marcopaulo Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't get this sudden image that jelavic is shite...he's not been at his best but still got like a goal in every 3 games...he hasn't been helped by fellaini being up there cos we aren't playing to his strengths...seems mental to me...the fickleness of fans still astounds me Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 the determination of Mr Moyes to continueplaying without an effective striker astounds me even more - how many games have we totally bossed this season but ended up drawing or even losing because of us failing to take our chances - nobody seems to be willing to answer my questions about Jelavic and how many more chances he deserves - which also astounds me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't get this sudden image that jelavic is shite...he's not been at his best but still got like a goal in every 3 games...he hasn't been helped by fellaini being up there cos we aren't playing to his strengths...seems mental to me...the fickleness of fans still astounds me Some like to sit back and hide away when we're doing well then come out with their marching band as soon as there's a negative. It must turn some folk on - sick bastards!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Luke Chadwick was given 1224 minutes (13.6 full matches) over 30 games as Fergie tried to find if he had the extra level in him to be a top footballer. It didn't work for Chadwick, but look at how instrumental the likes of Fletcher and Evans became. It would be nice if Moyes looked at his peers methods. Man.Utd consistently play more games than us season on season so it's easier to use more of their squad plus they haven't quality than us in general so can 'carry' youngsters. Thing is for every Chadwick there's a Pogba or Morrison... Pogba left as he didn't feel he was getting the game time at Man.Utd, I'd imagine some mancs would have moaned that Scholes and Carrick were playing ahead of him at the time! Cleverly had a couple of seasons out on loan as did Welbeck. Moyes is doing this with Barkley and would probably do it with Vellios if we had another senior striker on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't get this sudden image that jelavic is shite...he's not been at his best but still got like a goal in every 3 games...he hasn't been helped by fellaini being up there cos we aren't playing to his strengths...seems mental to me...the fickleness of fans still astounds me If a striker isn't in form he shouldn't be on the pitch. He'll come good again, but we might as well give someone else a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Man.Utd consistently play more games than us season on season so it's easier to use more of their squad plus they haven't quality than us in general so can 'carry' youngsters. Thing is for every Chadwick there's a Pogba or Morrison... Pogba left as he didn't feel he was getting the game time at Man.Utd, I'd imagine some mancs would have moaned that Scholes and Carrick were playing ahead of him at the time! Cleverly had a couple of seasons out on loan as did Welbeck. Moyes is doing this with Barkley and would probably do it with Vellios if we had another senior striker on board. I've never met a mank that would drop Paul Scholes. Pogba was a nob head off the pitch, that's the main reason he didn't make it on. Fergie tried to tame his ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 If a striker isn't in form he shouldn't be on the pitch. He'll come good again, but we might as well give someone else a chance. He can't come good again if he's not on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I've never met a mank that would drop Paul Scholes. You'd be surprised... there's some right clueless and fickle fools in this world!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 you can only compare Velios to Jelavic and Anichebe if he has had more or less the same opportunities - at this stage nobody (not even Mr Moyes mind you ) really knows how good or bad Velios will be after having had say 5 starts in an Everton line-up - so we are all speculating about his abillity - the abillity of and form of Jelavic and Anichebe this season however is well documented - can anybody tell me how many more chances \ games must Jelavic still be given to find his form ? the whole season ? two seasons ? till we are a mid table team again ? till Liverpool go past us on the table? - or till doomsday comes ? what must Velios do to get a few starts ? score goals ?, how many ? only allow Mr Moyes to train him ? be bought by another club after a good show in championship ? or when he is 25 ? or only when Mr Moyes ( and nobody else) thinks he is ready because he always knows best ? Why did we buy him if he was so useless and inexperienced ? even after 3 years - that was not very clever Mr moyes all you Jelavic supporters - put your money where your mouth is and answer these questions or i will regard you as Jelavic loyalists untill death do thee part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 If Jelavic was missing chance after chance then I'd understand people calling for him to be dropped. But the fact is we're not creating chances for him and he's spending too much time outside of the area in the hope of seeing the ball once every now and again. chicagoblue, GoodisonRoad and Bailey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzp7zy Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 A stint on loan would do Tolis the world of good - get him playing from the start in competitive matches and he should be able to boss Championship defenders around. One of the problems he has is that we prefer to play 1 up front and for that you need a goal poacher/clinical striker type of player e.g. Jela, Suarez, Ba, and Tolis isn't just that type of player. While we persist with the current tactic in the majority of games, he's unlikely to get many starts. More likely to come off the bench when we need to change things. Clearly, we need to bring in another striker to support Jela and allow Tolis to go on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 i don't get this sudden image that jelavic is shite...he's not been at his best but still got like a goal in every 3 games...he hasn't been helped by fellaini being up there cos we aren't playing to his strengths...seems mental to me...the fickleness of fans still astounds me It's not being fickle, it's reacting to new situations. Last season he scored and he got praised, with Fellaini up there as well so it's not like he's not performing now because of Fellaini. Now Jelavic has scored once in his last 11 league games. And it turns out he's really only a poacher who doesn't do much else, so when he's not scoring there's bound to be criticism of his game. I don't like the type of striker he is. Intrinsically, sure, he's a better finisher than Anichebe, but Vic offers more to the team than just goals imo and he's been the one who's getting on the score sheet as well of late. And I think Vellios is capable of doing the same, perhaps even more as I think he has a better touch. Also, could we all stop attacking other people over what they think is best for Everton. Calling people fickle or coming up with statements like this: The truth is that those who are patient, and believe what Moyes is doing to be correct, have the young lads best interests at heart, where as those fans that are itching to watch them seem to have their own interests at heart. (that's a quote from Avin in the Barkley thread) It sort of ruins the mood. Surely we can all talk about this without the petty little digs at each other. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I know that some times you can look at a player after a couple of minutes on the pitch and see if he is any use or not, it's just a gut feeling you get. I have never really rated Maggie, Naisy, and Vellios. Maybe I'm after the wow factor, I remember Viera's first game for Arsenal, Rooney for us, seeing Kluivert, Seedorf , Scholes, Giggs, Gazza etc play their first games and got the feeling that they were future stars, I just don't get the feeling with Tolis. Some are late developers like Osman but he had that little something about him, call it intuition. I really want him to do well, I do but I can not see him making it with us. I do hope I'm wrong though................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm sure of the 11 goals Jela got last season 7 were when partnered by Cahill and 4 when partnered by Felli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Interesting point - John ruddy, never given a chance, looks an England cap is in his grasp. Michael Johnson, man city lad, would he have realised his massive potential if we hadn't offloaded him for zilch? Baines, jags, all at our club as young lads. Fact is, it took games for people to realise their quality. I do not see the point in playing seniors who are tired, out of form etc if we have options. At least give them last 20 mins?!.... Bailey and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Interesting point - John ruddy, never given a chance, looks an England cap is in his grasp. Already has one . http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19238374 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 the tactics change when fellaini is up there..it gets lumped to him to control..jelavic makes the runs out wide etc(which annoys the fuck out of me) but if he is being told to do so how is that his fault? he scored last season cos he got the chances created for him...just like fellaini has this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Interesting point - John ruddy, never given a chance, looks an England cap is in his grasp. Michael Johnson, man city lad, would he have realised his massive potential if we hadn't offloaded him for zilch? Baines, jags, all at our club as young lads. Fact is, it took games for people to realise their quality. I do not see the point in playing seniors who are tired, out of form etc if we have options. At least give them last 20 mins?!.... would you have started ruddy every game then? or just brought a keeper on for the last 30 mins? he should have been loaned out...just like moyes is trying to do with some of the other youngsters..still gets slated for that..not sure what he's meant to do sometimes michael johnson was/is a clown..he was never gonna make it anywhere with his attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm sure of the 11 goals Jela got last season 7 were when partnered by Cahill and 4 when partnered by Felli. Nope. In his first 5 league games for Everton (Wigan, Liverpool and QPR as a sub, then Spurs and Arsenal as a starter) he played with Cahill and scored 1 goal. In the next game we played Swansea and Jelavic scored after Fellaini had replaced Cahill up front (Fellaini had been rested because he was closing in on a suspension and we were to play in the Cup). He then didn't score against WBA, then scored 2 against Norwich with Cahill alongside him, didn't score against Stoke. Then against Utd he scored 2 with Fellaini next to him (Cahill on the bench, Heitinga and Gibson in the middle), he scored two against Fulham in the next game in the same line-up. Didn't score against Wolves. Scored against Newcastle on the last day of the season with Fellaini next to him. That's 3 goals with Cahill, 6 with Fellaini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 the tactics change when fellaini is up there..it gets lumped to him to control..jelavic makes the runs out wide etc(which annoys the fuck out of me) but if he is being told to do so how is that his fault? he scored last season cos he got the chances created for him...just like fellaini has this season We also went long a lot before Fellaini played there. I'm not the only one who remembers us hoofing it to Cahill am I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 yeah but cahill didn't win it as much so we actually tried to play it around too..the fact that fellaini is so successful at it doesn't prevent us doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 last i'm gonna say on jelavic cos it's goin off topic! i just hope moyes doesn't try and change what he does like he did with saha and the yak..it would be such a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 we should play our best striker behind Jelavic so he can poach the scraps in the box - but i would prefer Anichebe and\or Velios up front at this stage - we score far too few goals from distance - i will only play Jelavic in games where we know we are going to boss and where there will be a lot of scraps lying around in the box to flick in - a single striker must be good on the ball and be a striker like Michu , Suarez , Van Persie etc and not a poacher like Jelavic - Jelavic had 5 shots at goal on Saturday but of those not a single one was on goal nevermind in goal - not good enough in my books as a main striker in the PL - 1 goal in 11 PL appearances for a striker is a fail in my books - how can Velios be worse ? 0 goals in 11 outings ? - if it is not his fault making runs out wide - who's fault is it then marcopolo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 would you have started ruddy every game then? or just brought a keeper on for the last 30 mins? he should have been loaned out...just like moyes is trying to do with some of the other youngsters..still gets slated for that..not sure what he's meant to do sometimes michael johnson was/is a clown..he was never gonna make it anywhere with his attitude I do believe we had worthington cup matches - it's not like moyes hasn't given mucha chances - don't know why. Michael Johnson wasn't and isn't a clown. The lad took his injuries in a bad way and was treated for mental health issues. I don't think city are the best club for looking after their players. Look at paul lake, Jamie Tandy. Michael Johnson had bundles of talent and till his injury problems was an England star in the making. There needs to be a far better support network for young players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 That's 3 goals with Cahill, 6 with Fellaini. 5 with Cahill, 6 with Felli just been on OS past games and worked it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) If Jelavic isn't suited to playing the lone striker role because he's just a poacher then why the fuck did we buy him?! You don't buy a player because of what he's good at and then ask them to be a different fucking player. Jelavic is a poacher so play to his bastard strengths. You don't ask him to run round like a headless bastard chicken, you tell him to stay in around the penalty area so he's there to stick the ball in the back of the net. He can't do that if he's standing about out wide. It's up to our midfield to set him up, they are our creative outfit, not Jelavic. He's there to finish off their craft. If you want a striker that will run round all day and not score lets go and but Kevin fucking Doyle. Then you'll complain that there's no one in the box finishing our chances too like people did with AJ. And I'll laugh my fucking head off because you wanted a headless chicken and got one. I'm pissed off now. That's my last on this. Edited January 17, 2013 by Romey 1878 Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 If Jelavic isn't suited to playing the lone striker role because he's just a poacher then why the fuck did we buy him?! You don't buy a player because of what he's good at and then ask them to be a different fucking player. Jelavic is a poacher so play to his bastard strengths. You don't ask him to run round like a headless bastard chicken, you tell him to stay in around the penalty area so he's there to stick the ball in the back of the net. He can't do that if he's standing about out wide. It's up to our midfield to set him up, they are our creative outfit, not Jelavic. He's there to finish off their craft. If you want a striker that will run round all day and not score lets go and but Kevin fucking Doyle. Then you'll complain that there's no one in the box finishing our chances too like people did with AJ. And I'll laugh my fucking head off because you wanted a headless chicken and got one. I'm pissed off now. That's my last on this. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 If Jelavic isn't suited to playing the lone striker role because he's just a poacher then why the fuck did we buy him?! You don't buy a player because of what he's good at and then ask them to be a different fucking player. Jelavic is a poacher so play to his bastard strengths. You don't ask him to run round like a headless bastard chicken, you tell him to stay in around the penalty area so he's there to stick the ball in the back of the net. He can't do that if he's standing about out wide. It's up to our midfield to set him up, they are our creative outfit, not Jelavic. He's there to finish off their craft. If you want a striker that will run round all day and not score lets go and but Kevin fucking Doyle. Then you'll complain that there's no one in the box finishing our chances too like people did with AJ. And I'll laugh my fucking head off because you wanted a headless chicken and got one. I'm pissed off now. That's my last on this. No one wants a headless chicken that doesn't score. I want someone who can hold the ball up and score. Or we play Jelavic with someone who can play with his back to goal, but no one seems to want to do that anymore either as it's detrimental to Jelavic for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Romey who is asking Jelavic to be a different player? - let us sort out the problem then - for every Evertonians sake for Pete's sake - to be able to treat the problem you have to identify the cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 It's not being fickle, it's reacting to new situations. Last season he scored and he got praised, with Fellaini up there as well so it's not like he's not performing now because of Fellaini. Now Jelavic has scored once in his last 11 league games. And it turns out he's really only a poacher who doesn't do much else, so when he's not scoring there's bound to be criticism of his game. I don't like the type of striker he is. Intrinsically, sure, he's a better finisher than Anichebe, but Vic offers more to the team than just goals imo and he's been the one who's getting on the score sheet as well of late. And I think Vellios is capable of doing the same, perhaps even more as I think he has a better touch. Also, could we all stop attacking other people over what they think is best for Everton. Calling people fickle or coming up with statements like this: (that's a quote from Avin in the Barkley thread) It sort of ruins the mood. Surely we can all talk about this without the petty little digs at each other. Don't part quote folk out of context Pete. There seems to be a theory that if somebody thinks Barkley isn't ready, then they're 'anti Barkley' or if Duffy isn't ready they're 'anti Duffy'. The truth is that those who are patient, and believe what Moyes is doing to be correct, have the young lads best interests at heart, where as those fans that are itching to watch them seem to have their own interests at heart. Footballers reach their prime around the mid 20's mark. That's quite a window for both players to develop. We're not a Championship side. We're one of the best teams around, and only the manager and his team can make decisions with any genuine knowledge. I have to agree with Dunc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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