Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Matt]

 

As I have stated before, being physically mature enough at 16 meant Lukaku had played more games than all the previous players - by the time he was 18 he had made 73 appearances for Anderlecht - more than any of those players at the same age plus he was featuring for longer in the games and starting - he was playing fore them whilst in school!!! .... Messi made his debut at 17 years and 114 days - he made 7 appearances that season. 17 appearances the next season...

 

Owen didn't feature for a full season till he was 18. This is all with discounting the fact that these players were playing in far tougher leagues.

 

Its very well stating the number of goals scored "by an age" - a physical specimen at 16 playing in a lower quality league for a superior team is one convenient way of trying to compare him to Messi, Owen and Rooney...

 

Regarding Martinez I don't see him stating that next season he wants to be at another club playing in the champions league, he has stated he will take Everton to the champions league.

Thats because hes employed by Everton and his job. Lukaku is not employed by Everton and is looking to perform at the highest level because he believes he will excel. Stats are with him there.

 

 

Just because he was physically mature earlier is mostly irrelevant - he wouldn't have played those 73 appearances if he wasnt good enough. If Anderlecht isnt a good enough example, how about just looking at his premier league record, because that tells the same story but against a higher level of competition.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Matt

[Madmatt]

i understand both sides of the coin, and my heart says lets go for it....the clincher for me is this

 

Roberto wants him. and if he is good enough for him, he is good enough for me.

[Hafnia]

Thats because hes employed by Everton and his job. Lukaku is not employed by Everton and is looking to perform at the highest level because he believes he will excel. Stats are with him there.

 

 

Just because he was physically mature earlier is mostly irrelevant - he wouldn't have played those 73 appearances if he wasnt good enough. If Anderlecht isnt a good enough example, how about just looking at his premier league record, because that tells the same story but against a higher level of competition.

 

How is it irrelevant? At 16 most lads are barely 10 stone and have 3 years of growth before being strong enough - Lukaku was a fully grown man at 15 which meant he could physically cope, players are pretty much "technically" where they are going to be at 16. So it is not irrelevant at all. Shearer made his debut at 18 - Lukaku had scored 33 of his goals at the age shearer was given his debut. Its a tabloid headline stat which does not stand up to further analysis.

 

You need games to score goals, and if he has played more games than all those players that he has been compared with, at a lower level then of course those stats are going to favour him.

 

You may as well just have the headline saying "Lukaku was a physically matured beast at 16 and got 33 goals by the time he was 18..." that in essence is what the stat is.

[Romey 1878]

 

That maybe so - in fact yes I would say he probably would score 20 in a full season, he's got a 1 in 2 ratio and that is more than respectable. I would also say that the whole "when was the last time someone scored x amount of goals" stat is up to debate.

 

I believe that many a decent striker would have flourished for us last season compared to other seasons, under Moyes we never played to suit the goal scoring striker, last season our play definately did.

 

But we'll never know how he would have done playing for us under Moyes' tactics, he may have done exactly the same. So I think it's a bit unfair to downplay his achievements of last season. Plus, I don't think he's the one-trick pony you make him out to be - his assists tally suggests otherwise. And I've watched the season review and even in the goals he's not directly involved in, either through finishing them or setting them up, he tends to play a role in them along the way. He's a fantastic talent - maybe not as good as he thinks he is already but nowhere near as limited as you think he is. Maybe you're letting your anger at his ego get in the way? I don't know.

 

As I've said for a while, I'd be very happy if we bought him but at the same time I have my reservations.

[Lowensda]

 

But we'll never know how he would have done playing for us under Moyes' tactics, he may have done exactly the same. So I think it's a bit unfair to downplay his achievements of last season. Plus, I don't think he's the one-trick pony you make him out to be - his assists tally suggests otherwise. And I've watched the season review and even in the goals he's not directly involved in, either through finishing them or setting them up, he tends to play a role in them along the way. He's a fantastic talent - maybe not as good as he thinks he is already but nowhere near as limited as you think he is. Maybe you're letting your anger at his ego get in the way? I don't know.

 

As I've said for a while, I'd be very happy if we bought him but at the same time I have my reservations.

[Hafnia]

 

But we'll never know how he would have done playing for us under Moyes' tactics, he may have done exactly the same. So I think it's a bit unfair to downplay his achievements of last season. Plus, I don't think he's the one-trick pony you make him out to be - his assists tally suggests otherwise. And I've watched the season review and even in the goals he's not directly involved in, either through finishing them or setting them up, he tends to play a role in them along the way. He's a fantastic talent - maybe not as good as he thinks he is already but nowhere near as limited as you think he is. Maybe you're letting your anger at his ego get in the way? I don't know.

 

As I've said for a while, I'd be very happy if we bought him but at the same time I have my reservations.

 

For me Romey its a juggernaut of expectation and hype that has gotten out of control. Its the size of him and the way he can score goals that gets people excited. I don't believe I'm unfair on him, if he wasn't being touted at £24m I wouldn't have the problem, his ego is deffo a concern.

 

For me he is in the Jack Wilshire overhyped, massive ego bracket. Both players need to knuckle down with regards to different aspects of their game.

 

The sweet spot for me is the cost, we need to protect ourselves. Could a permanent move see him become overburdened? A loan move often offers a player a more carefree approach in terms of shouldering responsibility. I am just not convinced at this time that he offers us the comfort of knowing that £24m will be a safe investment...

[Matt]

 

How is it irrelevant? At 16 most lads are barely 10 stone and have 3 years of growth before being strong enough - Lukaku was a fully grown man at 15 which meant he could physically cope, players are pretty much "technically" where they are going to be at 16. So it is not irrelevant at all. Shearer made his debut at 18 - Lukaku had scored 33 of his goals at the age shearer was given his debut. Its a tabloid headline stat which does not stand up to further analysis.

 

You need games to score goals, and if he has played more games than all those players that he has been compared with, at a lower level then of course those stats are going to favour him.

 

You may as well just have the headline saying "Lukaku was a physically matured beast at 16 and got 33 goals by the time he was 18..." that in essence is what the stat is.

Because if he wasnt good enough, doesnt matter how physically mature you are, you wont get a game. Lukaku got games at an early age because he was good enough. The physicality is a bonus.

 

The stat absolutely stands up for further analysis - if youre good enough youre old enough. Maybe Shearer wasnt good enough when he was young and had to wait his turn? You absolutely need games to score goals. You only get games if you're good enough to play them.

 

 

But we'll never know how he would have done playing for us under Moyes' tactics, he may have done exactly the same. So I think it's a bit unfair to downplay his achievements of last season. Plus, I don't think he's the one-trick pony you make him out to be - his assists tally suggests otherwise. And I've watched the season review and even in the goals he's not directly involved in, either through finishing them or setting them up, he tends to play a role in them along the way. He's a fantastic talent - maybe not as good as he thinks he is already but nowhere near as limited as you think he is. Maybe you're letting your anger at his ego get in the way? I don't know.

 

As I've said for a while, I'd be very happy if we bought him but at the same time I have my reservations.

Good summation

 

 

For me Romey its a juggernaut of expectation and hype that has gotten out of control. Its the size of him and the way he can score goals that gets people excited. I don't believe I'm unfair on him, if he wasn't being touted at £24m I wouldn't have the problem, his ego is deffo a concern.

 

For me he is in the Jack Wilshire overhyped, massive ego bracket. Both players need to knuckle down with regards to different aspects of their game.

 

The sweet spot for me is the cost, we need to protect ourselves. Could a permanent move see him become overburdened? A loan move often offers a player a more carefree approach in terms of shouldering responsibility. I am just not convinced at this time that he offers us the comfort of knowing that £24m will be a safe investment...

This is exactly why I rate him so highly and get so excited, nothing to do with his size at all.

 

I dont know how you can compare him to Wilshere, the glass man who barely plays because of injuries and has occasional excellent games before disappearing for the season. He is the opposite in every way.

 

The last part I completely understand and agree with up to the "safe investment" part. He's going to be a star. Think of him as my James McCarthy in the sense of how you were championing the player to everybody and anybody because of your faith in the lad. I see a player there who is going on to great things and it frustrates me that not everyone can see it.

[Steve_E]

If this signing happens, so be it. I'm sure he'll continue to score plenty of goals. And if you want anyone else that is all but guaranteed to score 15+ goals next year, you will have to pay a ton of money, whether it's Lukaku or anyone else. And a Barkley and Lukaku pairing is going to be scary on counter attacks.

 

But he isn't the ideal fit to me. My ideal striker and the type that I think we need is like a Patrick Kluivert type. Someone that is equally comfortable making runs in behind when there's space to be exploited as he is playing with his back to goal in a dominant side, someone who's presence will mean that the wingers and attacking midfielders will score more as well.

 

I think Lukaku's assist stats (6 in the league) look way more impressive than they really are btw. The assist against Manchester United for Oviedo's goal is a scuffed shot. His assist against Fulham is a save by the keeper that bounced off him against Barry. His assist against Norwich is a very simple lay-off for a long distance goal by Barry. I don't want to minimize his contributions to these goals, but it's mostly luck for the first two goals and 99% Barry's doing for the third goal.

 

His assist against West-Brom is a long ball he headed on which ends up in the path of Kevin Mirallas. He had an assist in both of our games against Newcastle: one is a very good pass to Barkley on a counter attack, the other one is a ball he receives just outside of the box which he selflessly passes on to the right so Osman can hit it.

[MarkEFC]

Theres talks that he is in talks with liverpool...

[Romey 1878]

If this signing happens, so be it. I'm sure he'll continue to score plenty of goals. And if you want anyone else that is all but guaranteed to score 15+ goals next year, you will have to pay a ton of money, whether it's Lukaku or anyone else. And a Barkley and Lukaku pairing is going to be scary on counter attacks.

 

But he isn't the ideal fit to me. My ideal striker and the type that I think we need is like a Patrick Kluivert type. Someone that is equally comfortable making runs in behind when there's space to be exploited as he is playing with his back to goal in a dominant side, someone who's presence will mean that the wingers and attacking midfielders will score more as well.

 

You're probably right but he seems to be who Martinez wants, so until he signs for us or elsewhere be prepared for this roundabout to continue!

[Brett Angel]

Theres talks that he is in talks with liverpool...

Bullshit!!!

[Hafnia]

Because if he wasnt good enough, doesnt matter how physically mature you are, you wont get a game. Lukaku got games at an early age because he was good enough. The physicality is a bonus.

 

The stat absolutely stands up for further analysis - if youre good enough youre old enough. Maybe Shearer wasnt good enough when he was young and had to wait his turn? You absolutely need games to score goals. You only get games if you're good enough to play them.

 

Good summation

 

This is exactly why I rate him so highly and get so excited, nothing to do with his size at all.

 

I dont know how you can compare him to Wilshere, the glass man who barely plays because of injuries and has occasional excellent games before disappearing for the season. He is the opposite in every way.

 

The last part I completely understand and agree with up to the "safe investment" part. He's going to be a star. Think of him as my James McCarthy in the sense of how you were championing the player to everybody and anybody because of your faith in the lad. I see a player there who is going on to great things and it frustrates me that not everyone can see it.

 

Physicality is the main reason you don't see many young lads play at 16 - at 16 he was physically developed enough and good enough to play in the belgian league, its hardly the same as Michael Owen, Messi or Wayne Rooney playing international class defenders in one of the toughest leagues in the world. Anderlecht have won their league 33 times... he was a striker in a team that presented more goalscoring opportunites than most team in eurpoe against their opponents.

 

I'm not getting into this whole debate on why he has more goals at 21, its an insult to anyones intelligence to suggest that it stands up to Messi, Rooney, Owen and Shearer. There are so many inconsistencies to consider to make it a tangible metric.

[Hafnia]

Theres talks that he is in talks with liverpool...

 

whatever... just make any deal to wherever soon enough so we can get on with who we are going to sign with what money we have.

[Brett Angel]

 

whatever... just make any deal to wherever soon enough so we can get on with who we are going to sign with what money we have.

Lukaku is gonna leave me with à bitter taste in my mouth whatever happens. I'll always feel that he Will never buy into the everton way and will always be his ego and everton.

[Hafnia]

Lukaku is gonna leave me with à bitter taste in my mouth whatever happens. I'll always feel that he Will never buy into the everton way and will always be his ego and everton.

 

I must say, he hasn't quite taken the club to his heart the way I thought he would.

[MarkEFC]

Im not sure how much truth is behind it because in the same article they were saying that reus is on his way to liverpool... HA

[StevO]

Haf, we know you don't like him. We get it.

 

I have one question though. You have 100% faith and trust in Roberto, a lot more than you ever had in Moyes, so why don't you trust Robertos judgement when it comes to Lukaku?

[Newty82]

Haf, we know you don't like him. We get it.

 

I have one question though. You have 100% faith and trust in Roberto, a lot more than you ever had in Moyes, so why don't you trust Robertos judgement when it comes to Lukaku?

This for me. Not the Haf bit. But the Bobby bit.

 

At the end of all the over analysis by whoever and whatever, Roberto clearly wants him. He clearly rates him and having been the man who worked with him every day for 8 months, I kind of trust what he says over what arsene wenger says in a book or what some dodgy 'goals by 21' stat says.

[Hafnia]

Haf, we know you don't like him. We get it.

 

I have one question though. You have 100% faith and trust in Roberto, a lot more than you ever had in Moyes, so why don't you trust Robertos judgement when it comes to Lukaku?

Do we know how much Roberto is happy to pay? I don't believe we do. I do have faith in Roberto, does this mean I don't trust my own judgement too? No, of course it doesn't. At a lower price lukaku can be a good signing, not at the 20m bracket.

[StevO]

No Haf, forget the money. I'm talking about you being critical of the lads ability, where Roberto believes In his ability.

 

Ignore the money as Roberto clearly thinks he's worth the money. Though you have mentioned the money on many occasions, you have critisised his ability ten times more.

 

Why don't you trust Robertos opinion on his ability after spending a season with him? That is my question.

Edited July 15, 2014 by StevO

[c1982]

With Ba going to Turkey, I can see Chelsea wanting to sign someone else (maybe even Drogba again) before they allow Rom to go.

[Hafnia]

No Haf, forget the money. I'm talking about you being critical of the lads ability, where Roberto believes In his ability.

 

Ignore the money as Roberto clearly thinks he's worth the money. Though you have mentioned the money on many occasions, you have critisised his ability ten times more.

 

Why don't you trust Robertos opinion on his ability after spending a season with him? That is my question.

I don't see where it is that being a big fan of Roberto means you throw any judgement you have of a player out the window. It is possible to rate a manager but question a potential signing. Just like it's ok to question games where he got his tactics wrong.

[Cornish Steve]

It must be a full moon or something, with more than the usual amount of bickering. Thought I'd change the subject a bit.

 

One of the main sponsors of the Fox Soccer channel in the US is a company that sells football jerseys and the like. They had this English commentator announcing names with inflated importance as each shirt was displayed on the screen. "Rooney...Gerrard..." Then they'd show a blue Chelsea shirt and shout "Luca-Koo". Hopefully they'll get it right when he's in an Everton shirt.

[Cornish Steve]

Theres talks that he is in talks with liverpool...

 

You got your mucking words fuddled: "There's talk that he is in Liverpool for talks."

[StevO]

I'm not saying you can't question his judgement because your a big fan of his. What I'm asking is while you have the trust in him that you have, why don't you trust his opinion on Lukaku?

You must admit that you've seen him play every everton game he's played, probably a hand full for west brom and Chelsea, Belgium too. But Roberto saw him every day. You have faith in every aspect of Robertos ability to motivate, to inspire, to challenge and to develop. But when it comes to Lukaku you don't trust him. That's what I don't understand.

 

Personally I think he's good enough, but I trust Robertos opinion of a player over mine because he knows more than I do.

[Paddock]

I honestly think that the boy will be a superstar one day and I also think if we signed him he would most defo have a sell on value I'm also not sure on the whole "he doesn't get the Everton way" line of thinking either. I'm not sure many modern day footballers fall in love with clubs anymore, agents see to that. It's not unheard of but it's a lot less common. Martinez , IF he is leaving all his eggs in one basket waiting for him is, inho niave to say the least and if that 's the case it worries me greatly that he is doing this!

[Paddock]

I'll sort of repeat what I said in the rumourama thread...

 

I think the lad will be a superstar one day I really do and I also think at 21 he will have a decent sell on value for us which is a must for a club with our financial situation. I also don't buy into the "he's doesn't get the Everton way" line of thinking, I don't think many players these days fit into that line of thinking, it's not unheard of but with agents in their ear the days of players falling in love with clubs are numbered. You only have to look across Stanley Park for an example of that.

 

All things considered, he does seem to have an ego but he also seems to look up to (not literally) to Martinez so there is no reason why under his guidance the boy can't develop into a Drogba like status and if he does and we sell him on at 25/26 for 50 million plus then everyones a winner. He'll score goals we all know that and that is one thing nobody can argue against. He seems liked by the other players and Martinez seems smitten with him. I really can't see an argument against signing him but if he is umming and ahhing for too long we should drop him and move on. Nobody is bigger than this club!

[Stuie Hayllor]

I can't wait for the lad to make his mind up. Whether it's with us or somewhere else it feels like we won't be moving forward in the transfer market until his future is sorted

[EFC-Paul]

Agreed

 

It does seem that our lack of activity could be due to any Lukaku deal but I just can't see Martinez being that naive to have all his eggs in one basket?

 

The whole Lukaku saga is starting to get on my tits now though I just hope either way he signs for someone soon!

[Paddock]

I can't wait for the lad to make his mind up. Whether it's with us or somewhere else it feels like we won't be moving forward in the transfer market until his future is sorted

Amen to that. It does need sorting one way or another. Personally I hope he signs and is worth the wait but if it goes tits up and we're left standing there holding our dicks while he goes and scores 20 a season elsewhere!! It does seem like everything is hinging on this. I would imagine most of our budget will go on this transfer, if it collapses I think it's going to be a case of one will get you two so to speak and we'll move for different targets we couldn't afford if he did sign.