmm. Apart from the fact that Lamela doesn't play in the same position and Dembele is about to leave, everything about that post is spot on. 

If only Pochettino read this forum hey, Spurs might have a chance of being involved in the title race. 

[nogs]

54 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

the winks comments are hilarious, if he was at any other club he wouldn't get a game, he's their tom davies, local boy who gets time due to injuries and lack of squad depth due to lack of transfers.  he's tom carroll, huddlestone, etc mark II.  he'll be sold to west ham or watford and be anonymous.

Can name you one club where he'd walk into the first team tomorrow - Everton. 

[markjazzbassist]

16 minutes ago, nogs said:

Can name you one club where he'd walk into the first team tomorrow - Everton. 

he wouldnn't get in ahead of gana (he can't do what he does) or gomes (nowhere near the player he is).  so no he wouldn't walk in here.  west ham, watford, huddersfield, cardiff, etc.  sure.

[nogs]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

he wouldnn't get in ahead of gana (he can't do what he does) or gomes (nowhere near the player he is).  so no he wouldn't walk in here.  west ham, watford, huddersfield, cardiff, etc.  sure.

Yes Mark, of course Mark. We're so good in centre midfield we're a full 21 points behind Spurs - level on points with West Ham and a point behind Watford, by the way. 

Anyway, the point is Spurs have made a player out of Harry Winks, our best youngsters seem to hit a glass ceiling. That to me is one of several reasons why they are CL regulars and title contenders and we are mid-table also rans. 

[markjazzbassist]

We just see it differently nogs.  I see an inability to score goals as our biggest issue, not midfield.  2 mids (Richie siggy) lead our goals, our strikers are woeful.  Start banging em in and we are a completely different side.