Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[markjazzbassist]

All if buts and maybes. Lukaku is doing it now and is one of the.best finishers in the world. A team finishing 11th, 11th and probably 7th should wake up every day thanking their lucky stars they have that in their squad.

 

west ham got away with it for 1 season before Payet threw a fit, Lukaku has been a perfect child compared to that. never once stopped playing or "quit". i imagine he would play out the last 2 years if we hold firm as well, doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to go on strike.

 

also the 100m is for Raiola. Remember this guy is the best at what he does, he will go find a team that will pay that because he gets a big cut too. He would rather 100m than 70m and he has the ear of every top manager and club.

[Paddock]

 

west ham got away with it for 1 season before Payet threw a fit, Lukaku has been a perfect child compared to that. never once stopped playing or "quit". i imagine he would play out the last 2 years if we hold firm as well, doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to go on strike.

 

also the 100m is for Raiola. Remember this guy is the best at what he does, he will go find a team that will pay that because he gets a big cut too. He would rather 100m than 70m and he has the ear of every top manager and club.

I'd sooner sell him this summer for 100mil yhan 50/60 next summer.

 

He wants to go- just let him and let everyone move on.

[Hafnia]

 

west ham got away with it for 1 season before Payet threw a fit, Lukaku has been a perfect child compared to that. never once stopped playing or "quit". i imagine he would play out the last 2 years if we hold firm as well, doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to go on strike.

 

also the 100m is for Raiola. Remember this guy is the best at what he does, he will go find a team that will pay that because he gets a big cut too. He would rather 100m than 70m and he has the ear of every top manager and club.

He will go for whatever a team is prepared to pay vs whatever we will accept - simple as that.

 

The role of an agent is vastly overstated in a transfer bar the interests of the player.

 

Lukaku will be expecting to be sold and i expect him to make a lot of noise if he isn't.

 

Last year he primed himself for a move but had a shit run in and a shit euros which meant no club's coughed up the £60m we wanted.

 

His stock is the highest it has been so he will want to strike whilst iron is hot.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Hafnia

[Bailey]

Agreed re the "better players" and their interplay with him.

 

When Belgium play better teams they try and play quick one touch football - he can't adapt to it. He wants balls crossed over or through balls played through. Dropping deep and linking is not his game.

 

Have Belgium beaten any top sides? Given the amount of talent they seem to struggle.

 

Either way £100m will not be met. It's a few designed to ensure we get £80m which is what we wanted in the summer I believe.

 

Griezmann will go for less.

Re your and Holy's comments, you are right as Lukaku isn't the type of striker you want to play nice intricate build up to. He would be poor for Pep or for Barca etc but there are plenty of good teams that don't play that way. His style would suit Utd and Chelsea, I haven't seen either Madrid for a while but I suspect it would suit Real pretty well, maybe less so with Atletico.

[Bailey]

This is the bit that many people are missing... lukaku isn't some sort of gift to the club in the way that 20 goal strikers are a rarity. There have been stacks of 20 goal strikers knocking around...

 

The awful fact is that lukaku represents a change in the club's operating style for the first time in all those years...we had absolute shite like John Spencer, mik madar, Nick Chadwick, mo Johnson, Brett angel, James beattie, a finished mark hughes....

 

Supported by lie tie, alexandersson, pembridge, gemmills, Tony grants.... fookin awful.

And we bought some 20 goal a season strikers. Andy Johnson, Yak, Beattie, Saha , Beckford at a lower level but they haven't come close to Rom in any way shape or form. Rom was also far less experienced than them too and he had only had 1 bit part season with West Brom.

 

I take your point about the players behind those strikers but the quality of the other teams in the league, the general quality of defending outside the top half dozen teams were also not to the same level they are today. You don't get a bad side in the Premier League anymore and every team has money.

 

If those players mentioned, plus Cahill or Felli can score the goals they did then there is absolutely no doubt that Lukaku would have scored more and been at least bloody close to 20 goals each time.

 

You are right, he isn't a gift to this club but you have to recognise but it won't be easy to simply fill his goals and assists and general contribution to the team. When he leaves he will leave a hole and if we don't fill it straight away we will be losing ground on the teams around us.

[Bailey]

I'm of the belief that a Louis saha of 2009 would be smashing in 20 plus goals in this team. That may well be debated and we will never know- but under moyes strikers had a hard time but the 5th midfielder had rich pickings.

 

Crazy as it sounds beckford would score a good number too.

 

The stagnation that has engulfed this club has meant lukaku is feted as some sort of super hero.

 

he is probably a better one on one finisher than lineker... movement isn't close. Has a better shot than lineker. The bottom line is he's a tremendous finisher. But I think yakubu was too.

 

Interested to see how we look with a different "high costing" striker.... only then will we know if my points are proven or not.

Saha probably could have, but he was a superb player. He went to Utd for a decent fee but couldn't keep himself fit. Saha wasn't exactly the hardest working striker in the world either however he was brilliant from a technical perspective.

 

I still think Lukaku would have scored more for Moyes because he was more physical. At times we play a bit like Moyes' Everton sides. Dogged and determined as opposed to skillful and adventurous.

[StevO]

Very far behind here, but Haf Roms first touch for his goal was not to stop the ball dead. It was to push the ball round the defender while he turned him, and into his path to goal.

 

All the rest of the posts since are just rubbish ?

[Hafnia]

And we bought some 20 goal a season strikers. Andy Johnson, Yak, Beattie, Saha , Beckford at a lower level but they haven't come close to Rom in any way shape or form. Rom was also far less experienced than them too and he had only had 1 bit part season with West Brom.

 

I take your point about the players behind those strikers but the quality of the other teams in the league, the general quality of defending outside the top half dozen teams were also not to the same level they are today. You don't get a bad side in the Premier League anymore and every team has money.

 

If those players mentioned, plus Cahill or Felli can score the goals they did then there is absolutely no doubt that Lukaku would have scored more and been at least bloody close to 20 goals each time.

 

You are right, he isn't a gift to this club but you have to recognise but it won't be easy to simply fill his goals and assists and general contribution to the team. When he leaves he will leave a hole and if we don't fill it straight away we will be losing ground on the teams around us.

Stick lukaku in the moyes side of 2009 ish and he would not have got as many goals - I doubt he will have got as much game time.

 

The team was built to be solid first and foremost from goalkeeper to striker- every player had a duty to stop the opponents playing.

 

I said at the time you Could get the best striker in the world under moyes and he would struggle.

 

Louis Saha at one stage looked the most technically gifted all round striker I have seen. Injuries meant we didn't see it.

 

Most United players who played with him rate him as the best they played with in that regard.

[Romey 1878]

http://twitter.com/premierleague/status/854807003679649792

[Bailey]

http://twitter.com/premierleague/status/854807003679649792

What amazing service he has! The team is built around him don't you know ?

[markjazzbassist]

What amazing service he has! The team is built around him don't you know

 

LOL

[Romey 1878]

He's been named in the PFA PL team of the year.

[Lowensda]

Couldn't be left out, surely?

[Hafnia]

What amazing service he has! The team is built around him don't you know ?

Its Goals to shots "on target". It doesn't say how many shots he's had or chances that have been created. He's got a 64% shot on target ratio. Kane has 65%, mane 63%, firminho 65%, hazard 61%, king 61%, deeney 58%.

 

He has had 11 more attempts on goal than Kane which equates to 7 more shots on target which equates to 4 more goals.

 

To say he's not had service takes the piss... after all it's the number one excuse you use when he doesn't score so you are saying that his Goals are all down to him and his individual flair? Bollocks

Edited April 20, 2017 by Hafnia

[c1982]

Do you think he deserves his place in PFA team of the year Haf?

[Hafnia]

Do you think he deserves his place in PFA team of the year Haf?

Based on his goals scored I do yeah.

 

If you were to ask me to pick a side based on other factors then I would have Kane and zlatan.

[c1982]

Based on his goals scored I do yeah.

 

If you were to ask me to pick a side based on other factors then I would have Kane and zlatan.

Would he be your player of the year for Everton?

[Hafnia]

Would he be your player of the year for Everton?

No. Gueye then lukaku/Barkley.

 

Lukaku has gone missing in the big games - simple as that. I'm not getting drawn into the whole debate around that- quite simply against the better teams he Labours when he needs to press their defence and get stuck in.

 

The 5 goal thrashing by Chelsea was a pure example of that. Throw in the recent derby and man United game to support it.

 

I'm actually of the belief that he should be started on the bench in those games and that Valencia's energy and footballing ability would help us "get out" more.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Hafnia

[Matt]

No. Gueye then lukaku/Barkley.

 

Lukaku has gone missing in the big games - simple as that. I'm not getting drawn into the whole debate around that- quite simply against the better teams he Labours when he needs to press their defence and get stuck in.

 

The 5 goal thrashing by Chelsea was a pure example of that. Throw in the recent derby and man United game to support it.

 

I'm actually of the belief that he should be started on the bench in those games and that Valencia's energy and footballing ability would help us "get out" more.

The whole team went missing though

[Hafnia]

The whole team went missing though

First off the formation meant that we tried to match them man for man. Every single attack came from their defence - Luiz stepping out and picking a pass that took the midfield out - who's job was it to stop him doing That? It meant that once their defence had gone past him it was like playing with a man down and they made it count against the 3 man defence.

 

 

It's all very well celebrating his goals - the difference in the league is defined when the top 6 teams play each other. When you play against these teams you can't allow them to play. Nearly all of them play from the back.

 

"The whole team went missing".... It's another typical response to any criticism aimed at lukaku. When he scores goals it's because he's brilliant and he gets all the plaudits - when he doesn't it's because he's isolated or service is shit.

 

The fact is and it has been repeated by pundits such as carragher and sounnes of recent is - he doesn't show against the better teams where you need to put in the hard yards. It's like playing with one man less.

 

For that reason he will never be my type of player. Wrong attitude.... pretty much opposite of all the things I like about tom davies.

[Matt]

First off the formation meant that we tried to match them man for man. Every single attack came from their defence - Luiz stepping out and picking a pass that took the midfield out - who's job was it to stop him doing That? It meant that once their defence had gone past him it was like playing with a man down and they made it count against the 3 man defence.

 

 

It's all very well celebrating his goals - the difference in the league is defined when the top 6 teams play each other. When you play against these teams you can't allow them to play. Nearly all of them play from the back.

 

"The whole team went missing".... It's another typical response to any criticism aimed at lukaku. When he scores goals it's because he's brilliant and he gets all the plaudits - when he doesn't it's because he's isolated or service is shit.

 

The fact is and it has been repeated by pundits such as carragher and sounnes of recent is - he doesn't show against the better teams where you need to put in the hard yards. It's like playing with one man less.

 

For that reason he will never be my type of player. Wrong attitude.... pretty much opposite of all the things I like about tom davies.

And who's job is it to stop shots on target?

 

It's a typical response because it's accurate. Unless you're saying we only lose games because of Rom?

[Lowensda]

And who's job is it to stop shots on target?

 

It's a typical response because it's accurate. Unless you're saying we only lose games because of Rom?

 

I'm getting that impression

[Hafnia]

And who's job is it to stop shots on target?

 

It's a typical response because it's accurate. Unless you're saying we only lose games because of Rom?

If you want to discuss why I don't consider jags, Williams, Robles or stek as being our player of the year then maybe we can involve them in this.... but as with all criticism (or non eulogising) of Rom it seems that his team mates need to take accountability.

 

Funny... When it comes to praising Rom team mates aren't even mentioned (even though he gets the vast majority of any forward played passes aimed at him)... but when he's criticised his team mates get brought up.

 

I was asked if lukaku was my player of the year and I said no because he disappears in big games when we need him to do a job that is a bit more demanding of him than waiting for us to provide him with chances to convert.

 

That opinion was formed well before this season- seen nothing to change that either.

 

Big players change big games.... He doesn't. He's had 25+ big games for us and I can count on one hand the ones where he stood out and did a good job (not by goals) by his input and attitude. Two games against man city (one he didn't score in but bullied mangala) the Chelsea fa cup game, the Anfield derby from a year or so ago where he had a kick off with sakho.

 

Other than that my overriding memory of him will be a striker who goes through the motions in the big games waiting for something to happen.

[EFC-Paul]

I'd actually go with Lukaku and Zlatan over Kane, Lukaku for the goals he's scored in a slightly weaker side than Spurs and Zlatan for his goals and impact in his first and possibly only season over here

 

How Cahill Luiz and especially De Gea get in there is beyond me, typical who you play for nonsense tbh

 

Well done to Rom though as much as I see his flaws and his attitude towards leaving pisses me off you have to give him massive credit, Romseal - does exactly what it says on the tin

Edited April 20, 2017 by EFC-Paul

[Lowensda]

If you want to discuss why I don't consider jags, Williams, Robles or stek as being our player of the year then maybe we can involve them in this.... but as with all criticism (or non eulogising) of Rom it seems that his team mates need to take accountability.

 

Funny... When it comes to praising Rom team mates aren't even mentioned (even though he gets the vast majority of any forward played passes aimed at him)... but when he's criticised his team mates get brought up.

 

I was asked if lukaku was my player of the year and I said no because he disappears in big games when we need him to do a job that is a bit more demanding of him than waiting for us to provide him with chances to convert.

 

That opinion was formed well before this season- seen nothing to change that either.

 

Big players change big games.... He doesn't. He's had 25+ big games for us and I can count on one hand the ones where he stood out and did a good job (not by goals) by his input and attitude. Two games against man city (one he didn't score in but bullied mangala) the Chelsea fa cup game, the Anfield derby from a year or so ago where he had a kick off with sakho.

 

Other than that my overriding memory of him will be a striker who goes through the motions in the big games waiting for something to happen.

 

I don't think that actually happens, I think you like to think it does.

 

On a seperate note, there are times where Rom will get highlighted for a poor performance over 10 other players on the field. The odd player (Joel) might get a couple of posts about how well or shite he's done but generally, the other players and threads get nowhere near the attention that this one does and therefore avoid the majority of criticism (which should be spread where necessary IMO).

 

Unfortunately, Matt's post about team support is valid in those examples, although Rom isn't and shouldn't be excluded from criticism when it's due. To blame Lukaku for the whole team's performance is ridiculous but your critique(s) of him in those big games is understandable and evidence supports that. He hasn't performed in those games, there's no getting away from that but playing devil's advocate for a moment (and talking hypothetically) would he have played better if the players behind him had? Who knows?

 

Using Souness to support your views on a player, the guy is a bellend and a biased nob-rot (i'll give you the Carragher one because I believe he's one of the best/soundest pundits out there (unfortunately)).

 

I agree that Rom's attitude at times has been questionable, he's certainly responsible for what he says in the media (whether he's defended or not) and the way he conducts himself on the field (some games) is beyond a joke. However, there are other times that Lukaku has quite literally, pulled us out the shit. Without his goal scoring record, we wouldn't be anywhere near the level we are now.

 

Can we get players with better attitudes? Yes we can but will they score as many or bring as much to the table? I don't know.

 

We've said for years that Everton have been too "nice". We've gone for players who are "nice guys", they give all the effort but don't get the results (Naismith for example). If Everton truly want to compete, we need a ruthless edge. Lukaku's goal tally, unfortunately for you Haf, currently outweighs his "attitude". I like you, would love for every single player who steps out in that jersey to have the same attitude as Labone or Ball but they're like rocking horse shit in modern football. Football is a business nowadays and we're looking for top performers, who excel in their field. I'll take one or two 'cunts' in the squad, who perform at a ridiculously high level (and get us the results), if the rest of the team balance it out with workrate and energy.

 

We have a bit of a cunt in Lukaku but that cunt is our cunt, and he's scoring goals. I wouldn't mind a cunt of a Goalkeeper and defender too if they're some of the best in world in their position and available? Secondly, you know what, they may even help fire the lads up to actually compete against the top teams?

 

I fucking hate Harry Kane but have to give him credit where it's due, he's not the joke of a footballer I used to watch for the England youth sides. He's improved his all round game and doesn't just "smack it" like he used to, fall over or run around like a headless chicken (as much). He's a dick but you'd have him in your team. Dele Alli, absolute reprobate but most teams would take him. Lallana is an absolute snide but again, on recent performances, most teams would take him too.

 

There aren't many "nice" players out there that perform at the highest level and when they do, they're already at one of the CL teams or too loyal to move.

 

Michael Keane is probably the best example of the type of player I 'think' you'd like and is a realistic target for us. He comes across humble, fully committed, he's already a top player and has the potential to go even further. Goretzka would be another, we'll probably lose out on him but he's someone i've wanted at Everton for a long long time and true 'captain' material - issue is, 2 good seasons with us (if it happened) and he'd be off to another top club for sure. After that, i'm struggling mate.

 

Lukaku has many flaws. Is he overly criticized? All the time and more than he should in some cases. Is he defended beyond blame, yeah, sometimes even I can't read some of the posts jumping in to defend him.

 

But mark my words, when Lukaku leaves we WILL struggle for goals. With the squad we have now, we don't have anyone to score anywhere near enough to truely compete in Europe (Vardy is REALLY struggling in Europe). Will we move on? Yeah, of course we will. I have enough faith in Koeman and Walsh (for the time being) to believe they will find a suitable replacement (or 2) for Lukaku.

 

Just be careful what you wish for though because it won't be just you that Lukaku's potential departure that could bite us in the ass. This could be the catalyst for a few other departures (Ross, Mirallas) who feel like we might not match the ambition we say we have.

 

BEFORE ANYONE ACCUSES OF BAITING AN INDIVIDUAL - Read the post again. It's as balanced as any post in this thread and quite clearly NOT baiting.

[Matt]

If you want to discuss why I don't consider jags, Williams, Robles or stek as being our player of the year then maybe we can involve them in this.... but as with all criticism (or non eulogising) of Rom it seems that his team mates need to take accountability.

 

Funny... When it comes to praising Rom team mates aren't even mentioned (even though he gets the vast majority of any forward played passes aimed at him)... but when he's criticised his team mates get brought up.

 

I was asked if lukaku was my player of the year and I said no because he disappears in big games when we need him to do a job that is a bit more demanding of him than waiting for us to provide him with chances to convert.

 

That opinion was formed well before this season- seen nothing to change that either.

 

Big players change big games.... He doesn't. He's had 25+ big games for us and I can count on one hand the ones where he stood out and did a good job (not by goals) by his input and attitude. Two games against man city (one he didn't score in but bullied mangala) the Chelsea fa cup game, the Anfield derby from a year or so ago where he had a kick off with sakho.

 

Other than that my overriding memory of him will be a striker who goes through the motions in the big games waiting for something to happen.

But you were pointing out that it's Roms job (not in my opinion, but hey ho) to close the likes of Luis down to prevent attacks after I pointed out the entire team was asleep in that 5-0 drubbing, but no mention of the 10 other players behind him. That's what I'm confused by.

 

I won't argue on the definition as we've got very different interpretations of the phrase, with both arguments have merits and flaws. But the idea of top-strikers turning up confuses me. Pretty sure you'll talk about "helping out the team" rather than concentrating on goals, but for me goals are what the striker is there for and most important (as that's how games are won). Plus, it's actually fact based, so easier to debate. I'm not dismissing the importance of workrate, it's just extremely difficult to have a fact based discussion.

 

Examples, using Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Liverpool & Arsenal as "big teams" (not Leicester because they've been shit most of the season):

 

Costa (who had his head turned and being a bigger prick than usual after January) - 17 goals in 30 games, 5 assists

1 vs Liverpool

1 vs Man City

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above. Incidentally, runs on average covers 9km, 3rd lowest at Chelsea with only Terry and Courtois moving less.

 

Ibra - 17 goals in 28 games, 5 assists

1 vs Man City

1 vs Liverpool

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above. 9km covered on average per game, 4th lowest at United with only De Gea, Jones and Bailly covering less.

 

Aguero - 17 goals in 26 games, no assists. 10km covered on average per game, can't find the team stats

1 vs Liverpool

1 vs Chelsea

1 vs Arsenal

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above.

 

Kane - 20 goals in 24 games, 5 assists

1 vs Arsenal

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above. 10.7km covered on average per game. Very impressive.

 

Sanchez - 19 goals in 31 games, 10 assists

1 vs Chelsea

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above. Runs on average covers 9.5km, 5th lowest at Arsenal

 

Rom - 24 goals in 32 games, 6 assists

1 vs Man City away (and what a goal)

1 vs Man City home

1 vs Spurs

 

All the rest against other teams not mentioned above. Just under 9km covered per game, can't find a comparison against the rest of the team but I'm sure he'll be down near the bottom too.

 

I found the article for Lukaku and Kane was a very interesting and accurate read too:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/04/romelu-lukaku-harry-kane-everton-tottenham-hotspur

 

I understand why you don't see him as player of the season, I think he was 3rd for me after Gana and Coleman on the OS vote. But he has improved massively, which is what I prefer to celebrate and compared to other "top strikers" his records are equal to if not better than everyone I mentioned above except Kane. Regardless, the fact we're talking about him in the same company as those mentioned should be something to enjoy.

[Shukes]

Its Goals to shots "on target". It doesn't say how many shots he's had or chances that have been created. He's got a 64% shot on target ratio. Kane has 65%, mane 63%, firminho 65%, hazard 61%, king 61%, deeney 58%.

 

He has had 11 more attempts on goal than Kane which equates to 7 more shots on target which equates to 4 more goals.

 

To say he's not had service takes the piss... after all it's the number one excuse you use when he doesn't score so you are saying that his Goals are all down to him and his individual flair? Bollocks

Are those stats fact?

Surely they can't be.....because Rom doesn't get any service playing for Everton. We're lucky to have him don't you know.

 

Not like that lucky bugger Kane at Spurs.... he must have a 30% conversion rate as Spurs create so so many chances!

 

So those stats can't be real.

[Shukes]

Naismith a nice guy?

 

Always thought he was one of the most hated players on the pitch. Always a thorn in the opposition and got in everyone's faces.

Hard worker yes....nice guy... not a chance.

[Shukes]

Can't wait for him to go. So much cherry picking in this thread. Ruining our fans.

 

The way I see it..... it's doesn't matter if Haf wants him to go....I honestly don't think Rom has a clue who he is, would be shocked if he even read this forum.

HE wants to go by all accounts.

 

We need to be looking forward without him. No point in wandering about next year if he isn't going to be here.

If he stays....then fucking great!

 

If not then we move on. I do t think we will get relegated or finish 11th just because Rom goes. Ffs we finished 11th twice with him. This season is down to Ross, Gana, Schneds and the rest....just as much as Rom.

Just like Roms season is down to the rest of the team just as much as himself.

 

We should get back to being Everton fans and supporting our team rather than being Lukaku fans. Foootball has never been about one player and it never will be.

Same with Ross and the rest.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Shukes

[Lowensda]

Naismith a nice guy?

 

Always thought he was one of the most hated players on the pitch. Always a thorn in the opposition and got in everyone's faces.

Hard worker yes....nice guy... not a chance.

 

Shukes, is that all you could take from my post?

 

"Nice guy" is probably the wrong term, lets say he was more of a 'Teachers Pet'. Did what he was told, when he was told and always gave 100%. You're right, he was a snide on the pitch. Still didn't score many though.