Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Lowensda]

I think I've been in the "forget the goals, I want to see who you are as a footballer" for a long time.

 

At the moment I feel very shortchanged. It's like he has a choice as to what he's gonna do in terms of effort, the pantomime villain ballotelli did this but didn't get away with it. Rom tries to be a little too cute.

 

I will be the first to say it when he has a great performance, sadly they are few and far between. It's a repetitive pattern. I said after the Southampton game that I doubt we will see a similar level of performance until he drops tools enough to get a bollocking. Well let's just say that it's around the corner.

 

I admire the people who support him through his bad games, but ffs he can't keep getting away with 7/10 effort games because his control looked a bit better.

 

Watched a fair few football round ups and greatest ever shows recently. The best strikers took two touches if it wasn't put away with their first. Their first touch always putting them in a position to shoot. Till he gets that he is going to be one dimensional.

 

Not much was said about Naismith touch for his 3rd. Awesome and made it look simple.

 

To be fair, on average, that's a lot better than most of the team (especially last year!) aha

[Cornish Steve]

Didn't do enough on Saturday really, but while other players are scoring the goals and we pick up the points I can let it go. Needs a goal and performance next week for me.

 

I don't agree with this. He was involved in many excellent moves and won big tussles with sheer strength. Looking back, he was instrumental in the move that led to the first goal. Most encouraging of all is his growing partnership with Kone. If they stay injury-free, I can see them becoming a real striking powerhouse this season.

[StevO]

I don't see any partnership with Kone to be honest. As better as he has been this season, he is still just missing too much for the level we want to be.

I thought Rom played well, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't enough. He didn't cause enough problems, he can just do so much better. Hence my comment of not enough.

[Cornish Steve]

I don't see any partnership with Kone to be honest. As better as he has been this season, he is still just missing too much for the level we want to be.

I thought Rom played well, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't enough. He didn't cause enough problems, he can just do so much better. Hence my comment of not enough.

 

I went back and watched the 20-minute highlights. I was struck by how well the two of them work together. There were several examples that I didn't really appreciate at the time.

[pete0]

Naismith doesn't get the space for the second goal without their defenders being scared to leave Rom or Barkley alone. If he's on the pitch he's at least occupying the heads of the opposition and more often than not directly involved with a goal.

[Hafnia]

Naismith doesn't get the space for the second goal without their defenders being scared to leave Rom or Barkley alone. If he's on the pitch he's at least occupying the heads of the opposition and more often than not directly involved with a goal.

Blimey that is kinda scraping the barrel... Bring back the Straq.

[c1982]

Out of interest Haf, from our current squad with our usual system, who would you play as the lone striker?

[Hafnia]

Out of interest Haf, from our current squad with our usual system, who would you play as the lone striker?

Kone.

 

If we have a lone striker its key that the person can hold the ball up, it really is as simple as that.

 

I said a while back and insist to this day Lukaku is an impact player, best brought on with 30 minutes to go. Take advantage of tiring defenders.

 

He scored 19 goals for west brom like this. It may also motivate him to improve his weak points and get up for games more.

[Matt]

Kone.

 

If we have a lone striker its key that the person can hold the ball up, it really is as simple as that.

 

I said a while back and insist to this day Lukaku is an impact player, best brought on with 30 minutes to go. Take advantage of tiring defenders.

 

He scored 19 goals for west brom like this. It may also motivate him to improve his weak points and get up for games more.

I'd completely disagree. The 3 midfielders behind the lone striker should be linking up play and feeding the lone striker. Otherwise, just change the formation and play 4 attacking midfielders / 2AMC plus 2 wingers. Maybe just semantics.

[Lowensda]

I agree if our midfielders scored 15 odd a piece. They don't. They're creators, not scorers, so the best type of lone forward would be a goalscoring one. Which Rom is. Simple as that.

 

And he was better than Kone, in his all round game, no question.

 

Kone surprised me in the first few games but he was nowhere near the level he'd shown early on.

[Hafnia]

I'd completely disagree. The 3 midfielders behind the lone striker should be linking up play and feeding the lone striker. Otherwise, just change the formation and play 4 attacking midfielders / 2AMC plus 2 wingers. Maybe just semantics.

It's not League One Matt. Defender's are not sucked in by one dimensional strikers, that's why Rom is feast or famine and its invariably why he struggles against the better defender's.

 

Compare the teams he scores against to Naismith. Look at Naismith and his first goal, give and go. Rom is not suited to a lone striker role. He needs the work done for him - it is as clear as day.

[Hafnia]

I agree if our midfielders scored 15 odd a piece. They don't. They're creators, not scorers, so the best type of lone forward would be a goalscoring one. Which Rom is. Simple as that.

 

And he was better than Kone, in his all round game, no question.

 

Kone surprised me in the first few games but he was nowhere near the level he'd shown early on.

Well let's Give someone a go at the lone striker role and see how they do. Whilst Rom is a good goal scorer - defender's playing deep basically nullify his threat.

[Matt]

It's not League One Matt. Defender's are not sucked in by one dimensional strikers, that's why Rom is feast or famine and its invariably why he struggles against the better defender's.

 

Compare the teams he scores against to Naismith. Look at Naismith and his first goal, give and go. Rom is not suited to a lone striker role. He needs the work done for him - it is as clear as day.

Which is what I was getting at, he's a lone striker i.e. leave him alone to strike the ball into the back of the net. That's what he was bought for, that's what he's done when actually treated as a lone striker.

 

If you want link up player, you need creative players more than you need an all out goalscorer, provided they can score of course....

[Blue 250]

It's not League One Matt. Defender's are not sucked in by one dimensional strikers, that's why Rom is feast or famine and its invariably why he struggles against the better defender's.

 

 

 

So just which Everton striker past or present played/plays better when up against ' better defenders' !

 

We've just seen us beat Chelsea, Naismith takes all the goal scoring plaudits, rightly so, the whole team played well, Roms has played better than he did Saurday, so has Kone, McCarthy and a couple of others, but hey!.......we won.

 

Guess it was a perfect Saturday for you........a great result and Lukaku miss controls a few times and doesn't get on the scoresheet, doesn't get better than that.

 

Take your blinkers off ! Every single Everton player is capable of having a bad game.There certainly weren't any on Saturday.

 

Why can't we give Lukaku a rest until he has a poor game.

[Hafnia]

A lone striker is required to be more than just a finisher, how can a lone striker be just a ball through on goal operator.

 

A lone striker does not mean he is the end result player, it means that he is responsible for working across the line, making the defence have to spilt and not allow them to release the partner, for this it requires work rate and the ability to link up.

 

There is a reason Michael Owen wasn't suited to the lone striker role. He needed a partner.

 

So the answer to the question is, as a lone striker I would sooner have Kone.

[Hafnia]

 

So just which Everton striker past or present played/plays better when up against ' better defenders' !

 

We've just seen us beat Chelsea, Naismith takes all the goal scoring plaudits, rightly so, the whole team played well, Roms has played better than he did Saurday, so has Kone, McCarthy and a couple of others, but hey!.......we won.

 

Guess it was a perfect Saturday for you........a great result and Lukaku miss controls a few times and doesn't get on the scoresheet, doesn't get better than that.

 

Take your blinkers off ! Every single Everton player is capable of having a bad game.There certainly weren't any on Saturday.

 

Why can't we give Lukaku a rest until he has a poor game.

Look at the teams Rom scores against... Then come back and ask that question again.

 

Against better defender's he goes missing.

[StevO]

I wish we had a striker who could hold the ball up with a great first touch, nice link up play but doesn't score goals.

Instead we're stuck with this waste of space who keeps putting the bloody ball in the back of the net.

[markjazzbassist]

I wish we had a striker who could hold the ball up with a great first touch, nice link up play but doesn't score goals.

Instead we're stuck with this waste of space who keeps putting the bloody ball in the back of the net.

 

lol spot on. i love rom, one of my favorite players we have. and no haf i don't have his poster on my wall

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

This thread gets more ridiculous by the minute. Kone's first touch is probably just as erratic as Lukakus and his distribution is far worse

Poor first touch or not Lukaku provides a focal point for our attacks that no other player at the club could

We are a far better side with him in the team than we are without him and for me that's the end of the matter

[Hafnia]

Ok... Just to assert a point. From last season to this one so far he has scored against:-

 

West brom

Palace

Villa

Burnley

West ham

Wolfsburg

Hull

Young boys

Kiev

Newcastle

Southampton

Barnsley

 

In terms of the league that is 1 top half team side at time of fixture.

 

Naismith when not being main striker has scored against:-

 

Leicester

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man city

Man United

Lille

Kiev

 

Yes, he hasn't scored as many as Rom but he's had less minutes on the pitch not playing as a striker when on the pitch either.

 

My point is that Rom struggles to make an impact against better defender's where guile, intelligence and more than just "put it through on goal" is required and less intricate methods rarely reap success.

 

So whilst I do concede he can finish, my case remains that he has a tough time against better players when the likes of Naismith doesn't.

 

Of course the argument will be that Rom probably gave Naismith the opportunity to score those goals. The reality is different. Rom needs to improve all round.

 

Leaving this topic alone for a while. Hopefully my next post is to say "well done Rom, lets see a streak of these games"

[pete0]

The way we play it's easier to score against the big teams as they commit forward. The midfield is the main problem as they don't do enough to breakdown defensive teams effectively.

 

If that record was the other way round you'd accuse Rom of only being up for the big games.

Edited September 15, 2015 by pete0

[Lowensda]

Every time I come into this thread, I envisage throwing myself off a cliff, in a no win situation. Or face palming myself with a wrecking ball.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Ok... Just to assert a point. From last season to this one so far he has scored against:-

 

West brom

Palace

Villa

Burnley

West ham

Wolfsburg

Hull

Young boys

Kiev

Newcastle

Southampton

Barnsley

 

In terms of the league that is 1 top half team side at time of fixture.

 

Naismith when not being main striker has scored against:-

 

Leicester

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man city

Man United

Lille

Kiev

 

Yes, he hasn't scored as many as Rom but he's had less minutes on the pitch not playing as a striker when on the pitch either.

 

My point is that Rom struggles to make an impact against better defender's where guile, intelligence and more than just "put it through on goal" is required and less intricate methods rarely reap success.

 

So whilst I do concede he can finish, my case remains that he has a tough time against better players when the likes of Naismith doesn't.

 

Of course the argument will be that Rom probably gave Naismith the opportunity to score those goals. The reality is different. Rom needs to improve all round.

 

Leaving this topic alone for a while. Hopefully my next post is to say "well done Rom, lets see a streak of these games"

 

 

The reality is you are trying to manipulate stats to prove your point

 

What about the season before when he scored against Arsenal, Liverpool and City?

[markjazzbassist]

Haf did you see your dream striker Bony fluff 2 chances in CL league today? and you think he's "a lot better" than Lukaku. come on man!

[Cornish Steve]

Ok... Just to assert a point. From last season to this one so far he has scored against:-

 

West brom

Palace

Villa

Burnley

West ham

Wolfsburg

Hull

Young boys

Kiev

Newcastle

Southampton

Barnsley

 

In terms of the league that is 1 top half team side at time of fixture.

 

Naismith when not being main striker has scored against:-

 

Leicester

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man city

Man United

Lille

Kiev

 

Yes, he hasn't scored as many as Rom but he's had less minutes on the pitch not playing as a striker when on the pitch either.

 

My point is that Rom struggles to make an impact against better defender's where guile, intelligence and more than just "put it through on goal" is required and less intricate methods rarely reap success.

 

So whilst I do concede he can finish, my case remains that he has a tough time against better players when the likes of Naismith doesn't.

 

Of course the argument will be that Rom probably gave Naismith the opportunity to score those goals. The reality is different. Rom needs to improve all round.

 

Leaving this topic alone for a while. Hopefully my next post is to say "well done Rom, lets see a streak of these games"

But we play differently against top teams than lower teams. Correct me if I'm wrong, but against the top teams Rom draws defenders and creates space for others. Against lower teams, he's more direct. You're assuming we adopt the very same strategy is every game, and we don't.

[Hafnia]

Ha ha, priceless its right this thread has the same merry go round answers.

 

Now it's difficult to score against the poor teams so by some weird Rom law when Naismith scores against the top sides its because of Rom. And when Rom scores against West Ham its because we played to his strengths.

 

Then the obligatory Bony comment off Mark... Yes Mark, Bony is a better all round striker than Rom. If you wanna see fluffed chances there is a good highlights reel of Rom missing 4 sitters against Leicester. Plus many others.

 

That is why I said I will leave this thread alone. Lets just leave it the man himself.

 

Rom being Rom will have a blinder against Swansea because Naismith getting a hat trick with a tremendous all round performance is something that should fire him up. I guess after his next blinder its a case of what can we do to get him to continue that form into the next game.

 

So far we have seen a great game followed with comments like:-

 

"I wasnt fit, I am now"... Followed by a dip.

 

Then "we played direct and it suited me"... Followed by a dip.

 

After Southampton it was "ive had a full pre season and I'm fit, I wasn't last year"

 

Lads, it's like fookin clockwork. He has a world beater game and mentally seems to go on his holidays till he is held accountable.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Hafnia

[Lowensda]

 

What about the season before when he scored against Arsenal, Liverpool and City?

 

Of course they don't count! You're such an idiot.

[Hafnia]

 

Of course they don't count! You're such an idiot.

Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in... Do you want me to extend it back that far and include those teams??? Guess what...the stats still stand.

 

He appears very much a flat track bully. Percentage team goals scored vs lower level teams vs percentage team goals v higher level teams see Rom do well against poor defences.

 

As I've said time and time again we have seen no consistent performances from him barring his first 2-3 months on loan. Disagree if you want. But feel free to prove it.

[nogs]

A lone striker is required to be more than just a finisher, how can a lone striker be just a ball through on goal operator.

 

A lone striker does not mean he is the end result player, it means that he is responsible for working across the line, making the defence have to spilt and not allow them to release the partner, for this it requires work rate and the ability to link up.

 

There is a reason Michael Owen wasn't suited to the lone striker role. He needed a partner.

 

So the answer to the question is, as a lone striker I would sooner have Kone.

There's a reason why tactics are drifting away from the lone striker, unless you have a Drogba they simply do not score enough goals. You might as well have Marcus Bent playing up top on his own as Kone, except that Bent at least had goalscoring midfielders behind, this current squad doesn't.

 

So far this season, bar the second half against Barnsley, we've been at our best with Kone and then Naismith dropping off Lukaku and making use of the space left my defenders marking him. No, he hasn't got the magic Drogba touch to play up top on his own, but physically he's a handful and defenders stand off him warily, creating space for a Kone, Naismith or even Barkley to exploit. Then when defenders do step up to to nullify those threats, Rom gets that little bit of space he needs to run at goal from 20-25 yards, where he looks really dangerous.

 

It's a big improvement from last season where Lukaku was woefully isolated and therefore ineffective. Hats off to Martinez, he's finding a way to get results out of several players at the moment. But Lukaku, like him or not, is key to it. And best of all, when teams do start to work out the new system, we've got genuine wide men on the bench to play another way. Lukaku is also a pretty good poacher and will score a hatful if Geri keeps putting in crosses like he did against Barnsley.

 

In summary - it's a team game, and for me Rom is is doing just fine as a cog in the way we're playing at the moment.

[Hafnia]

There's a reason why tactics are drifting away from the lone striker, unless you have a Drogba they simply do not score enough goals. You might as well have Marcus Bent playing up top on his own as Kone, except that Bent at least had goalscoring midfielders behind, this current squad doesn't.

 

So far this season, bar the second half against Barnsley, we've been at our best with Kone and then Naismith dropping off Lukaku and making use of the space left my defenders marking him. No, he hasn't got the magic Drogba touch to play up top on his own, but physically he's a handful and defenders stand off him warily, creating space for a Kone, Naismith or even Barkley to exploit. Then when defenders do step up to to nullify those threats, Rom gets that little bit of space he needs to run at goal from 20-25 yards, where he looks really dangerous.

 

It's a big improvement from last season where Lukaku was woefully isolated and therefore ineffective. Hats off to Martinez, he's finding a way to get results out of several players at the moment. But Lukaku, like him or not, is key to it. And best of all, when teams do start to work out the new system, we've got genuine wide men on the bench to play another way. Lukaku is also a pretty good poacher and will score a hatful if Geri keeps putting in crosses like he did against Barnsley.

 

In summary - it's a team game, and for me Rom is is doing just fine as a cog in the way we're playing at the moment.

The point is Nogs a lone striker needs to be able to look after the ball to allow the midfield to advance, then receive the ball and create the final phase.

 

We do not play long ball from the back nor should we, but if we do the opposition will just have a deep defensive line and use a DM to mark Rom. That in his current ability level is enough to nullify him.