Apostolos Vellios

[marcus jones]

Watch it Sunny Jim!

[Louis]

Yeh, I banned the user and deleted the posts.. I didn't think they were suitable..

[Lowensda]

What did that guy say?

[SimonButtle]

What did that guy say?

just a bunch of random nazi/kill jew type of stuff

[BlueTiggaOli]

There should be an Everton forum for idiots like that, so when they start being dick..y bows ban em and send em straight to that forum

[Matt]

There should be an Everton forum for idiots like that, so when they start being dick..y bows ban em and send em straight to that forum

Already exists:

http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/

[Lowensda]

[SimonButtle]

Already exists:

http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/

sorry Matt, i thought it was this: http://www.theblueunion.com

[Matt]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2011/11/29/vellios-could-gatecrash-euros

[flaminfox]

I honestly didn't think he did that bad when he started... The problem was that he was told to stay up but then he got no support and became isolated, when he had the ball he did well enough.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think he proved again on Saturday, quite categorically, that he is not yet ready to be starting games

[Lowensda]

I think he proved again on Saturday, quite categorically, that he is not yet ready to be starting games

 

But certainly wasn't helped. ANyone with the lack of service we provided would have struggled to play in the role given to him on Sunday.

 

Woodgate - Seasoned proffesional, tall, trong and can read the game.

Shawcross - Lumbering yet promising defender who's all round attributes hold him up as a decent defender.

 

Vellios - Young kid, full of potential, given no service or support and asked to deal foremostly with the two above, as well as lead the line and be responsible for scoring.

 

Dunc, think you're being a bit harsh on the lad. I agree it'll be a while before Vellios is really really ready, but he's better than other options that we have. Saha's been nothing less than woeful of late and he's had the same service. I know your feelings about Saha, and if he can't do it, then how can the kid be expected to?

 

Vellios could potentially thrive given the support (or a partner (who ironically could be saha *mentioned in other post*)).

 

So he's not ready ready, but he'll never improve if we don't play him with someone who is compatible with him.

Edited December 6, 2011 by tenaciousj

[Hafnia]

Moyes has come out and said he's not ready to start games... Nonsense! He needs to accept that Cahill no longer should be starting games and look to find a striker that can work with tolis.

 

Why does moyes need to complicate forwards?! If he can play he can play.

 

Shane long or ba would have been ideal, not gonna get them.

[SimonButtle]

Moyes has come out and said he's not ready to start games... Nonsense! He needs to accept that Cahill no longer should be starting games and look to find a striker that can work with tolis.

 

Why does moyes need to complicate forwards?! If he can play he can play.

 

Shane long or ba would have been ideal, not gonna get them.

nice way to boost the lads confidence there Davie, tell him he is not good enough to start in a team that has no strikers, he is our top scorer ffs

[adziom]

You can't blame Vellios for not being able to impact the game on Sunday. Cahill didn't, Saha wouldn't have if he was on the pitch... It doesn't mean they aren't ready to start games, clearly. However, it is asking a lot of Vellios to lead a 4-5-1 in the Premiership at his age, particularly with such dreadful service. Let's give Stracqua a start and put Vellios on in the second half to do what he's done a handful of times already and nab a goal.

[Hafnia]

“Starting the game was a big ask, it was maybe better suited to Louis where you might get a little bit of intelligence in being able to come off players.

“We lacked that bit of creativity which he can give us.”

 

 

Read more: http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2011/12/moyes-tolis-not-suited-to-starting-games/#ixzz1fkp1tmel

 

 

So in other words David, the Louis Saha we see dropping deep is because that is what you want him to do??? Interesting, I tell you what, why not try Barkley being your creative player? rather than asking your most advanced front player and finisher to do it? Cahill couldn't pick a pass, roll a player or shoot from 20 yards so why do you insist on playing him?

 

Intelligence? Stating that a young player who needs all the confidence he can get isn't good enough to start because he lacks that intelligence is plain stupid.

 

The man is starting to scare me. Has he got it in for the younger players? Does he feel the need to over analyse them to justify his position? I'm starting to get that impression. Just send them out there and stop trying to complicate the game!

 

Interesting that when asked of Wenger, Arteta said the following:

 

Players aren’t weighed down with 40 different instructions. Wenger gives a player six or seven clear ideas and that’s it, in 20 minutes you know what you’re doing. If I try and replace Cesc, that’s where it will go wrong. I’ve been here weeks, he was at Arsenal for eight years, it would be impossible for me to replace him in that sense

 

Was Moyes a manager that gave him 40 different instructions??? It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[Lowensda]

I'm getting more and more worried. Genuinely. I'm not normally on the Moyes out bandwagon because I think it's the easiest option which may have the most daming effects if it went tits up but more and more I wonder how another manager would address/use our players (that we currently have).

 

Would we be better than 'X' if we had a manager who could let our players, 'play'? Possibly, but we'll never know.

 

Moyes is stubborn, no question, someone needs to shake him up a bit.

 

That Arteta quote can most definitely be read in the way that you summarised Haf.

 

But that quote from Moyes!? Seriously, what's up with him? Fucking rims his older favourites and completely demoralises his youngsters....why should they play for him? He's sounding more and more a cock.

[StevO]

im not mad at him, just disappointed.

[Lowensda]

im not mad at him, just disappointed.

Which is so much worse...hated that as a kid!

[Bill]

We will finish in 7th or 8th place behind the clubs who have spent a fortune to get there, there is no disgrace in finishing in the top half these days when most clubs have had a large amount of investment.

 

We cant expect to finish above those sides now, but our time will come.

 

man city

man utd,

chelsea,

arsenal,

tottenham,

redshite

 

Everton.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Bill

[Avinalaff]

Moyes: Tolis not suited to starting games

 

DECEMBER 6, 2011 0 COMMENTS

 

David Moyes has said that he feels Apostolos Vellios was not ready to start the game against Stoke.

An injury to Louis Saha pushed Vellios to the top of the pecking order, although many Everton fans have been calling for Vellios to start games regardless of Saha’s fitness. Moyes, however, says that the Blues missed the creative edge that Saha can provide.

“We had an injury to Saha so we gave him a go and he is doing okay,” said Moyes.

“Starting the game was a big ask, it was maybe better suited to Louis where you might get a little bit of intelligence in being able to come off players.

“We lacked that bit of creativity which he can give us.”

 

 

 

 

Hardly an article to be getting worked up about.

 

Sometimes I wonder if fans react to a certain 'tone' that is set from an initial post, similar to who ever gets in first on the motm thread tends to influence others. It comes as no surprise that an article interpreted by Haf will be negative and anti Moyes. That's what Haf reads, but we all know his 'stance' is anti Moyes, so his views are generally extreme. If you look for things you'll find them. Are we now to hold Moyes to every word he says? Is he going to end up like a prisoner, scared to open his mouth, in case the 'Moyes Out !' brigade jump down his throat?

 

If Moyes managed Spurs, and we played negative football, I could agree with Haf on many things, as he is clearly intelligent even if his negativity gets on my tits, but Moyes manages Everton, and the difference between the 2 sides is for all to see.

 

Fans say it is unfair to expoect Vellios to succeed against Stoke on one hand, yet call for him to lead the team on the other.

 

If he is no good against Stoke, then he is clearly not the finished article, and that is 'clearly' why Moyes has been using him sparingly, but unfortunately some fans think they know better than Moyes.

 

You don't.

[Hafnia]

I hate referring to the amateur game but Moyes does bring out a lot of comparisons in the set up that I was involved with. There was a bloke in his 40's who had played for the club for years - never brilliant, just a jobber, he played everywhere but had no skill and was a defender really. He was like an assistant manager.

 

I was an attacking player - used to turn up after a night on the tiles but was as fit as a fiddle and would be in running for MOTM more often than not. It didn't sit well with this bloke, he would look for things to pull me up on - defending and donkey work mainly, He had his favourites who surprise surprise were not very good but 110% er's. If they miss controlled a ball you would hear "unlucky", if I got tackled by the last man it would be a groan.

 

Whenever young lads came in he would try and coach them needlessly, I mean these lads didn't need coaching, they would be playing 2 levels lower than what they should - what was he going to offer them??? It was his way of trying to 'develop' talent that he never possessed, he couldn't do it with the older lads, as they knew. It was his way of being 'a bit of a bitter bully'.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening, I can move on from that chapter in my life now!

[Avinalaff]

We will finish in 7th or 8th place behind the clubs who have spent a fortune to get there, there is no disgrace in finishing in the top half these days when most clubs have had a large amount of investment.

 

We cant expect to finish above those sides now, but our time will come.

 

man city

man utd,

chelsea,

arsenal,

tottenham,

redshite

 

Everton.

 

If only it were 'just' about not having the strength of the top teams Bill, but we forget that we don't have the squads of many of the teams below us either. If we finish 7th, it will be a miracle, yet nobody will appreciate Moyes' achievement, because he has given them hope and expectancy, and they don't even realise were they got it from.

[Avinalaff]

I hate referring to the amateur game but Moyes does bring out a lot of comparisons in the set up that I was involved with. There was a bloke in his 40's who had played for the club for years - never brilliant, just a jobber, he played everywhere but had no skill and was a defender really. He was like an assistant manager.

 

I was an attacking player - used to turn up after a night on the tiles but was as fit as a fiddle and would be in running for MOTM more often than not. It didn't sit well with this bloke, he would look for things to pull me up on - defending and donkey work mainly, He had his favourites who surprise surprise were not very good but 110% er's. If they miss controlled a ball you would hear "unlucky", if I got tackled by the last man it would be a groan.

 

Whenever young lads came in he would try and coach them needlessly, I mean these lads didn't need coaching, they would be playing 2 levels lower than what they should - what was he going to offer them??? It was his way of trying to 'develop' talent that he never possessed, he couldn't do it with the older lads, as they knew. It was his way of being 'a bit of a bitter bully'.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening, I can move on from that chapter in my life now!

 

Google 'Transference' Haf.

[StevO]

If he is no good against Stoke, then he is clearly not the finished article, and that is 'clearly' why Moyes has been using him sparingly, but unfortunately some fans think they know better than Moyes.

 

You don't.

 

lots of forwards struggle against stoke, cant consider them all that way.

[Hafnia]

Hardly an article to be getting worked up about.

 

Sometimes I wonder if fans react to a certain 'tone' that is set from an initial post, similar to who ever gets in first on the motm thread tends to influence others. It comes as no surprise that an article interpreted by Haf will be negative and anti Moyes. That's what Haf reads, but we all know his 'stance' is anti Moyes, so his views are generally extreme. If you look for things you'll find them. Are we now to hold Moyes to every word he says? Is he going to end up like a prisoner, scared to open his mouth, in case the 'Moyes Out !' brigade jump down his throat?

 

If Moyes managed Spurs, and we played negative football, I could agree with Haf on many things, as he is clearly intelligent even if his negativity gets on my tits, but Moyes manages Everton, and the difference between the 2 sides is for all to see.

 

Fans say it is unfair to expoect Vellios to succeed against Stoke on one hand, yet call for him to lead the team on the other.

 

If he is no good against Stoke, then he is clearly not the finished article, and that is 'clearly' why Moyes has been using him sparingly, but unfortunately some fans think they know better than Moyes.

 

You don't.

 

I wouldn't class myself as anti moyes. He has done so much good for us that it would be tough to take that 'stance'.

 

Based on recent times I feel that he is at a point in his career that means he needs to redevelop his philosophies. I used the word evolve, but that would be wrong, he needs to take a few steps backwards first. He is applying old tactics in a newer climate and it looks tired.

 

I would love for him to be the man who leads us to our next trophy, so we can all say "remember when we called for him to move on etc" - in the way Kendall did, I just can't see it unless he accepts that he needs to change and get the right help in. i.e an assistant that will challenge him, make him think, and not just be a nodding dog. Clough had it with Taylor.

[Hafnia]

Google 'Transference' Haf.

 

You could be right! All I wanted was old arry redknapp to say "orite me old mate, I see you were on the ale last night, don't worry you are in and I will not take you off, don't worry about defending you just get it and run at those old defenders"

[Avinalaff]

Did Moyes not reach top 4?

 

Did Moyes not reach Europa?

 

Did Moyes not get us to a Wembley final, and be 1-0 up in said final?

 

Did Moyes not get us to regular top 6?

 

Did Moyes not find players from nowhere and turn them into some of the best players in the league?

 

Did Moyes set a record for LMA awards?

 

Did Moyes not have us playing wonderful football in the 09-10 season and parts of 10-11?

 

 

 

Why would he need to change? You can't achieve all that and be bad at what you do.

 

What has changed is the size of the obstacles in Moyes' way. He has seen Chelsea invested in by Roman Abramovich, Man City by an even bigger investor. Arsenal moving to the Emirates, United taken over, Liverpool taken over, Spurs heavily invested in, Sunderland taken over, Blackburn, Birmingham, etc etc.

 

Basically the footballing world has moved on, while Everton have been saved only from falling over the cliff by the grip that is David Moyes' hand.

 

While he holds on tight, Everton have been biting his fingers, and tickling him, doing everything they can to fall, yet he has kept a tight hold, and continually battled to pull us back to safety. Now some of our fans are behind him untying his shoelaces, and putting stickers on his back with words he won't want to hear.

 

Why does he continue to love Everton? Why doesn't he tell us all to piss off, and let go, watching us fall into the abyss that is footballs fiery end, like the ring that escapes Gollum never to be seen again.

 

I might be romantic, but Moyes is a modern day martyr, and fans don't know how lucky they are to have him.

[Avinalaff]

You could be right! All I wanted was old arry redknapp to say "orite me old mate, I see you were on the ale last night, don't worry you are in and I will not take you off, don't worry about defending you just get it and run at those old defenders"

 

Been there mate, and paid the psychologist bills in the process too.

[StevO]

Why would he need to change? You can't achieve all that and be bad at what you do.

 

Basically the footballing world has moved on, while Everton have been saved only from falling over the cliff by the grip that is David Moyes' hand.

 

he needs to change because, as you said, the footballing world has moved on. tactics have changed all across football, but not at everton. he made these achievements when his tactics were current, they are now old hat.