Nikica Jelavic

[Sibdane]

I think it's too soon to give up on Jelavic. Get a creative player behind him who can feed him those first time shots. He's a poacher.

[mcirony]

I think it's too soon to give up on Jelavic. Get a creative player behind him who can feed him those first time shots. He's a poacher.

He has had Osman trying to do that a bit this year to no avail. Maybe Barkley can be the man to do it!

 

It's easy to say he's not scoring because we aren't playing to his strengthes but HOW MANY has he missed?! He could easy be in double figures just from the absolute sitters he's missed, never mind any half chances he's cocked up. Blame cannot all be placed on team around him, he's fluffed his lines way too many times. The only way you get your confidence back is with goals and opportunities, he's had the opportunities but can't get the goals.

Edited April 29, 2013 by MoyesForPM

[Romey 1878]

He has had Osman trying to do that a bit this year to no avail. Maybe Barkley can be the man to do it!

 

 

How many through balls have you seen Osman play? I can't recall any.

[Hafnia]

He has had Osman trying to do that a bit this year to no avail. Maybe Barkley can be the man to do it!

 

It's easy to say he's not scoring because we aren't playing to his strengthes but HOW MANY has he missed?! He could easy be in double figures just from the absolute sitters he's missed, never mind any half chances he's cocked up. Blame cannot all be placed on team around him, he's fluffed his lines way too many times. The only way you get your confidence back is with goals and opportunities, he's had the opportunities but can't get the goals.

 

He's missed loads because his confidence is shot, his confidence is shot because for too many games he was getting scraps.

 

He plays off the shoulder of the centre halves and likes through balls, as Romey said - how many has he had? Barkley could be the man to provide that creativity.

[Matt]

 

He's missed loads because his confidence is shot, his confidence is shot because for too many games he was getting scraps.

 

He plays off the shoulder of the centre halves and likes through balls, as Romey said - how many has he had? Barkley could be the man to provide that creativity.

Ossie could do it too, if he stayed in an advanced position. I wouldnt mind seeing Pienaar in the middle doing that job either....

[Steve_E]

 

How many of his goals last season were from through balls? I agree that's something we've been sorely lacking all season, but it doesn't mean you can just blame all of Jelavic' shortcomings on that fact. He is rather slow, too slow to run the channels really. Despite his frame he can't play with his back to goal: he won't win possession on long balls and he can't keep it when he gets it played into his feet with a centre back covering him closely either as his first touch will more than likely let him down. He's a goal poacher in the box, not much more than that, and he hasn't even been doing that this season either.

[Matt]

 

How many of his goals last season were from through balls? I agree that's something we've been sorely lacking all season, but it doesn't mean you can just blame all of Jelavic' shortcomings on that fact. He is rather slow, too slow to run the channels really. Despite his frame he can't play with his back to goal: he won't win possession on long balls and he can't keep it when he gets it played into his feet with a centre back covering him closely either as his first touch will more than likely let him down. He's a goal poacher in the box, not much more than that, and he hasn't even been doing that this season either.

Fair point, but tweak the question to "how many were played to his feet" (which is kinda the same thing) and you see last year 90% were.

 

This year hes been out on the wings too much, not loitering in the box.

[Bailey]

Ossie could do it too, if he stayed in an advanced position. I wouldnt mind seeing Pienaar in the middle doing that job either....

Pienaar does have the vision to look for them forward balls unfortunately they barely ever get to their target!

 

I really do think Jelavic has got to start helping himself. There does seem to be a strikers curse with Moyes but he needs to start getting involved more. I have just had a look back at some of the goals he scored last season and there are generally two types of Jelavic goal. The first is where he peels off the back of the defender and pretty much never in front of them the second is where he peels off in the box for a cut back. Even in the clips I looked at he really does miss some sitters which is a surprise when you think back to how lethal he was (and how well he took some really difficult chances) but he needs to start making more of them runs and the rest of the team need to get their heads up and pick him out more.

 

I was dubious when he first came here but he is a top class striker and he just needs to get that confidence back. He needs to be ruthless when he gets even half a chance and just take it on. Forget if anyone else is in a better position, just get his head down and put his laces through it.

[Bailey]

Fair point, but tweak the question to "how many were played to his feet" (which is kinda the same thing) and you see last year 90% were.

 

This year hes been out on the wings too much, not loitering in the box.

I think it is maybe slightly different to that. How many balls were played into the space around him (ie not 50 yarders down the channels but to areas he could move into).

 

I would leave Vic up top against Liverpool and look to swap them come 70mins like we did against City. In the remaining games I would do it the other way. Start Jelavic and let him be the main man and once he has ran his arse off, get Vic in there to finish them off.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/everton-fc/everton-fc-news//tm_headline=west-ham-target-everton-striker-nikica-jelavic%26method=full%26objectid=33256761%26siteid=99623-name_page.html

[Hafnia]

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/sport/everton-fc/everton-fc-news//tm_headline=west-ham-target-everton-striker-nikica-jelavic%26method=full%26objectid=33256761%26siteid=99623-name_page.html

 

 

Swap him for Diame - he would allow us to sell Fellaini and use some of the £25m to buy a class striker - £10m to the bank, £15m to the kitty.

[Zoo]

Swap deal for Andy Carroll.

[mcirony]

 

 

How many through balls have you seen Osman play? I can't recall any.

What I meant by that is Osman SHOULD have been doing that, but to no avail. That's why I went on to say Barkely could be the man to do it.

 

I don't agree that he has been working off scraps, Baines has created more goal scoring opportunities than anyone in the league.

 

Yes his confidence is shot but he's been missing opportunites since the start of the season so it's not like there's been a sudden down turn. I think Fellaini playing higher up has affected him but at the same time, Jelavic scored a lot of his goals from crosses/passes from out wide, they weren't all through balls like people seem to think on here.

[Matt]

Pienaar does have the vision to look for them forward balls unfortunately they barely ever get to their target!

 

I really do think Jelavic has got to start helping himself. There does seem to be a strikers curse with Moyes but he needs to start getting involved more. I have just had a look back at some of the goals he scored last season and there are generally two types of Jelavic goal. The first is where he peels off the back of the defender and pretty much never in front of them the second is where he peels off in the box for a cut back. Even in the clips I looked at he really does miss some sitters which is a surprise when you think back to how lethal he was (and how well he took some really difficult chances) but he needs to start making more of them runs and the rest of the team need to get their heads up and pick him out more.

 

I was dubious when he first came here but he is a top class striker and he just needs to get that confidence back. He needs to be ruthless when he gets even half a chance and just take it on. Forget if anyone else is in a better position, just get his head down and put his laces through it.

I was dubious too. Then I got optimistic. Im worried that I got swayed by a 1/3 of a season of decent play and that my initial feelings were correct...

[Steve_E]

Pienaar does have the vision to look for them forward balls unfortunately they barely ever get to their target!

 

I really do think Jelavic has got to start helping himself. There does seem to be a strikers curse with Moyes but he needs to start getting involved more. I have just had a look back at some of the goals he scored last season and there are generally two types of Jelavic goal. The first is where he peels off the back of the defender and pretty much never in front of them the second is where he peels off in the box for a cut back. Even in the clips I looked at he really does miss some sitters which is a surprise when you think back to how lethal he was (and how well he took some really difficult chances) but he needs to start making more of them runs and the rest of the team need to get their heads up and pick him out more.

 

I was dubious when he first came here but he is a top class striker and he just needs to get that confidence back. He needs to be ruthless when he gets even half a chance and just take it on. Forget if anyone else is in a better position, just get his head down and put his laces through it.

 

To be honest, I don't think he is a top class striker. If he was, he'd be helping the team even when he isn't scoring goals. That's literally all he can do and he's even struggled at that for a full season now. The only similar striker at the top teams around Europe I can think of is Mario Gomez and he's got a better track record at a higher level and even he's become Mandzukic' backup for the most part.

[Dalziel Kane]

The player scored a few goals in the SPL and did well for the most part. It's like Disneyland up there. When they move to a tougher or more challenging league, don't expect great things. Made a (short lived) impact on his arrival in the Premier League. It wasn't to last. Ok, hasn't been a complete failure, still got amongst the goals here and there, and but was never able to replicate his proficiency north of the border, and maybe wasn't expected to. Not a top class striker. Fair enough, was quietly confident when we got the acquisition, as he had scored goals and made a name, but it never did really work out for him here, despite early promise

[Bailey]

To be honest, I don't think he is a top class striker. If he was, he'd be helping the team even when he isn't scoring goals. That's literally all he can do and he's even struggled at that for a full season now. The only similar striker at the top teams around Europe I can think of is Mario Gomez and he's got a better track record at a higher level and even he's become Mandzukic' backup for the most part.

Top class maybe a bit strong but I do think he has the ability to be one of the better strikers in the Premier League. He isnt a Tevez or RVP etc but IMO he can be the rung below them. Some of his finishing last year and for Rangers was ruthless, much like Torres' used to be I guess! I think that if you get his confidence up and give him a consistent level of service then he will score 10-15 league goals a season, every season.

 

My general worry is that pretty much every one of our better strikers has turned up, banged goals in for fun and then struggled until they looked a shell of the striker they used to be. Beattie, AJ, Yak, Saha, Cahill in some ways and now Jelavic. The only one to improve is Vic!

[Sibdane]

Top class maybe a bit strong but I do think he has the ability to be one of the better strikers in the Premier League. He isnt a Tevez or RVP etc but IMO he can be the rung below them. Some of his finishing last year and for Rangers was ruthless, much like Torres' used to be I guess! I think that if you get his confidence up and give him a consistent level of service then he will score 10-15 league goals a season, every season.

 

My general worry is that pretty much every one of our better strikers has turned up, banged goals in for fun and then struggled until they looked a shell of the striker they used to be. Beattie, AJ, Yak, Saha, Cahill in some ways and now Jelavic. The only one to improve is Vic!

To be fair, Vic couldn't get much worse. I wonder if Vic will ever hit 15-20 goals.

[Guest]

if we get a decent offer £9-10 mill id let him go. He doesnt do anything outstanding for me.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Top class maybe a bit strong but I do think he has the ability to be one of the better strikers in the Premier League. He isnt a Tevez or RVP etc but IMO he can be the rung below them. Some of his finishing last year and for Rangers was ruthless, much like Torres' used to be I guess! I think that if you get his confidence up and give him a consistent level of service then he will score 10-15 league goals a season, every season.

 

My general worry is that pretty much every one of our better strikers has turned up, banged goals in for fun and then struggled until they looked a shell of the striker they used to be. Beattie, AJ, Yak, Saha, Cahill in some ways and now Jelavic. The only one to improve is Vic!

 

 

Beattie's career was already on the slide before we signed him, he couldn't even get in the side at Southampton, the Yak has done exactly the same thing at every club he has been at. Moyes did well to even get Saha on the pitch the amount of times he did and Cahill had his best years in football under Moyes and did it over a number of years

 

AJ got no joy with Refs at Everton and penalties accounted for the vast majority of his goals at Palace so when they dried up he was always going to struggle. He also got most of his England caps as an Everton player so he didn't do too badly

[marcopaulo]

Top class maybe a bit strong but I do think he has the ability to be one of the better strikers in the Premier League. He isnt a Tevez or RVP etc but IMO he can be the rung below them. Some of his finishing last year and for Rangers was ruthless, much like Torres' used to be I guess! I think that if you get his confidence up and give him a consistent level of service then he will score 10-15 league goals a season, every season.

 

My general worry is that pretty much every one of our better strikers has turned up, banged goals in for fun and then struggled until they looked a shell of the striker they used to be. Beattie, AJ, Yak, Saha, Cahill in some ways and now Jelavic. The only one to improve is Vic!

 

marcus bent surely had by far the spell of his career at everton?

[Sibdane]

Beattie's career was already on the slide before we signed him, he couldn't even get in the side at Southampton, the Yak has done exactly the same thing at every club he has been at. Moyes did well to even get Saha on the pitch the amount of times he did and Cahill had his best years in football under Moyes and did it over a number of years

 

AJ got no joy with Refs at Everton and penalties accounted for the vast majority of his goals at Palace so when they dried up he was always going to struggle. He also got most of his England caps as an Everton player so he didn't do too badly

Then it sounds like Moyes has terrible judgment when it comes to purchasing forwards.

[StevO]

Nah, just terrible judgement in their second season when he asks lazy forwards to work hard.

[Matt]

Nah, just terrible judgement in their second season when he asks lazy forwards to work hard.

fair point Steve, but if I'm the manager and see players being lazy but scoring (which is their job) then push them to work and see the goals dry up, I would revert back to letting them be lazy to get the goals in. Then, end of the season, sell the lazy bastard for an inflated price and try again. Unless of course, the team accept the laziness in return for goals, in which case is keep the lazy striker.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Then it sounds like Moyes has terrible judgment when it comes to purchasing forwards

Or he just doesn't have the money to buy a quality one

[Hafnia]

Any top striker will tell you that they don't score goals by working 'hard', it's working smart.

 

Look at what the likes of Shearer and Lineker said about Torres when his form dipped - they said "he's trying too hard, he's getting the ball in the wrong areas"

 

Basically strikers need to put themselves in and around the business end when the final ball is to be played. Not being the ones who play the final ball!

 

That is my frustration with our play, far too many lumped balls bypassing the midfield to the strikers with their backs to goal. Shearer as an example dropped into the hole - held it up, released it to the winger and ran into the box to meet the cross - bang. Fowler and Owen (heyday) made the centre backs know that they needed to be on their toes as the weren't bothered about being involved in the build up - they were going to be on the end of the ball that the keeper will have to deal with. Too many of our strikers become 'targets' in their second season, spending hours chasing balls down the channels, pressing full backs etc.

[Hafnia]

Or he just doesn't have the money to buy a quality one

 

Michu, Benteke, Remy, Ba, all quality and within the £££ of what we have paid before. They are out there. It's a time old argument/criticism of moyes that he struggles to get consecutive seasons out of a striker. 11 years is long enough to get a gauge that this is not a coincidence. I'd love for it not to be true but i'm afraid that stats don't look good.

[StevO]

fair point Steve, but if I'm the manager and see players being lazy but scoring (which is their job) then push them to work and see the goals dry up, I would revert back to letting them be lazy to get the goals in. Then, end of the season, sell the lazy bastard for an inflated price and try again. Unless of course, the team accept the laziness in return for goals, in which case is keep the lazy striker.

 

I think some of the worlds best strikers have been lazy, well, i'm not sure lazy is the best way to put it. But I dont want to see a striker chasing a ball into the corner, i want him waiting in the middle.

Yak was a perfect example, when he was left to stand around the box he scored for fun. Then he started chasing balls down, waste of time.

[Sibdane]

I think some of the worlds best strikers have been lazy, well, i'm not sure lazy is the best way to put it. But I dont want to see a striker chasing a ball into the corner, i want him waiting in the middle.

Yak was a perfect example, when he was left to stand around the box he scored for fun. Then he started chasing balls down, waste of time.

Berbatov is the perfect example of a lazy striker who still gets the job done.

[Sibdane]

Michu, Benteke, Remy, Ba, all quality and within the £££ of what we have paid before. They are out there. It's a time old argument/criticism of moyes that he struggles to get consecutive seasons out of a striker. 11 years is long enough to get a gauge that this is not a coincidence. I'd love for it not to be true but i'm afraid that stats don't look good.

And THIS.