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Apostolos Vellios


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How does the context change that statement? I must be missing the nuances. (Also, it isn't pete0 wink.png)

 

Seems like quite a generalization without any argumentation presented as "the truth" to me.

 

Just quote properly Billy. dry.png

 

Might not have been my finest sentence, but I knew what I meant and it was offered with good intentions. shaking fist.png

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There's been sod all wrong with the delivery into the box, Jelly is there, Felli, Peanut and various other players on the edge of the box also, so if the ball is coming into the box then what's the problem? No short passes of 5-10 yards for him to run on to to hit first time, he needs to be facing goal not away from it. Is he getting into the box to early maybe and so easily being marked? If that is the case do we need to play a more faster paced counter attacking ploy where the ball is put in front of him?

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Im with this. Jelavic for me is a top class striker going through a rough patch. I would normally say we should drop players like this but Jelavic is still working hard and doing what he always has done. His head hasnt dropped once. The only time he has played crap is when the we have played crap as a team and generally hoofed it up to him. He is a striker that wants the ball on the deck, running towards goal with plenty of support. We simply havent done that enough recently.

 

i don't get this sudden image that jelavic is shite...he's not been at his best but still got like a goal in every 3 games...he hasn't been helped by fellaini being up there cos we aren't playing to his strengths...seems mental to me...the fickleness of fans still astounds me

 

Don't think it's per se Felli's presence up there, it's the kind of deliver we've been putting into the box. Having Felli as a target or back to goal striker should work for the team. Lobbing in crosses does not work for Jelavic though.

 

If Jelavic was missing chance after chance then I'd understand people calling for him to be dropped. But the fact is we're not creating chances for him and he's spending too much time outside of the area in the hope of seeing the ball once every now and again.

 

Agree. Look at how we scores. Balls into the box on the deck for a one time finish. That's his bread and butter. Even better if they're being cut back from the by-line. For all Baines' excellent deliveries, they're not what Jelly thrives on. The crosses, floated or more targeted, are much better for Vellios, Anichebe or Felli. However, Jelly is so much of a better finisher that we really should be focusing on getting the service to him that he needs to score, not simply trying to create "chances" for mediocre strikers.

 

There's been sod all wrong with the delivery into the box, Jelly is there, Felli, Peanut and various other players on the edge of the box also, so if the ball is coming into the box then what's the problem? No short passes of 5-10 yards for him to run on to to hit first time, he needs to be facing goal not away from it. Is he getting into the box to early maybe and so easily being marked? If that is the case do we need to play a more faster paced counter attacking ploy where the ball is put in front of him?

 

Speed on counter attack would help to an extent, maybe, but Jelly is not fast. He's also not terribly clever with the offside trap. I really don't see him as a 'shoulder of the last defender' kind of striker, but whenever we look to release him it tends to be in that situation. What we need is Baines/Pienaar or Coleman/Mirallas/shudder Nais to get down the outside and near the box to play crisp passes into Jelavic. We haven't done that b/c we've run so much of our play through Fellaini. Just look at the statistical analyses for where Jelavic gets his touches. Way too many of them are outside the box and in the channels.

 

All that said, I agree that Vellios needs some more game time. If we're going to keep playing crosses into the box, and we will since Baines is great at that, then we need the big aerial threats to be up there, and not playing on the wing.

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If we hoof it to Fellaini, he usually brings the ball under control and passes it out wide or gives a short pass back to one of the midfielders who'll play it out wide. I'm pretty sure we're still one of the teams that play through the wings most. Especially through the left. Fellaini's presence is not the reason for Jelavic's struggles. Perhaps it's more because Naismith hasn't got to the byline all season on the right.

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If we hoof it to Fellaini, he usually brings the ball under control and passes it out wide or gives a short pass back to one of the midfielders who'll play it out wide. I'm pretty sure we're still one of the teams that play through the wings most. Especially through the left. Fellaini's presence is not the reason for Jelavic's struggles. Perhaps it's more because Naismith hasn't got to the byline all season on the right.

 

problem is it seems half the time(especially when mirallas doesn't play) jelavic is the one who is drifting out for the ball to be played to him

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If we hoof it to Fellaini, he usually brings the ball under control and passes it out wide or gives a short pass back to one of the midfielders who'll play it out wide. I'm pretty sure we're still one of the teams that play through the wings most. Especially through the left. Fellaini's presence is not the reason for Jelavic's struggles. Perhaps it's more because Naismith hasn't got to the byline all season on the right.

 

I think it is more to do with the delivery into Jelavic in general. Firstly even with Felli up top, because of the awful aimless hoofing we have a lot of the time it goes to Jelavic (or somewhere near him) and he doesnt win it as often as he maybe should do. So while I dont think the issue isnt with Felli, the issue is with when the ball doesnt get to Felli! It might be interesting to work out whether his better performances come with Heitinga and Gibson in the team who I think are key to our passing accuracy.

 

Secondly our final ball in recent weeks has been more dismal than normal. Pienaar, Neville and Osman especially seem to have a reluctance to thread him in on goal, or they do it too late and he is offside. Jelavic is a poacher who needs to be in the box and he is always making clever runs, always offering for a pass. We simply dont find him enough IMO and give him teh service he needs. Vic could probably do a better job for the team game at the moment, but if we are playing well then Jelavic is by far the better striker.

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Rumoured to be going on loan to Sheffield Wednesday.

 

We'd have to bring a striker in to cover that you'd think.

No, because we cannot afford a player to improve on him and who would actually play ahead of Jela, Naismith or Vic? Id rather have McAleny called up than bring in another bench warmer.
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No, because we cannot afford a player to improve on him and who would actually play ahead of Jela, Naismith or Vic? Id rather have McAleny called up than bring in another bench warmer.

We have money for loans, im sure we can find a non-youth loan striker available? as for the others Jelavic couldn't score an open goal at the moment, Naismith shouldn't be near the bench, let alone the team. Vic well he's just Vic, he looks like he might score a hat-trick one week, the next week he looks like Moyes has taken his Smarties from him. We have to try and bring someone in, we simply cannot operate with such a small squad, forget europe if we don't imo.
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We have money for loans, im sure we can find a non-youth loan striker available? as for the others Jelavic couldn't score an open goal at the moment, Naismith shouldn't be near the bench, let alone the team. Vic well he's just Vic, he looks like he might score a hat-trick one week, the next week he looks like Moyes has taken his Smarties from him. We have to try and bring someone in, we simply cannot operate with such a small squad, forget europe if we don't imo.

why send a kid on loan then spend money on loans? I cant think of a single senior striker that we could bring in....

 

Rest is a nice explanation of our current situation mate, made me smile :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd be all for it, Vellios isn't going to get playing time here (although I wish he would) so I'd rather he got it elsewhere in a loan period so that he has a better chance next season of getting games. I just hope that we don't let him go because I really think he could be something special.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The thing that annoys me about Vellios is you can see how good he is yet he's never played. I love the commitment Jelavic puts in but so does Vellios every time that he comes onto the field. Football is harsh business and poor performances should be punished, if you're not scoring goals which Jelavic isn't then he should be replaced with someone better.

 

Last season Vellios scored a goal every 86 minutes which shows what he can do from the bench. The lad needs to be played before someone realises just how good he is and takes him off us next season for free.

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I actually haven't seen enough from him to suggest that he should be in the starting 11. He is obviously talented, no doubt about that, but good enough to put Jelavic on the bench? I dont think so. Look at the movement from Jelavic. He is on his way back. Just needs that first goal.

 

I do however feel that he should be on the bench and perhaps get 10-15 minutes per game. Let us have a proper look at him before we can judge him.

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When will Velios be good enough or rather old enough for Mr Moyes to play him ?

only when they eventually sell Jelavic - which is terribly short sighted -

maybe the two of them played together was the solution to our problems up front -

but we will never know as Mr Moyes does not experiment with youngsters -

if i was Velios i would certainly look for opportunities to further my carreer -

at Everton he like many other young players go stale because of lack of pressure -

what creates diamonds ? pressure not bench warming

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When will Velios be good enough or rather old enough for Mr Moyes to play him ?

only when they eventually sell Jelavic - which is terribly short sighted -

maybe the two of them played together was the solution to our problems up front -

but we will never know as Mr Moyes does not experiment with youngsters -

if i was Velios i would certainly look for opportunities to further my carreer -

at Everton he like many other young players go stale because of lack of pressure -

what creates diamonds ? pressure not bench warming

 

I agree with this 100%. Playing well under pressure is one of the most valuable attributes a footballer can have.

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  • 5 months later...

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