Cardiff (Away) Tuesday February 26th

[pete0]

31 minutes ago, Matt said:

Are you fucking kidding me? 

By your definition it would be. 

We handed them 3 opportunities thanks to our cock ups. Just because they didn't score from them doesn't mean we stopped the danger. 

[Sibdane]

Not a pretty win, but it was better than anything under Allardyce, and looking back at his results I don't see where we ever had a GD of at least 3 in a match under him, though I could be wrong.

I didn't think we were too bad in the second half. The first half was a blur.

[Matt]

32 minutes ago, pete0 said:

By your definition it would be. 

We handed them 3 opportunities thanks to our cock ups. Just because they didn't score from them doesn't mean we stopped the danger. 

The definition is based on them having no shots on target. 

What ifs are utterly irrelevant 

[pete0]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

The definition is based on them having no shots on target. 

What ifs are utterly irrelevant 

So in musical chairs when music stops kid A passes the parcel to B who doesn't notice the music has stopped and passes to C. 

Kid A has gifted an opportunity to B. 

B missed the opportunity and gave it away. 

In your definition kid A gets credit for B missing out. 

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So in musical chairs when music stops kid A passes the parcel to B who doesn't notice the music has stopped and passes to C. 

Kid A has gifted an opportunity to B. 

B missed the opportunity and gave it away. 

In your definition kid A gets credit for B missing out. 

Except we’re not talking about a fictional scenario, we’re talking about something that actually happened. 

[pete0]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

Except we’re not talking about a fictional scenario, we’re talking about something that actually happened. 

Keane got turned inside out and they missed from about 10 yards. That actually happened or because they never scored does it magically get erased from reality? 

[Matt]

25 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Keane got turned inside out and they missed from about 10 yards. That actually happened or because they never scored does it magically get erased from reality? 

Are you fucking serious?! 

They didn’t have a shot on target. They were shut out. There is no debating that point. 

Were there mistakes? yes. Could we have done better? Yes. Did Gana get an assist by setting up a counter attack with a nice turn, touch and weighted forward pass? yes. Did we prevent them from having a shot on target, thus shutting them out/stopping them? Do you have a leg to stand on in this debate? No.  Not a single fucking toe. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Maybe if a couple people stopped bashing him at every single opportunity, one of them even going as far as to say he’s the worst player to play for Everton, we'd stop reveling in his constant demonstrations of proof that they’re full of shit.

I think your revelling because you don’t see that very often like I said I thought he played well in phases and probably if I’m honest his best game this year if not this season, let’s hope he carries it through to Sunday and you can all revel at my expense again I don’t have a problem with that as long as the teams winning. 

[Bailey]

17 hours ago, pete0 said:

I wouldn't say we stopped them. They were missing four of their starting eleven and in general completely lacking in any quality. Their whole starting eleven only has 13 goals between them. 

Watford stuffed 5 past Cardiff their last game before playing Liverpool tonight. Seriously it was only Cardiff and we struggled to string a few passes together. Play like that and Liverpool will get into double figures. 

The first part is their problem not ours. You can only stop whats in front of you.

The they played we played is also a pointless argument in football otherwise betting on it would be simple. Cardiff beat Southampton and Bournemouth before us and only lost to Arsenal by a goal. It doesnt make a jot of difference.

I agree about the passing comments though. We were under minimal pressure a lot of the time and half of them couldnt play a good ball into their team mate.

 

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Keane got turned inside out and they missed from about 10 yards. That actually happened or because they never scored does it magically get erased from reality? 

Talking of all their chances, the Jags one was a good chance but it was still a very tight angle and the keeper would be favourite to save it. Zahore had a chance but he should have been given offside and Keane looked to have it covered anyway. The other chance you refer to above (which was shocking defending on 2 occasions from Keane) was even more difficult than the Jags chance and should never be scoring from that angle. The rest of the players had the other options cut out and in fact it was great work from Schneiderlin. Thats it. One offside and two more often that not never going to score.

The funny thing about this thread is that Schneiderlin makes a great pass which sets up the opening goal. Difficult to weight, difficult to get the angle, almost nowhere else to go but backwards and yet all the plaudits are heaped on Gana for passing a basic ball to Bernard, for apparently playing such a good ball to Walcott that I cant even remember the shot and doesnt even make the highlights and then waiting until we are 2 up to beat a man and play a well weighted ball into DCL. Gana even gets a credit for "intercepting" the ball for the 2nd goal when the ball itself was going to no-one and was nipped off Keane's toes and yet Schneiderlin runs back 50-60 yards and makes a potential goal saving interception and nothing. Funny old forum this.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

This is where your bias takes over though Palfy. When you went to the toilet, you missed Gana setting up Walcott for example. 

You also went to make a cuppa when Gana was under severe pressure in midfield, yet managed to turn his player, keep hold of the ball and keep possession for the team. You should stop drinking so much during a match... as the second time you went for a piss, you missed our defence u see pressure and Gana lifting his hand to Keane, letting him know he was taking control of the situation, and striding our with the ball to link up with Gylfi. 

Its these things that you miss that makes fans feel the need to point out when he does something good. 

Humility is a good trait to have my friend. 

I said he played well Shukes in what way am I being bias, I just try to say it as I see it  if I said he played poorly I would be lying and you would be complaining about that, the other comment was tongue in cheek have you had a humour bypass operation or something, if so did you go to the same surgeon as nyblue because he seems very good and it worked really well for him

[MikeO]

47 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The funny thing about this thread is that Schneiderlin makes a great pass which sets up the opening goal. Difficult to weight, difficult to get the angle, almost nowhere else to go but backwards and yet all the plaudits are heaped on Gana for passing a basic ball to Bernard, for apparently playing such a good ball to Walcott that I cant even remember the shot and doesnt even make the highlights

Shot is just short of two minutes into the extended highlights on Everton TV. I think Gana is highlighted because people rate him and have seen good stuff from him all season and the naysayers have denied any sign of it. Schneiderlin has got recognition for the pass but as it's about the only decent thing he's produced in a year or so people are maybe a little sceptical that he's turned a corner, need to see much more from him than one pass.

[Palfy]

18 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Shot is just short of two minutes into the extended highlights on Everton TV. I think Gana is highlighted because people rate him and have seen good stuff from him all season and the naysayers have denied any sign of it. Schneiderlin has got recognition for the pass but as it's about the only decent thing he's produced in a year or so people are maybe a little sceptical that he's turned a corner, need to see much more from him than one pass.

On that note we need to see a lot more from a few of them.

[nyblue23]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

The first part is their problem not ours. You can only stop whats in front of you.

The they played we played is also a pointless argument in football otherwise betting on it would be simple. Cardiff beat Southampton and Bournemouth before us and only lost to Arsenal by a goal. It doesnt make a jot of difference.

I agree about the passing comments though. We were under minimal pressure a lot of the time and half of them couldnt play a good ball into their team mate.

 

Talking of all their chances, the Jags one was a good chance but it was still a very tight angle and the keeper would be favourite to save it. Zahore had a chance but he should have been given offside and Keane looked to have it covered anyway. The other chance you refer to above (which was shocking defending on 2 occasions from Keane) was even more difficult than the Jags chance and should never be scoring from that angle. The rest of the players had the other options cut out and in fact it was great work from Schneiderlin. Thats it. One offside and two more often that not never going to score.

The funny thing about this thread is that Schneiderlin makes a great pass which sets up the opening goal. Difficult to weight, difficult to get the angle, almost nowhere else to go but backwards and yet all the plaudits are heaped on Gana for passing a basic ball to Bernard, for apparently playing such a good ball to Walcott that I cant even remember the shot and doesnt even make the highlights and then waiting until we are 2 up to beat a man and play a well weighted ball into DCL. Gana even gets a credit for "intercepting" the ball for the 2nd goal when the ball itself was going to no-one and was nipped off Keane's toes and yet Schneiderlin runs back 50-60 yards and makes a potential goal saving interception and nothing. Funny old forum this.

Schneiderlin played quietly well beginning with that fantastic pass, which we all gave him credit for, but he was pretty abysmal before the goal, with plenty of comments about ineffectiveness.

Gana, on the other hand, consistently moved the ball forward, unafraid to make runs forward where other players (including him in a lot of other matches) would have just passed backwards, had a few great takeaways, and finished the game with two nutmegs and a perfectly weighted assist for a final goal.

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I think your revelling because you don’t see that very often like I said I thought he played well in phases and probably if I’m honest his best game this year if not this season, let’s hope he carries it through to Sunday and you can all revel at my expense again I don’t have a problem with that as long as the teams winning. 

But we do it after nearly every match, and a good majority of the time you have that same response. At what point are you just happy he’s part of the squad?

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, nyblue23 said:

Schneiderlin played quietly well beginning with that fantastic pass, which we all gave him credit for, but he was pretty abysmal before the goal, with plenty of comments about ineffectiveness.

Gana, on the other hand, consistently moved the ball forward, unafraid to make runs forward where other players (including him in a lot of other matches) would have just passed backwards, had a few great takeaways, and finished the game with two nutmegs and a perfectly weighted assist for a final goal.

But we do it after nearly every match, and a good majority of the time you have that same response. At what point are you just happy he’s part of the squad?

When he plays like he did against Cardiff on a more regular basis I'm being honest in my appraisal of him he hasn't shown enough footballing ability for me, but if he can replicate what he did on Tuesday when in possession of the ball more often I would not have a problem, and let's all be honest he hasn't played like that for a very very long time what he did whilst in possession of the ball for me stood out he showed some vision and creative play which I appreciated I just need to see more of it.

[MikeO]

37 minutes ago, Palfy said:

On that note we need to see a lot more from a few of them.

Can't disagree with that.

[pete0]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Are you fucking serious?! 

They didn’t have a shot on target. They were shut out. There is no debating that point. 

Were there mistakes? yes. Could we have done better? Yes. Did Gana get an assist by setting up a counter attack with a nice turn, touch and weighted forward pass? yes. Did we prevent them from having a shot on target, thus shutting them out/stopping them? Do you have a leg to stand on in this debate? No.  Not a single fucking toe. 

Don't know if you're on a wind up or banged your head. Your definition makes as much sense as a wag going shopping after her fella cheats on her. 

They didn't have a shot on target does not mean we shut them out. They just never took advantage of our piss poor defending. Which isn'tt surprising considering they only had 13 goals between the whole starting eleven! But go on then we were brilliant kept clean sheet and still thrash Liverpool.. Not like the last team that thumped Cardiff didn't then get their bellies tickled by them. 

[Matt]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

Don't know if you're on a wind up or banged your head. Your definition makes as much sense as a wag going shopping after her fella cheats on her. 

They didn't have a shot on target does not mean we shut them out. They just never took advantage of our piss poor defending. Which isn'ttt surprising considering they only had 13 goals between the whole starting eleven! But go on then we were brilliant kept clean sheet and still thrash Liverpool.. Not like the last team that thumped Cardiff didn't then get their bellies tickled by them. 

Yes it does. Don’t know if you’re on the windup or just dim. I don’t believe the latter is true but you’re making it hard. 

[Shukes]

12 hours ago, Palfy said:

I said he played well Shukes in what way am I being bias, I just try to say it as I see it  if I said he played poorly I would be lying and you would be complaining about that, the other comment was tongue in cheek have you had a humour bypass operation or something, if so did you go to the same surgeon as nyblue because he seems very good and it worked really well for him

So where people have praised Bernard for the one chance he set up. Why haven’t you commented on people creaming about him? 

And no I still get the humour and enjoy it mate. It’s just funny that after someone else commented that a few of you were silent due to a Gana having a good game.... your next message was hitting out at the ones who did praise him.... humorous maybe, but with a hint of venom in

Well it stung me! I’m hurt.

[Shukes]

12 hours ago, MikeO said:

Shot is just short of two minutes into the extended highlights on Everton TV. I think Gana is highlighted because people rate him and have seen good stuff from him all season and the naysayers have denied any sign of it. Schneiderlin has got recognition for the pass but as it's about the only decent thing he's produced in a year or so people are maybe a little sceptical that he's turned a corner, need to see much more from him than one pass.

Was just about to comment the same thing.

Morgan did get recognition for his performance from many. I think Matt has even suggested in the shite thread, that he retains his place due to his performance. 

I get the highlight thing though. Only certain people can see it on the highlights, the ones who allow themselves to.

Interestingly through, I have just watched through the highlights again and haven’t come across the part where Gana gifts them a chance. Anyone know what minute it’s in?

[Shukes]

29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Yes it does. Don’t know if you’re on the windup or just dim. I don’t believe the latter is true but you’re making it hard. 

He’s right Matt.

If we don’t have an shot on target against the meanest defence in the world, it’s not because they are any good, it’s because we didn’t take advantage of the chances they handed us in a plate. 

Joking aside, I do agree with PeteO about the Jags chance. Firing a ball across the box is a chance of a goal. Luckily, or by design, Digne gets in front and clears the danger. But that was a chance of them. It wasn’t an effort on goal, but it was a chance. That passage of player from the resulting corner also gave them a shot at goal. Off target though. But that’s about it wasn’t it?

No matter how bad they are, they created chances again City, Liverpool and Spurs. Does that make those teams useless as wel?

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

Was just about to comment the same thing.

Morgan did get recognition for his performance from many. I think Matt has even suggested in the shite thread, that he retains his place due to his performance. 

I get the highlight thing though. Only certain people can see it on the highlights, the ones who allow themselves to.

Interestingly through, I have just watched through the highlights again and haven’t come across the part where Gana gifts them a chance. Anyone know what minute it’s in? 

[pete0]

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

Was just about to comment the same thing.

Morgan did get recognition for his performance from many. I think Matt has even suggested in the shite thread, that he retains his place due to his performance. 

I get the highlight thing though. Only certain people can see it on the highlights, the ones who allow themselves to.

Interestingly through, I have just watched through the highlights again and haven’t come across the part where Gana gifts them a chance. Anyone know what minute it’s in?

It was not long after Richarlison done similar. 10 minutes into the second half maybe, think it was still 1 nil at the time. 

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

It was not long after Richarlison done similar. 10 minutes into the second half maybe, think it was still 1 nil at the time. 

 

Then it’s only right after I comment that I go look.

[MikeO]

2 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Then it’s only right after I comment that I go look.

Can't have been much of a chance, if it'd been a serious one it'd have been on MOTD and it wasn't.

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

It was not long after Richarlison done similar. 10 minutes into the second half maybe, think it was still 1 nil at the time. 

Watched the 8 min highlights and it’s not in there at all. Not saying it didnt happen, just commenting on the highlights that’s all. 

My point was that Gana setting up Walcott, which is 100% on there, was missed. But the Gana giving them a chance, which was commented on wasn’t? I also noticed they had a chance on 55 minutes, but that was Keane getting beaten not Gana. The ball was played over Ganas head on from the edge of their penalty area. 

[Bailey]

On 28/02/2019 at 19:17, MikeO said:

Shot is just short of two minutes into the extended highlights on Everton TV. I think Gana is highlighted because people rate him and have seen good stuff from him all season and the naysayers have denied any sign of it. Schneiderlin has got recognition for the pass but as it's about the only decent thing he's produced in a year or so people are maybe a little sceptical that he's turned a corner, need to see much more from him than one pass.

Found it! In fairness that wasnt on the extended highlights package I saw. It was a decent pass but its a speculative shot rather than a bloody chance! Even when I was watching those highlights back I didnt notice it. Was expecting a lot more. I dont deny that is why Gana gets an extra bump on these threads, it used to be the same in the Lukaku thread but Schneiderlin gets more stick than anyone else. People were on at him from the start of this game and he was actually playing well and Matt wa the only one who mentioned the pass for the goal. A far better pass and more important pass than anything Gana did all game and yet he set up Bernard for the assist and he played Walcott in for a chance on the edge of the fucking D! There are more posts about Gana's involvement in the 2nd goal than Schneiderlin's in the 1st. Bear in mind he contributed as about the same amount of quality as a Sunday League player could have for that 2nd goal.

I get that people will be sceptical about Schneiderlin, I am in exactly the same boat and I wouldnt exactly back him to do it again, but this is a match day thread about the match itself. If this was this was the general Schneiderlin thread I would completely agree with your point.

On 28/02/2019 at 19:41, nyblue23 said:

Schneiderlin played quietly well beginning with that fantastic pass, which we all gave him credit for, but he was pretty abysmal before the goal, with plenty of comments about ineffectiveness.

Gana, on the other hand, consistently moved the ball forward, unafraid to make runs forward where other players (including him in a lot of other matches) would have just passed backwards, had a few great takeaways, and finished the game with two nutmegs and a perfectly weighted assist for a final goal.

But we do it after nearly every match, and a good majority of the time you have that same response. At what point are you just happy he’s part of the squad?

You see Gana "consistently" moving the ball around but what I saw was Gana standing still while Schneiderlin was constantly moving into spaces to pick the ball off the CBs, playing it first time into the feet of another player. Gana was playing the ball much slower, his passing was putting team mates into trouble much more regularly, either poor balls to players under pressure or not rolling into feet when they should be. He was consistently making decisions that assisted the general averageness of that first half, whereas Schneiderlin was doing all the things to try and do the opposite.

Schneiderlin had more interceptions and recoveries, he gave the ball away less too. They made almost identical numbers of passes. Gana also only had two dribbles. The last goal was great but when your looking at what you want to take away from this game it wont be one of them because it was like the pretty decoration on the outside of the cake which means nothing unless the cake itself tastes good. If we want to improve, we need to improve upon what was happening in the first 60 ish minutes. That means several players doing the basics a lot better. If that ends up being Gana megging player and being more of a number 10 then great, but I don't think it will somehow!

What same response? I gave him Motm after the last match, I said he was great in the last 10-15 minutes of this match. I have also said he should be starting in midfield.  I have barely commented on Gana until other people have tried to put him on a pedestal . I haven't said he was crap, I just think Schneiderlin was the one doing adding quality to the midfield, which is unlike him, and everyone is glossing over it and is ready to put the knife in because of his past performances.

[Shukes]

Just getting ridiculous now. We win 3-0 and Gana plays well.... and fans seem to be arguing about it. 

Mid we brought any player back from loan and they scored, or played wel, I would be over the moon. I wouldn’t try to play down anything our team did.

Thread has turned poison, it just doesn’t even make sense anymore haha.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Just getting ridiculous now. We win 3-0 and Gana plays well.... and fans seem to be arguing about it. 

Mid we brought any player back from loan and they scored, or played wel, I would be over the moon. I wouldn’t try to play down anything our team did.

Thread has turned poison, it just doesn’t even make sense anymore haha.

What bit are they arguing about that has upset you so much?

[pete0]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

You see Gana "consistently" moving the ball around but what I saw was Gana standing still while Schneiderlin was constantly moving into spaces to pick the ball off the CBs, playing it first time into the feet of another player. Gana was playing the ball much slower, his passing was putting team mates into trouble much more regularly, either poor balls to players under pressure or not rolling into feet when they should be. He was consistently making decisions that assisted the general averageness of that first half, whereas Schneiderlin was doing all the things to try and do the opposite.

Schneiderlin had more interceptions and recoveries, he gave the ball away less too. They made almost identical numbers of passes. Gana also only had two dribbles. The last goal was great but when your looking at what you want to take away from this game it wont be one of them because it was like the pretty decoration on the outside of the cake which means nothing unless the cake itself tastes good. If we want to improve, we need to improve upon what was happening in the first 60 ish minutes. That means several players doing the basics a lot better. If that ends up being Gana megging player and being more of a number 10 then great, but I don't think it will somehow!

 

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

Just getting ridiculous now. We win 3-0 and Gana plays well.... and fans seem to be arguing about it. 

Mid we brought any player back from loan and they scored, or played wel, I would be over the moon. I wouldn’t try to play down anything our team did.

Thread has turned poison, it just doesn’t even make sense anymore haha.

See Bailey's post above. Gana didn't play well and was a factor in the side being shite for the first hour which people seem to be ignoring because he got a meaningless assist in the 93rd minute with the match already won. His only assist so far this season. 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

What bit are they arguing about that has upset you so much?

None.