markjazzbassist Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Nothing like us playing shit and getting beat regularly to bring drama to a frustrated board Very True Paddock. My question with everyone bashing the RM philosophy of no Plan B and just Tiki Taka pass it around, how has Arsenal gotten 11 straight CL qualifications playing the exact same system? They pass around all day with huge possession stats, don't ever switch to hoof ball, and frequently pass sideways and backwards. Goes to show it's not the philosophy or that it's been "found out", just that we need better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 how has Arsenal gotten 11 straight CL qualifications playing the exact same system? Because they are a better and more lucrative side which dwarfs us in every department financially and commercially which obviously brings in a much higher standard of player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Very True Paddock. My question with everyone bashing the RM philosophy of no Plan B and just Tiki Taka pass it around, how has Arsenal gotten 11 straight CL qualifications playing the exact same system? They pass around all day with huge possession stats, don't ever switch to hoof ball, and frequently pass sideways and backwards. Goes to show it's not the philosophy or that it's been "found out", just that we need better players. Easy they have better players, more money (to buy even more better players) a better manager, a better board a better stadium a better business plan better everything really but most importantly a much better squad of players who are suited to that style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Because they are a better and more lucrative side which dwarfs us in every department financially and commercially which obviously brings in a much higher standard of player Beat me to it :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Nothing like us playing shit and getting beat regularly to bring drama to a frustrated board Damn right! Bunch of cowboys, the lot of 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 The Arsenal thing...its only been the last couple of seasons that Arsenal have really splashed the cash. Before that, they had one of the lowest net spends in the league. I know we can argue about the stadium, finances etc but Arsenes way has also been to buy relatively cheap. The key is that through fierce criticism, Arsene has stuck to his principles of play and development. Roberto will sort it out. We just seem a bit lost at the moment with a fair bit of players moving around up top etc. I'm pretty sure that even Sir Alex Ferguson had critics throughout his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Been on a driver improvement course today and had too much coffee. To be honest best £75 fine I've spent. Quite humbling experience really. You spend so many years convincing yourself that the wrong things you do are right. Back to Davie moyes....... We could have saved you £75....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I think when Stones is fit and with a few more games under his belt he will be able to play 'the Martinez' way, likewise McCarthy, Naismith also looks capable.Besic looks to have a great future, but he needs a bit more time. Lukaku's looking sound with his injury behind him.I think Ross is one of the players Martinez needs to work with, he seems to recieve the ball and just about fucking explodes with intent.....get that energy harnessed, work on his head as well as his feet and we could just start seeing the best young talent in England. So prem forms looking a bit dodgy, but I think he's working on the bigger picture......just need a bit more luck and a couple of wins. Tippy Tappy footballs great when you win.........and shite when you lose, for me the jurys out, but he didn't come here for the short term, so I guess we just hold on tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ian-doyle-everton-fc-must-8242616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 http://www.footballfancast.com/premier-league/everton/five-reasons-its-all-gone-wrong-for-everton-this-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 http://www.footballfancast.com/premier-league/everton/five-reasons-its-all-gone-wrong-for-everton-this-season I think that's a fair write up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 He sent the players out 5 mins before the 2nd half kick off and didn't make a sub. 2 things he hasn't done before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 i think he needs to go back and look and see what was successful last season. last season was a combo of moyes and martinez tactics, sometimes we went direct, sometimes we played out the back, it wasn't cut and dry always play out the back. in addition he changed our formation up, we did 433 sometimes (arsenal) and it really did well. we even played 3 at the back. youngsters were given a chance, everyone was loaned out. subs made a difference and weren't always conventional. injuries were standard level. this season its' 4231, best players play no matter what position, no youngsters get a chance and aren't even loaned (except kennedy and pennington). always pass from the back. their whole side could be in our third and romelu could be wide open but pass out the back. subs are far and few between, most games we don't even use all 3 (even though we have the deepest squad ever) and are ill timed. injuries have become an epidemic. its as if there is sometime wrong with the training regimen. i hope he goes back to last seasons tapes and corrects these issues. i've always backed roberto and still will, i think he's a great manager, but sometimes wrong and he's not changing it and i'm getting worried. he wasn't like this last year. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 i think he needs to go back and look and see what was successful last season. last season was a combo of moyes and martinez tactics, sometimes we went direct, sometimes we played out the back, it wasn't cut and dry always play out the back. in addition he changed our formation up, we did 433 sometimes (arsenal) and it really did well. we even played 3 at the back. youngsters were given a chance, everyone was loaned out. subs made a difference and weren't always conventional. injuries were standard level. this season its' 4231, best players play no matter what position, no youngsters get a chance and aren't even loaned (except kennedy and pennington). always pass from the back. their whole side could be in our third and romelu could be wide open but pass out the back. subs are far and few between, most games we don't even use all 3 (even though we have the deepest squad ever) and are ill timed. injuries have become an epidemic. its as if there is sometime wrong with the training regimen. i hope he goes back to last seasons tapes and corrects these issues. i've always backed roberto and still will, i think he's a great manager, but sometimes wrong and he's not changing it and i'm getting worried. he wasn't like this last year. Agree with all of this. I've kept quiet on this until now, but today was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 i think he needs to go back and look and see what was successful last season. last season was a combo of moyes and martinez tactics, sometimes we went direct, sometimes we played out the back, it wasn't cut and dry always play out the back. in addition he changed our formation up, we did 433 sometimes (arsenal) and it really did well. we even played 3 at the back. youngsters were given a chance, everyone was loaned out. subs made a difference and weren't always conventional. injuries were standard level. this season its' 4231, best players play no matter what position, no youngsters get a chance and aren't even loaned (except kennedy and pennington). always pass from the back. their whole side could be in our third and romelu could be wide open but pass out the back. subs are far and few between, most games we don't even use all 3 (even though we have the deepest squad ever) and are ill timed. injuries have become an epidemic. its as if there is sometime wrong with the training regimen. i hope he goes back to last seasons tapes and corrects these issues. i've always backed roberto and still will, i think he's a great manager, but sometimes wrong and he's not changing it and i'm getting worried. he wasn't like this last year. It's exactly the same formula as last season Mark. Nothing different whatsoever except maybe the Moyes mentality and defensive mindedness of the back four is gone. We're predictable mate we play the same way every game wxcept a slight variation. We are playing 3 number 10s snd mixing them round in a forward 3 and it doesn't work. It's like watching the fucking chuckle brothers.. To me.. To you (google it) we have no width, no penetration and no idea. We're so narrow it's blindingly obvious. Any manager with half a clue will tell his team to press our back four high, harrassthem when they have the ball , snuff our full back out by the left and right mids dropping deep to double up on them and squeeze our front 3 in tight in the final third. Finally sit back and let them have it. Job done. There's no variation in tactics it's just a mixture of players playing the same way. We're asking numerous players to play in a system or style they're not accustomed to and opposition managers see this and exploit it. What planet is he on expecting Jagielka and Distin to spray balls across the back and stroll forward with it like they're Bobby Moore and Sergio Ramos? It's fucking ridiculous they can't do it yet they're instructid to play this way and they're terrified when they have the ball like rabbits in a head light. It's fucking cannon fodder to a decent front two and that's why two solid centre halves are all of a sudden looking like Sunday league players. I can't fathom for the life of me whypeople can't and haven't seen this happening. I've been whining and whining about it and probably doing everyones heads in but it's really happening right in front of every fuckers eyes and everyone keeps expecting a false dawn every game and us to click and go on this unbeaten run.... Well I'm telling you now it's not going to come , Martinez will drag us down into a mid to bottom table team in 3 years flat. What will come next is we'll lose Mirallas, the league money will drop and Barkley will be sold (not a bad thing in my eyes but thats for another thread) then Stones, McCarthy and so on and he'll replace them with shite. He'll fuck this club over until we're ruined mark my words. Everyone will jump all over me for saying this but whatever, lets see in 2 years time and the sad thing is I'll take no pleasure out of being right it'll be to the detrement of us all but too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Phil Neville on MOTD, that little shit won't fail to try a point scoring exercise to get digs in. BTW paddock, Barkley was the only man in that side today bar besic, had the courage to try and run the ball and do stuff. I really don't see where you are coming from with him. Do you need proving right? His ability for his age as a centre midfielder is way and above anything else you would have seen in this league since fabregas emerging. On a day where lukaku completely shit out of an aerial challenge in the box to score an own goal, you mention Barkley. Imagine if it was Barkley who had that performance today.... Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I seen the shit talk over a year ago! We just aren't a good side atm. So mis jointed and this brand of possession based football is boring to watch and also pretty fruitless. I'm worried about the players we have, especially out wide. Pienaar is pretty much finished.... He's always been a big player for us. McGeady just isn't good enough and that's pretty much all we've got out wide. Martinez is then filling these gaps playing Barkley out wide and now Naismith. The back four is also a major worry. Coleman looks lost a shadow of his former self. Baines seems to be anonymous these days - certainly not the player he was. Jagielka and Distin look awful. I'm struggling to work out if the players are now on a downward spiral or it's down to the manager. It's possibly a mix of the two. However he doesn't seem to be changing anything. Barry has to be dropped. He's been absolutely shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I seen the shit talk over a year ago! We just aren't a good side atm. So mis jointed and this brand of possession based football is boring to watch and also pretty fruitless. I'm worried about the players we have, especially out wide. Pienaar is pretty much finished.... He's always been a big player for us. McGeady just isn't good enough and that's pretty much all we've got out wide. Martinez is then filling these gaps playing Barkley out wide and now Naismith. The back four is also a major worry. Coleman looks lost a shadow of his former self. Baines seems to be anonymous these days - certainly not the player he was. Jagielka and Distin look awful. I'm struggling to work out if the players are now on a downward spiral or it's down to the manager. It's possibly a mix of the two. However he doesn't seem to be changing anything. Barry has to be dropped. He's been absolutely shite. Of course you seen this over a year ago. I'm pretty certain you never got excited about finishing top 4 and then I'm the summer you didn't dream of big things with the £28m capture of lukaku. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Of course you seen this over a year ago. I'm pretty certain you never got excited about finishing top 4 and then I'm the summer you didn't dream of big things with the £28m capture of lukaku. I was the first one to say on here Martinez talks shit & I can't listen to him over a year ago. Which a lot of people didn't like on here. Now there's loads of people on to him. I was excited about this season. I thought we'd kick on. But we have been nothing short of dire. The usually solid back four is a shambles after 1 year in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I was the first one to say on here Martinez talks shit & I can't listen to him over a year ago. Which a lot of people didn't like on here. Now there's loads of people on to him. I was excited about this season. I thought we'd kick on. But we have been nothing short of dire. The usually solid back four is a shambles after 1 year in charge. I will agree, at times of 7/10 onwards then positivity is great. When it's 4/10 they need bollocking. I actually think Martinez went ape shit on them today and refused to bail them out. There we go, Phil nev said Everton are a winable game for palace.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 He's not lying atm tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 He will rip into us. Guaranteed. Hate him. Benteke looked quality today in fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I still believe in Martinez. He hasn't come out and spouted a load of over the top positives. He's been honest. But he does need to decide who he wants to play as a starting 11. And in what position. It feels like he is tinkering a bit too much. However, some of this is forced...injuries, extra fixtures etc. I think he is as frustrated as us at the moment. Has he got it wrong? Well the table doesn't lie. Neither do our performances. But I won't write the season off yet...not when I know we are capable of more than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I honestly think he's just got too big for his boots. Same as Rodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I honestly think he's just got too big for his boots. Same as Rodgers. Do you really? I'm not sure about that one. Rodgers has much less excuse, the amount of money he's been allowed to spend. The number of players he has brought in. Martinez isn't even midway through his 2nd season. I'll reserve full judgement for a little longer. But he needs to get these players going pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I honestly think he's just got too big for his boots. Same as Rodgers. Scared by the increased expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think there is a bit of a case of “second season syndrome“, teams have wised up on closing us down quickly. This is compounded by the lack of width we have. When we dont play with 2 wingers are full backs have nobody to play off or a fast oulet to get the ball forward quickly. Everyone drifts inside and attacks stall. Mirallas and Oviedo being injured and Pienaar being injured and not up to the form of old as well as Mcgeady taking longer to settle, and Atsu not up to scratch means we just havent had the width. We desperatly need to sign a couple ofwingers in Jan and hope they can link up with Baines and Coleman quickly. I also think Jags came back shell shocked from the world cup which affected the whole team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2209194/martinez-deserves-blame-for-wretched-everton? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2209194/martinez-deserves-blame-for-wretched-everton?That is ABSOLUTELY spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted December 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Well these stats are a little scary... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5X71rFCMAAJjYg.jpg ...in other words. Too much fucking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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