GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) The cup is different, and Leeds are a bogey side for us. Add together the fact they have an exellent manager in Warnock, and I expected a stronger team. Historically they're a huge club, so don't get the mid table argument really. Bolton are also mid table. The mentality of the players was what was different, not the cup. Of course Historically they are a big club, but at the moment their players are a mid-table championship team, they dont have the likes of Viduka, Kewell etc anymore so i dont get the "huge club" argument personally Edited September 25, 2012 by GoodisonRoad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 The mentality of the players was what was different, not the cup. Of course Historically they are a big club, but at the moment their players are a mid-table championship team, they dont have the likes of Viduka, Kewell anymore etc so i dont get the "huge club" argument personally Aww come on man, by that logic we've done naff all for 30 years so are shite. Leeds are one of the biggest clubs in the country, probably in the top 20, so the expectancy and pedigree is there. Fair play to them, they beat us. I think our best team would have won, but Moyes has to make a decision, and he made it. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. Good luck to Leeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 The mentality of the players was what was different, not the cup. Of course Historically they are a big club, but at the moment their players are a mid-table championship team, they dont have the likes of Viduka, Kewell etc anymore so i dont get the "huge club" argument personally Stadium, 'fans' (although seemed scarce tonight), history. People say Goodison is special for a night match, well the same can be said about Elland Road. Footballers are only human - things like this can affect performance and I agree the mentallity was the thing that lost the game tonight in part as basically they seemed to want it more but all the afore mentioned contributes to that mind-set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 bullshit statement..we aren't champs league contenders..we should be lookin to win this I'd rather finish one place higher in the league than win the League Cup. It becomes a burden if you are doing well after xmas. Prem teams shouldn't even participate in it, and the Euro spot should be designated to the league as it's the harder competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'd rather finish one place higher in the league than win the League Cup. It becomes a burden if you are doing well after xmas. Prem teams shouldn't even participate in it, and the Euro spot should be designated to the league as it's the harder competition. Only if that place puts us into the top 4, otherwise it's no contest I want the day out at Wembley watching us winning the cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 3 wins in 50 attempts at Leeds! What a shocking record! not too much of surprise when you look at it like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Aww come on man, by that logic we've done naff all for 30 years so are shite. Leeds are one of the biggest clubs in the country, probably in the top 20, so the expectancy and pedigree is there. Fair play to them, they beat us. I think our best team would have won, but Moyes has to make a decision, and he made it. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. Good luck to Leeds. c'mon your on the wind up here arent you? Dont really understand the we've done nothing for 30 years statement but, in the immortal words of D.K i will, "Let it Lie". How can you say the expectancy was there from Leeds? we had their own fans coming on here expecting it to be a cricket score!! I dont for one minute think we should have won the game, but i dont think the team selection was poor at all, i think it had the right amount of experienced players in it to see us through, but our big players in that team, mainly Fellaini and Heitinga were either absolutley awfull or just had the mentality of "we're gonna walk this". So you can blame moyes for putting across the wrong message, but his team selection was about spot on for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Only if that place puts us into the top 4, otherwise it's no contest I want the day out at Wembley watching us winning the cup. That's what the Fa Cup is for. The League Cup makes it less special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 3 wins in 50 attempts at Leeds! What a shocking record! not too much of surprise when you look at it like that I was at the last 1 - Rooney 0-1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 That's what the Fa Cup is for. The League Cup makes it less special. You wouldn't want to win the League Cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Stadium, 'fans' (although seemed scarce tonight), history. People say Goodison is special for a night match, well the same can be said about Elland Road. Footballers are only human - things like this can affect performance and I agree the mentallity was the thing that lost the game tonight in part as basically they seemed to want it more but all the afore mentioned contributes to that mind-set. Fans make a stadium in my eyes, and there is a hell of a lot of difference to when we played United on the opening day practically selling out, to Elland road on a Tuesday night with what roughly 20k leeds fans? and 5k of our own? when half the Leeds fans that turned up where expecting a defeat anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I was at the last 1 - Rooney 0-1! Barmby got a yellow for diving in that....nothing changes in football eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 That team we started with was more than good enough to put in a performance tonight but we didnt. We completely failed to control midfield and that is where it was won and lost. Unfortunately Brown & Tonge absolutely bossed whoever played in them positions purely because they wanted it more. We always struggle against teams that press us because we run out of ideas and so it happened again. I actually think Moyes went to use a plan B in this game and it highlight how inflexible we are. When we went back to plan A, we were better and controlled the ball. I dread what to think will happen if Felli got injured. He was shite tonight but we got a foothold when he went forward as he was the only one to control the ball. We really need to sort it out, we might have stuffed Swansea but they were the same problems that could have led to them scoring a few. We dont have a balance in midfield, and Fellaini is the difference between us keeping the ball or giving it away. If he cant get the ball down, we cant play. The two behind (irrelevant it seems to who actually plays there) just cant cope with aggressive closing down or teams that break forward. More teams will cotton on, especially lower down the league and we will start playing that garbage again. Players of note were Vic who put in a good shift, annoyed me a couple of times but worked hard and did alright with very little service. He was poor in the air again though. Pienaar did alright when he came on and at least got us ticking a little, which shows how important Osman/Gibson are to the way we play. The worst ones were Naismith because he was simply crap, Heitinga who pissed me off for that stamp and Ovieda who was very wasteful although showed glimpses of quality at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Fans make a stadium in my eyes, and there is a hell of a lot of difference to when we played United on the opening day practically selling out, to Elland road on a Tuesday night with what roughly 20k leeds fans? and 5k of our own? when half the Leeds fans that turned up where expecting a defeat anyway. "Leeds is a tough place to go!" you don't hear people say this about the Wigans and Leicesters... there's just some places you know you'll have a battle and Leeds is one - add to that Warnock then you're guarenteed. They've played Man.Utd, Arsenal and Spurs in cups in recent years - they beat united, think spurs had to go to replay and I think arsenal struggled too (although I can't remember this one so clearly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 c'mon your on the wind up here arent you? Dont really understand the we've done nothing for 30 years statement but, in the immortal words of D.K i will, "Let it Lie". How can you say the expectancy was there from Leeds? we had their own fans coming on here expecting it to be a cricket score!! I dont for one minute think we should have won the game, but i dont think the team selection was poor at all, i think it had the right amount of experienced players in it to see us through, but our big players in that team, mainly Fellaini and Heitinga were either absolutley awfull or just had the mentality of "we're gonna walk this". So you can blame moyes for putting across the wrong message, but his team selection was about spot on for me. If you discount Leeds because of a lack of recent success, then we have to look at our own recent successes, which makes it a null argument. Leeds fielded their best side tonight, or at least I expect they did. That side will be used to playing together. Our side was a patchwork of players with little first team experience. How many first team games have the following players had? Mucha Oviedo Coleman (at RB) Junior Gueye Mirallas Naismith Anichebe Only Heitinga, Distin, and Fellaini had regular first team experience, and even Heitinga and Distin aren't an ongoing partnership. I'm not sure how you feel it had the right amount of experienced players, but your opinion is fine with me, but in my opinion, we can't field that kind of side against a Championship side that will be up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Barmby got a yellow for diving in that....nothing changes in football eh ? To chorus' of Die-die Nicky-Nicky die! - awful song but the person who came up with it is a lyrical genius!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I didn't think my man crush, Heitinga, was THAT bad tonight . Certainly nowhere near as good as he was last season but I thought he was better than at the weekend. Why don't any of our defenders look good together this season? It's depressing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I didn't think my man crush, Heitinga, was THAT bad tonight . Certainly nowhere near as good as he was last season but I thought he was better than at the weekend. Why don't any of our defenders look good together this season? It's depressing . Too exposed in my opinion. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 "Leeds is a tough place to go!" you don't hear people say this about the Wigans and Leicesters... there's just some places you know you'll have a battle and Leeds is one - add to that Warnock then you're guarenteed. They've played Man.Utd, Arsenal and Spurs in cups in recent years - they beat united, think spurs had to go to replay and I think arsenal struggled too (although I can't remember this one so clearly). I know its a tough place to go, what i'm saying is that the team we had out was more than capable of beating them, if i remember rightly the likes of Utd, Arsenal etc always play significantly weaker teams, its not like we had 7-8 youngsters out there, we had one. We also had one of the most promising (even if he didnt show it tonight) midfielders in the league in Fellaini playing who looked like he couldnt be arsed and we also had a WC finalist in Heits who looked like he thought he was too good to even grace the presence of the Leeds players, it was the menatality of the players thinking they would dick leeds, not the fact that we were playing Leeds at Elland road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Too exposed in my opinion. They definitely had no protection tonight and looked like panicked little children. Distin was the panickiest and Heitinga didn't look like he wanted to put any sort of challenges in at all, which was bizarre to see from a defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I know its a tough place to go, what i'm saying is that the team we had out was more than capable of beating them, if i remember rightly the likes of Utd, Arsenal etc always play significantly weaker teams, its not like we had 7-8 youngsters out there, we had one. We also had one of the most promising (even if he didnt show it tonight) midfielders in the league in Fellaini playing who looked like he couldnt be arsed and we also had a WC finalist in Heits who looked like he thought he was too good to even grace the presence of the Leeds players, it was the menatality of the players thinking they would dick leeds, not the fact that we were playing Leeds at Elland road. That's where I don't fully agree - the elements played their part tonight making Elland Road and Leeds an uncomfortable place to play. I'd expect that team to smash them at GP but tonight with the weather and Leeds getting into us on their home patch, with their home fans, it made it a tough night, which then won out in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 If you discount Leeds because of a lack of recent success, then we have to look at our own recent successes, which makes it a null argument. Leeds fielded their best side tonight, or at least I expect they did. That side will be used to playing together. Our side was a patchwork of players with little first team experience. How many first team games have the following players had? Mucha Oviedo Coleman (at RB) Junior Gueye Mirallas Naismith Anichebe Only Heitinga, Distin, and Fellaini had regular first team experience, and even Heitinga and Distin aren't an ongoing partnership. I'm not sure how you feel it had the right amount of experienced players, but your opinion is fine with me, but in my opinion, we can't field that kind of side against a Championship side that will be up for it. I didnt "discount" Leeds because of recent success, i said it as it is. As they stand they are a mid-table Championship team, we are a top 6 premiership team with ambitions of pushing for the CL, we should be beating them, yes? I can also see you didnt watch the post match interview with Warnock as he was saying 2-3 of his players hadnt played yet this year and this was their first game back and a few injuries meant they had to play a couple of younger players as well, so it wasnt their best side and they wont be used to playing together. I can see where your coming from with our lack of first team appearances in the side tonight, but better players are better players, and given the lack of first team experience from the others, you would have thought our first team regulars would have stood up and performed, which they didnt.. mainly Heits and Felli, which brings me back to the point, the players mentality from the off was terrible, but the team on paper i wouldnt have argued with, and not many argued with it when it was first announced either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 That's where I don't fully agree - the elements played their part tonight making Elland Road and Leeds an uncomfortable place to play. I'd expect that team to smash them at GP but tonight with the weather and Leeds getting into us on their home patch, with their home fans, it made it a tough night, which then won out in the end. Each to their own i guess, but i dont know many international footballers who would go to a stadium that was barley half full and feel it was uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I didnt "discount" Leeds because of recent success, i said it as it is. As they stand they are a mid-table Championship team, we are a top 6 premiership team with ambitions of pushing for the CL, we should be beating them, yes? I can also see you didnt watch the post match interview with Warnock as he was saying 2-3 of his players hadnt played yet this year and this was their first game back and a few injuries meant they had to play a couple of younger players as well, so it wasnt their best side and they wont be used to playing together. I can see where your coming from with our lack of first team appearances in the side tonight, but better players are better players, and given the lack of first team experience from the others, you would have thought our first team regulars would have stood up and performed, which they didnt.. mainly Heits and Felli, which brings me back to the point, the players mentality from the off was terrible, but the team on paper i wouldnt have argued with, and not many argued with it when it was first announced either. I think we have a different opinion on the players chosen, but it's no biggy. Need to log off as the missus isn't too well, so chat another time matey. Have a good week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 To be fair we don't fully know how good many of players are... Mucha - been poor on previous showings. Coleman - we've not seen much of him at rb. Oviedo - full debut. Junior - debut. Naismith - not seen much yet. Gueye - we've only ever seen him in small doses. Mirallas - unlike Naismith he's shown enough in his short EFC career already. ...so maybe our back-up/ squad isn't good enough?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 You wouldn't want to win the League Cup? Not really. If we won it with our reserves fair enough. The Euro qualification and the trip to Wembley is appealing, but 6th in the league is more deserving of a Europa spot and as I've said above about Wembley. Also I'd hate Moyes to field a weakened team in the league if we got to the semi's of the League Cup, like he did last year in the FA Cup. Whereas I feel the FA Cup has the prestige to justify that kind of decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Each to their own i guess, but i dont know many international footballers who would go to a stadium that was barley half full and feel it was uncomfortable. I could name several who wouldn't have enjoyed playing in those conditions though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I think we have a different opinion on the players chosen, but it's no biggy. Need to log off as the missus isn't too well, so chat another time matey. Have a good week. As do i! ah, hope she feels better soon! and Oh we will chat soon, as that bloody message on Steam is back! Have a good'n Av Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I could name several who wouldn't have enjoyed playing in those conditions though! Clever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) It's a bad night when Diouf is the best player on the pitch! I can see why Moyes wants Hitzelsperger, we are worryingly short in that department and Junior looked poor positionally but decent on the ball - not ready yet. bit harsh is it not? making his debut, offered no guidance whatsoever from Fellaini and sold up the river by Naismith for the goal.Im still really pissed at Heitinga for that stamp more than anything. Diouf or not, he can fuck off somewhere else if he wants to do that sort of stuff imo Edited September 25, 2012 by Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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