Newty82 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Agree with the 10 games shout. However, if we're still tangled up at the bottom with 10 games to go, surely it's time to get rid of a manager who's already suffered relegation just over 18 months ago. That's a different conversation all together. And the same people will have opposite thoughts on it!!! Ooooooh....I can't resist....Ok. For me, no. The only reason I'd want a change, the very only reason, would be if we were in the bottom 3 and looking knee deep in shit. And that's simply because I think financially, relegation would be disastrous. I wouldn't sack any other time. IF we stay down there until the last ball has been kicked this season and then at the half way point next season we are in the same position, then yes, he would have to go. Because then he would have shown no learning curve or adaptability etc. At the moment, he is a young manager learning his trade at a new level. How often has an Everton Manager successfully juggled Europe and the league in the Premiership era? But that's not my 'for' argument. The fact he is only 41, still learning, has a sound footballing philosophy and seems to have a vision for the future is my 'for' argument. But we'll see...17 games to go. 51 points up for grabs. And the Europa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Howard Kendall managed The League, The Cup Winners Cup and an FA Cup Final in the same season. The league was over 42 games and he had a smaller squad. . That's a different conversation all together. And the same people will have opposite thoughts on it!!! Ooooooh....I can't resist....Ok. For me, no. The only reason I'd want a change, the very only reason, would be if we were in the bottom 3 and looking knee deep in shit. And that's simply because I think financially, relegation would be disastrous. I wouldn't sack any other time. IF we stay down there until the last ball has been kicked this season and then at the half way point next season we are in the same position, then yes, he would have to go. Because then he would have shown no learning curve or adaptability etc. At the moment, he is a young manager learning his trade at a new level. How often has an Everton Manager successfully juggled Europe and the league in the Premiership era? But that's not my 'for' argument. The fact he is only 41, still learning, has a sound footballing philosophy and seems to have a vision for the future is my 'for' argument. But we'll see...17 games to go. 51 points up for grabs. And the Europa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Howard Kendall managed The League, The Cup Winners Cup and an FA Cup Final in the same season. The league was over 42 games and he had a smaller squad. . As I said, 'Premiership Era'...as in, not the era when we were tipped to go on and dominate Europe with one of our best ever teams. If it wasn't for that 5 year ban of course...the last 25-30 years may have been a totally different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Agree with the 10 games shout. However, if we're still tangled up at the bottom with 10 games to go, surely it's time to get rid of a manager who's already suffered relegation just over 18 months ago. Very simplistic stat wouldn't you say - especially when 12 months after that he took Everton to their highest Premier League points finish and knocked on the door of Champions league... having won the FA Cup with Wigan. Wigan are a lower level championship funded side at best, fior a while Whelan tried to throw money at it and thats why you get Jewell and Bruce clouding the perception of the job Martinez did. Martinez reduced Wigans expediture by 25% - in Everton terms that is like getting rid of Jagielka, Baines, Mirallas, Lukaku and McCarthy and having kids come through... and then expecting to maintain the same finishes give or take a couple of places. Taking Wigan down and calling someone a poor manager is not too dismilar for criticising someone for not being able to swin with a ruck sack full of bricks on their back. Howard Kendall managed The League, The Cup Winners Cup and an FA Cup Final in the same season. The league was over 42 games and he had a smaller squad. . Howard Kendall was one game away from the sack in Jan 1984 just under 2 years after he took over the club. Ironically 31 years ago this Sunday we were 18th just above drop zone - he was moments away from getting the sack after trailing 1-0 to Oxford, Heath equalised and we went on and improved - pretty much the same players went on to win the league, fa cup, ECWC. Pretty apt I think. Chach and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 For me, honestly, it becomes a relegation battle if we are still only 3 points clear with 10 or less games to go. I know that I usually pay more attention to it from game 30. Talk of a relegation battle have been going on for at least 5 or 6 games. Which is ridiculous. I know the season so far has been shite, but I always said we'll come strong the 2nd half of the season. That's my true belief. On that one, we have to wait and see. I know about the stats, and they are quite daunting and startling actually. The biggest one we talk about is goals conceded. 34 now. But let's not forget that 10 of those were in the first 3 games, those games I think, set us up for the season so far. Unfortunately. I'm not sticking my head in the sand. And thinking of it in any other way also won't make it go away, would it?! Look, we see things differently. Your naturally very pessimistic. I'm not. I find your approach a tad frustrating, you no doubt find mine bemusing, frustrating etc. Different people and all that. And that's ok. Ha ha one minute Im a happy clapper the next Im naturally very pessimistic! Oh well I suppose if you have supported Everton for as long as I have they will do that to you I would agree that its too early to start panicking just yet but to dismiss relegation out of hand as you appear to be doing is slightly bemusing. The performances in the last 3 games have provided a bit of light at the end of the tunnel and I really do hope this means we have turned the corner but there is going to have to be a drastic improvement in every department if we are to keep out of the relegation scrap. There always seems to be a team that gets sucked into it and at the moment we are perilously close to becoming that team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Ha ha one minute Im a happy clapper the next Im naturally very pessimistic! Oh well I suppose if you have supported Everton for as long as I have they will do that to you I would agree that its too early to start panicking just yet but to dismiss relegation out of hand as you appear to be doing is slightly bemusing. The performances in the last 3 games have provided a bit of light at the end of the tunnel and I really do hope this means we have turned the corner but there is going to have to be a drastic improvement in every department if we are to keep out of the relegation scrap. There always seems to be a team that gets sucked into it and at the moment we are perilously close to becoming that team Ha! You know, I was thinking after I write that before that you've probably been an Evertonian for a long time so may have some battle scars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Return to some of that shocking football we've played this season and lose at home to WBA.......then we'll see who's happy clapping. Return to some of the exciting football from last season and beat WBA 3-0 ......and we'll be looking at things through totaly different eyes. That's how crazy this game is. Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 It feels horrible looking at the Premiership fixtures this morning and needing the bottom 3 to all lose and Man Utd and the Shite to win, lol definitely feels like were in a relegation scrap at the moment! Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 It feels horrible looking at the Premiership fixtures this morning and needing the bottom 3 to all lose and Man Utd and the Shite to win, lol definitely feels like were in a relegation scrap at the moment! Doesn't it just, and as I said in a different thread, a win moves us nowhere, we're marooned where we are at present. We can't move up with awin but we can drop down with a defeat. Very real situation. Elston Gunnn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 As per my post in the Martinez thread. McCarthy needs to get back. Quite simply we miss his energy and ability to turn the ball over. The goals conceded isn't too much different and that is probably skewed by the 6 conceded against Chelsea but they are what they are. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 As per my post in the Martinez thread. McCarthy needs to get back. Quite simply we miss his energy and ability to turn the ball over. The goals conceded isn't too much different and that is probably skewed by the 6 conceded against Chelsea but they are what they are. I agree that we stand a better chance of getting out of this mess with him than without him but I think the key to us turning our season around is keeping Kevin Mirallas fit and firing on all cylinders. He is our only creative player at the moment Romey 1878 and MC11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) As things stand, we are now 14th as Burnley are beating Palace and Villa are drawing with Liverpool. If ever we needed two wins on the bounce it is right now. Edited January 17, 2015 by rusty747 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 As things stand, we are now 14th as Burnley are beating Palace and Villa are drawing with Liverpool. If ever we needed two wins on the bounce it is right now. The scores are going quite well at the moment, ideally could do with Spurs getting another but otherwise its a good day at the office as it stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Genuine question for those who see us in a relegation battle... At what point, in your mind, would you say we are no longer in a relegation battle? Is it by position? Or by amount of points away from the bottom 3? What's your parameter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Palace now winning. Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Spurs beating Sunderland now though, which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Genuine question for those who see us in a relegation battle... At what point, in your mind, would you say we are no longer in a relegation battle? Is it by position? Or by amount of points away from the bottom 3? What's your parameter? I don't think we're there yet (though we're plainly not far off it) but, as I've said before; in seasons past when our first aim was always survival I was "happy" when we had more points than games played, and worried when we didn't. So if we'd played twenty-five and got twenty-seven points I'd think "It's OK, we can now afford to lose the next two." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Bastard. Chelsea have beat Swansea 5-0...that means we are a further 3 points off the top. Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I like your style Newty! Palace are now on a roll so realistically from our next few games I. Expect/hope WBA Win Palace Draw Liverpool Draw Chelsea Lose Leicester Win Arsenal Lose That would leave us played 27, points 30 which is not great but should be enough to keep us out of the relegation scrap. But we simply must beat WBA and Leicester, and hopefully Palace. It could all go horribly wrong of course and if WBA get a point and we then getbeat at a resurgent Palace then we would be well and truly in the mire. So, next two games are imho the most important of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Genuine question for those who see us in a relegation battle... At what point, in your mind, would you say we are no longer in a relegation battle? Is it by position? Or by amount of points away from the bottom 3? What's your parameter? Would you say Nurnley were in a regation battle? Because if they had won today they would have gone above us. Whats to say we wont be as bad this half of the season as we were last? Not possible? Course it's not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm looking up not down. The teams below won't get a lot more points. For me the results were awful for us today. Teams above moved further away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Genuine question for those who see us in a relegation battle... At what point, in your mind, would you say we are no longer in a relegation battle? Is it by position? Or by amount of points away from the bottom 3? What's your parameter? For this season I would say when we are mathematically safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm looking up not down. The teams below won't get a lot more points. For me the results were awful for us today. Teams above moved further away. We are not going to qualify for Europe so it doesn't really matter, safety is the most important thing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Would you say Nurnley were in a regation battle? Because if they had won today they would have gone above us. Whats to say we wont be as bad this half of the season as we were last? Not possible? Course it's not ? Was that supposed to answer my genuine question?! 'Nurnley' (ha...Fat fingered git!!!)...I've said previously I don't really look at it that deeply until around game 30. Same for top 6, top 4 and the title. Too much can change, so to me it's pointless. Obviously, at the start of the season I guess who will struggle at the bottom and who will be at the top come the END of the season. The only thing I'll concede is that top 4 has gone but not top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 If we had a solid last third we could get top seven. Have to be positive and look up not down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 For this season I would say when we are mathematically safe Ai. Fair do. Although that makes a lot of teams involved in a relegation scrap. If we are down there, 3 or even only 6 points clear at around game 30...then I will definitely start looking more closely and paying attention to who might climb above us etc. I mean, that stuff is going on today and we ain't even kicked a ball!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 If we had a solid last third we could get top seven. Have to be positive and look up not down. I think we are in the wrong thread Shukes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Tell you what, that Bournemouth look tasty under Eddie Howe. Should get promoted to the Premiership this season.Glad we won't have to play them next season!!! (How do you insert that strawberry throwing, ducking smiley?!!!) Edited January 17, 2015 by MikeO Done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Tell you what, that Bournemouth look tasty under Eddie Howe. Should get promoted to the Premiership this season. Glad we won't have to play them next season!!! (How do you insert that strawberry throwing, ducking smiley?!!!) I always thought of it as a tomato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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