RuffRob

basically saying Forest breach was bigger than ours, but both are significant. This judgement says it's not sure why Everton have 6 points, so they have assumed our total deduction must be becasue we tried to mislead.  

An interesting Extract of interest to us.

"If the context was such and/or the quantum at the lower end of a significant breach, then the starting point might slide down the scale in terms of points and conversely, absent any contextual justification and/or with a higher quantum within the significant breach band, the starting point should slide upwards in terms of points. The Commission notes with Everton, there were a couple of factors that moved it up the scale to a starting point of six points - the size of the breach itself and what was initially termed as “misleading” the Premier League, but on appeal shown to be “incorrect” information being provided to the Premier League. 14.15 In the case at hand, the Commission considered whether there were any additional factors that should be taken into account - the “unique” position and/or the reasons for the excess. The conclusion was that these did not (nor were they mitigating factors, see above) and the only factor driving Forest up the scale will be the size of the breach. It was bigger than Everton’s, but both were in the “significant” breach band. However, there was no additional consideration around incorrect information being provided to the Premier League, as Everton had. The Commission does not know how the three extra points were arrived at by the Appeal Board for Everton, but some part of those three points must relate to the provision of incorrect information. Forest’s breach (not its losses, the Commission is concerned with the breach of the PSR Threshold) was larger than Everton’s and as a result, that alone slides it up the scale by three further points to a starting point of six points"

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Didnt the PL tell us 6 points minimum for any PSR breach as a starting point?

I think they pretty much said that a points deduction is an appropriate punishment for a breach- and that 6 points was appropriate for our breach - but doing think it crystal clear  that 6 points was a absolute minimum, becasue it sounded like you could claw points back for good things an offending club did. Maybe they did get 6, but reduce for 4 becasue they did have the intent to sell a player (it was just a few months late to maximise his sale value). 

It will all be very interesting to read.  

No offficial announcment on Forest's 4 points, so another leak if indeed true.

It will be interesting to read the details that are written on this case once they are posted.

Given we are in a bit of a flux with regards to ownership, I would be surprised if any such deal has been agreed. Especially if the is no FFP issues to address before the turn of the financial year in June. 

He seems to gets reasonable amount in the Championship - we got Championship level money for him. Good luck to the lad. 

30 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Apparently 777 have no exclusivity anymore. 

yeah, that's what I am lead to believe as well. I would guess any sort of 'exclusivity' for want of a better word (or maybe 'prefered buyer' might be more appropriate now), is most likely due to the money we are now borrowing through 777.  all most likely based on Moshiri now get as much money back as possible and in the quickest possible time.

with no game for us this weekend, Luton vs Forest and Burnley vs Bradford are the games that will have the biggest bearing on our league position. 

Not sure who I'll be routing for, as don't want really want to seen any of them pick up any points.

draws would probably suit us best.

23 minutes ago, Formby said:

Daft??? Sounds very normal to me! I was doing a little jig at the end, fist pumping the wall, then screaming GET IN like it was 1999 1995.

Phew, glad its wasn't just me, I was being to feel a right c*nt for enjoying seeing Bournmouth comeback last night and take all the points.  

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I've got premier league relegation odds by oddschecker as one of my bookmarks Rob..... been in my safari browser for 3 years now.  I also have become an expert on the importance of relegation threatened sides injured players too. 
 

I found myself hoping Barkley was gonna be out for 5/6 weeks when he hit the deck tonight. Not very nice is it.   
 

yeah I have become an expert in looking at 3rd parties to give me comfort that we won't go down.  

my frustration is we have a fanbase who really could not see all this coming... go back on the board thread and Kenwright was supposed to be the man who showed moshiri the way.

Grant Ingles had a solid C.V apparently to some and DBB proved her worth by climbing up the ladder.... yeah we got best in class there didn't we? Didn't capitalise the stadium loans and got hammered points for it. 

I said a long time ago that our club was in the pits when the agms were cancelled after previous ones seeing valid questions refused. Let's clap a blokes face on the screen in the stadium though.... let's pretend he never took a penny out the club. 
 

we are now left with a broken club which is being circled by vultures. We are reliant on one of the cheapest squads in premier league history in Luton to hopefully dismantle and take the 3rd relegation spot. 
 

 

We all know what a shit storm of club we have been and currently still are with much still left unresolved. It's been debated and discused to the nth degree on any number of posts - so I don't really need reminding or being jumping on about it with rant after rant based simply initially commenting that Luton fucked up big time in the second half last night (which they did) when playing the game in hand they have over us, and then subsequently saying I am much happier that Luton lost it 4-3 over them winning 0-3.

A shit it as it the reality at this very moment in time Everton are in a relegation battle with Luton Town and Nottingham Forest.  I though this post was about the results on the run in to the season. 

It gets tediouse if every conversation just ends kick around the same old ground.

after this evenings match our odd for relegation have drifted from 5/1 to 13/2. 

If Luton had stayed at 0-3, I am pretty sure those odd will have shortened from 5/1. That switch in the result means our odds on avoiding relegation improved by more than 20%.

After seeing the half time score, then seeing Luton lose 4 second half goals improved my mood dramatically.

As daft as it might sound, given where we are in the season I am far happier seeing teams below us losing their game in hand rather than winning them.

I said i enjoyed Luton getting beat tonight. Who said they enjoyed watch Everton not wining 11 games? 

everton not winning or Dyche not performing is a separate debate.

if I don't enjoy these little nuggets when I can, I'd simply be grumpy all the time. 

I didn't need to 'fact' check you. If you care to look back, Mike had already correct the person who's 4 months you said you chose to jumped on (you must have simply missed or not fancied the corrected numbers). Hence, my original.comment of 'where does this 4 month keep coming from'? 

The 11 game league running is just the ever increasing running total of league games that everybody is taking about, so know the weekly tally without checking. West ham game was 10th game, simply hoping there won't be a 12th.

In fact, if we beat Bournmouth, I might just have that champagne you keep going on about, youv'e given be the taste. Something actually worth celebrating . (as I feel an away win there would be the catalyst to kick us on for the run in)

note- fair do's to you for you going back and finding out even more of the number you quoted where also wrong in the end. Although, ideally it's best to check the facts you are using at the beginning, as there's a risk of you getting a bit snotty or sensetive if someone pulled you up on any errors.

8 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

They've been there before.... 2 goals up vs Newcastle 20 minutes to play and drew 4-4. They've grabbed last minute equalisers despite being outplayed.... 

 I'd love to be able to say "yeah they will fall apart now"......  they aren't us!  They aren't a bunch of shithouses scared to have a pop. They have players who want to get on the ball. 

people quoting stats about Luton's results..... FFS just watch them. They are prepared to lose games by going for wins and I fancy them to get more wins than us and more losses than us in the run in. 

when players have their flip flops on in mid April protecting themselves for the euros or the next season - Luton are the last team you want them playing.  They will be playing Bournemouth and Wolves when they have nothing to play for. Bournemouth more or less secured survival tonight.  They have a 6 pointer vs us......

"you've had good times" 

 

well, it looked like they shit the bed to me tonight. and I'll simply take pleasure and a bit of enjoyment from in it while I can. 

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It is bad but it sounds like you’re a lot happier that we haven’t won in 11 league games in a row than 12, crack a bottle of champagne open Rob that’s got to be worth celebrating  

not really, I said 11 games and 3 month is plenty bad enough, and no need to be stretching the truth.

If your going to quote some facts, may as well quote the correct ones rather than strech them all a bit. Otherwise it just gets silly. 

Well Luton shit the bed tonight. Getting beat 4-3 after being 3 up is a bad way to lose a game. 

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

I did say in the league, I did know we have had one win in the FA cup in the last 13 games, but that win isn’t going to change our league position. 

so are you counting the FA cup draw (against Palace) but not the FA cup win against them in your 12 games? or including EFL cup?

otherwise ifs just league games then it's 11 games and not 12 since last win againt Burnley just less that 3months ago. 

just numbers (months and number of league games) you are saying originally are both incorrect. 

the numbers are bad enough without need to over embellishing.  

Where does this nearly 4 months keep coming from? last win was 2 months ago in FA Cup win (17th Jan), and less than 3 months (16th Dec) since league (not that 2 or 3 months are ideal).  That's a healthy 33% exaggeration.  

also 11 games in the league and not 12. 11's bad enough without sneaking in an extra one!!! 

Feeling all deja vu.

This is frustrating as hell, as without those points deduction this season, since the turn of the year we should have been a mid table team enjoying much more freedon in our approch to games. Instead of team building we are again a team having to battle and scrap to the bitter end of the season. 

I think we can all but right the championship chasing Arsenal and the Shite games off - so realistically 8 games left in my eye. 

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I think he'll want to leave and I won't blame him, and the club will probably see it as a good move as well.

I'd like him to still be here next season but I don't envisage it. It's not like Stones where we knew he wasn't going to be at Everton for a long time but we were in position to keep him for a few years first. The club is an absolute mess these days.

I agree, think he will move on. He has more than shown he is ready to step in to most Premier league clubs and demand to be in their starting line up.

If he get called up for England squad, which is a big possibility, we all have seen in the past how that turns heads.

It will all be about extracting the very maximum fee for him. Not many clubs with massive budgets this year, but we have to play Levy type hardball and make clubs pay a premium. At his age a buying club would really have a CB they build a team around - could have him in the team for +12 years. There will be lots of clubs interested in him, we simply have to be ruthless in our demands.

11 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Funny how dyche seems to be consistently unlucky.... I guess that tends to happen when as a manager your teams average less than a goal a game.

the fact is Lampard, silva etc could point at games and results where luck didn't go their way. 
 

 

we have come off the pitch well and truly beaten in both performances and results wise under a lot of managers in our recent history, players going on the pitch with lack luster efforts at best. Preceeding managers have not been particulay unlucky, they have just put teams out that have come of the pitch deserving to be beaten. It's been embarressing to watch - most of them with much better resources available to them than Dyche has. The past few months our team has been frustrating to watch as we have deserved more from a lot of the games. I don't feel embarressed by this team.

Even Ancellotti, he had a good run of a dozen game up to Xmas, but that team died a slow death after the turn of the New Year and played some pretty poor football. We have to remember a fair bit of the financial pain and anxitiy being suffered  this season is actually down to the money spend in the Ancelotti season. 

I don't think anybody is saying that Dyche is the best manager since sliced bread. He is however, better suited to where this club are now than the a lot if not all who have been here over Moshiri ownership.  We don't have a great record in chopping and changing managers. It seems that bit by bit each manager has chipped away at the club, even Ancelotti given the financial concequence of that season.  

Performances and effort of the player on the pitch are nowhere near bad enough for me to warrent sacking yet another manager. A new manager bounce isn't a given, and generally comes when a managers loses a dressing room. I don't beleive Dyche has lost the dressing room.

I think it may have been the 'construction' cost that had been locked in. I  am sure they would have been a variation allowed for inflation in material cost. For a project of this scale and the world we currently find ourseles, no contractor would have taken on that level of risk. In all honesty, had we actaully locked the Contractor in to a fixed price and them taking the financial hit on rise in materials, give the amount they have gone up, it could well have sent them and many of their specialist sub contractors in to administation, so we would still have a significant debt and a half or three quater stadium build, load of corners cut by the Contractor, and no Contracotors about with knowledge of getting it finished.

Materials might be costing a bit more, but everybody will be getting fairly paid, and we will end up with a top no corners cut job.

Laing Construction all but went bust on the construction of Wale's Millenium statium at the end of the 90's and Laings where taken over by O'Roukes on the back of that project.  They will not make that mistake again.

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Would they though? Why???!  No wins in 11 games.  0.67 per game.

Sacking form 
 

 

but in that 11 game run there was:

1 game away to fulham - a decent enough away point. OK

2 games against Man City, 2 defeats - expect results, no shame and not bad performances. Understandable. 

2 games against Spurs -  1 defeat away (expected results be we actually played well enough to win - very unlucky) and draw at home (not an total unexpected result against a top four challenging side form wise). Unlucky in both really. OK

1 game verses Villa - home draw against a top 4 side (again not that bad a results). OK

1 game away to Brighton - draw (should have won come the final whistle - but no shame in this result), annoying but OK 

1 game away to Man Utd - not a game Everton ever really win. However, performace deserved better. frustrating, but OK

1 games away to Wolves - played poorly and got beat away by a tidy enough Wolves team  - disappointing performance, and Dyche said as much. Away loses happen in PL football. 

1 Palace at home - should have won only got a draw (2 points lost) - confidence issue and relatievly poor performance.

1 West Ham Home - should have won (2 point lost) - confidence issue as performance did deserve a better result.

Personally, 2 points dropped against Palace and 3 points dropped against West Ham are the two results that really disappointed me in the run of 11 games.

So really only 2 or 3, that you would really say are massivley disappointing or unexpected/unacceptable results. That's the real reason why not more people are not calling for Dyche to be sacked - a pragmatic view of more than just the final result of the last 11 games.

last 11 results - 0.45 points per game (sack the manager!!!)

previouse 11 results - 2.0 points per game (give the manager a new contract as we are in next seaons CL!!)

An average of 1.11 per game so far is fair enough considering the shit going on behind the scenes and difficuties in finishing. 

Based on what I have seen this season Dyche has this squad consistently performing as a middle of the table team. I would have taken that in August, so no reason at all to be sacking the man. There have be far far worst footballing crimes at this club over the past 8 years - performance and results wise. 

I think he has done plenty enough now to have played his way out of the starting 11. 

We have to now be bolder in games like both Bournmouth and Luton away and against Burnley, Forest, Brentford and Sheff Utd at home and at least have a right back who is going to give us much more going forward. It pretty much the bottom half of the table and all be games in which we should be going on the feild feeling positive that we are the better team, there is signficant scope to get a more forward thinking right back on the pitch.  

20 hours ago, patto said:

I agree Dyche ball is not great for attacking players Jack looked decent elsewhere. 

I don't think any player can use what is termed Dyche ball as a excuse. There are opertunities in most game for our offensive players to  show moments of quality or make moment of quality happen. The problem is as much the quality (or lack of) of the player as it is the system in which they play.

I remember when Harrison played against us for Leeds, he had a couple of stinkers, if I remember correctly the last game he played against us he was particualy poor.

Being a hard worker has always been his best attribute, genuine quality being spasmodic at best. Dyche ball actually probably suits the worker like Harrison's of this world. 

£8M for Gray was business it seens we couldn't turn down, give our finances,  his fringe position in the squad and him being on his final year.  Being on his final year and he low fee, that has to go down as mostly profit on the books. 

He's not done anywhere near enough to earn a £20m transfer. 

48 minutes ago, Haiku said:

DCL and Beto have 5 goals combined this season... 

to be honest not one of the offensive players are stepping up to grab a goal or two.  You would expect wingers and midfielders to be chipping in here and there, it not just strikers, everybody's lost the final touch if front of goal.