Longest Thread! for Everton Discussion

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-points-deduction-appeal-compensation-28135629

[Romey 1878]

My anger over this has not abated in the slightest, I'm still absolutely fucking raging.

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

My anger over this has not abated in the slightest, I'm still absolutely fucking raging.

Saturday is going to be a perfect time to release some of your anger and show the PL that we aren’t taking this lying down. 

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Saturday is going to be a perfect time to release some of your anger and show the PL that we aren’t taking this lying down. 

Personally I think Sunday would be better

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Saturday is going to be a perfect time to release some of your anger and show the PL that we aren’t taking this lying down. 

I'm going early to join the protests. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Personally I think Sunday would be better

Fuck, you might be right no point getting there to early. 

[Cornish Steve]

It's quite extraordinary. Even ardent Liverpool supporters are lining up behind Everton and against the Premier League. Whoever would have believed that?

I wouldn't mind betting that Everton will be mentioned in parliament this week, such is the intensity of public feeling around this decision.

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's quite extraordinary. Even ardent Liverpool supporters are lining up behind Everton and against the Premier League. Whoever would have believed that?

I wouldn't mind betting that Everton will be mentioned in parliament this week, such is the intensity of public feeling around this decision.

I said early on, the south never learns from fucking around with this city. 

[Palfy]

22 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

It's quite extraordinary. Even ardent Liverpool supporters are lining up behind Everton and against the Premier League. Whoever would have believed that?

I wouldn't mind betting that Everton will be mentioned in parliament this week, such is the intensity of public feeling around this decision.

I would to be honest, there’s definitely a football rivalry between Blue and Red which if I’m honest has got more toxic than I’d like to have seen over the years, but when the chips are down the City comes together to fight for each other and put their differences aside. There are still households, families and communities that share the same values and space if not the same team. Blues and Reds stand United together through tragedies and travesties of justice.  

[Gwlad]

Spot on. Both my son and brother messaged me on Friday to say it was out of order.

[Johnsy]

11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Just as an aside, how is it even possible for three clubs to sue us anyway? I mean, I know we're fucking massive and all but we could still have only occupied one of the relegation spots.

I've just read that it's actually FIVE suing us.

Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, Burnley and Forest.

Forest?? Cheeky fuckers! What possible reason could they have? Plus they must be sailing close the the FFP wind themselves having signed over a million players in the past 2 years

We play them after United. Hope we smash the cunts.

[Romey 1878]

7 hours ago, Johnsy said:

I've just read that it's actually FIVE suing us.

Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, Burnley and Forest.

Forest?? Cheeky fuckers! What possible reason could they have? Plus they must be sailing close the the FFP wind themselves having signed over a million players in the past 2 years

We play them after United. Hope we smash the cunts.

I read that Forest and Southampton both decided they won't be suing us, but the other three have 28 days (less than that now) to decide whether to proceed.

[RuffRob]

8 hours ago, Johnsy said:

I've just read that it's actually FIVE suing us.

Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, Burnley and Forest.

Forest?? Cheeky fuckers! What possible reason could they have? Plus they must be sailing close the the FFP wind themselves having signed over a million players in the past 2 years

We play them after United. Hope we smash the cunts.

Funny you should say that - I think the original three that basically forced the PL to get the ball rolling on this Burnley, Leeds and Leicester are now by far the three team I most despise with the teams jumping on the bandwagon not far behind them. 

Those shit stirring fuckers going after a single club (which could basically ruin it) to try and feather their own  nests - Their name is shit in my eyes now and I hope the 'smell' of those clubs being 'shithoueses' followes them around to every set of opposition fans the play against. 

I am convinced they have causeed all of this. We have spent next to fuck all this past two years working with the PL, sorting out our FFP over what has been and still is a unusual period in global history. Even after this enquiry, the final FFP overspend is only £19.5M and even that seem to be down to subjective opinion of interest payments for the construction of a new stadium. 

Like you said I now want to see us smash those clubs each and every time we play them. I really hope this gives the team the ammunition to take the full 12 point of Burnley and Forest when we play them this season. I am sure our fans will be doing everything they can in these game to let these teams know what we think of them. 

 

 

[Johnsy]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I read that Forest and Southampton both decided they won't be suing us, but the other three have 28 days (less than that now) to decide whether to proceed.

Yeah, I've seen that now I've done further reading - I was just going off the PL report from May. They are still cunts though.

[Johnsy]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Funny you should say that - I think the original three that basically forced the PL to get the ball rolling on this Burnley, Leeds and Leicester are now by far the three team I most despise with the teams jumping on the bandwagon not far behind them. 

Those shit stirring fuckers going after a single club (which could basically ruin it) to try and feather their own  nests - Their name is shit in my eyes now and I hope the 'smell' of those clubs being 'shithoueses' followes them around to every set of opposition fans the play against. 

I am convinced they have causeed all of this. We have spent next to fuck all this past two years working with the PL, sorting out our FFP over what has been and still is a unusual period in global history. Even after this enquiry, the final FFP overspend is only £19.5M and even that seem to be down to subjective opinion of interest payments for the construction of a new stadium. 

Like you said I now want to see us smash those clubs each and every time we play them. I really hope this gives the team the ammunition to take the full 12 point of Burnley and Forest when we play them this season. I am sure our fans will be doing everything they can in these game to let these teams know what we think of them. 

 

 

I've definitely felt a dislike towards Forest since they came back up, even before I realised they were instigators in the case against us. I think it's something to do with how many players they've bought, and the fact that some players seem to have chosen them over us (Gibbs-White, Elanga), which seems like madness to me (although granted we've not exactly been a particularly attractive prospect for a while!).

 

We play them at home at the end of April. Hopefully they are still in danger then and by smashing them (again) we can put them in trouble. Would love them to go down over Luton.

[RuffRob]

Even if this is a thing where we can be sued, then to be honest the only two teams the might have a case is:

1. Burnley 3rd bottom (21/22) and

2. Leicester 3rd bottom (22/23).

However, Everton could then only have been punished in one of these seasons. It would not be possible to be relegated from the Premiership two back to back seasons, so a choice would have to be made which season do you retrospectievly look at, as you couldn't simply apply it to both and then also 10 point deduction this seaons on top. 

I think it all bullshit anyhow and just re hashed stories from last seaosn when other teams thought they would be in a relegation battle so put there hat in the ring last year to get our finances looked at by the PL in the hope it gets them out of the shit, but its all happened to late for them now. Punishment has now been dished out this season - period. 

Realistically any sueing should be between suing clubs and PL if deemed an untimely and chaotic resolution. i.e they simply don't know what they are doing with these rules they have layed down.

 

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Even if this is a thing where we can be sued, then to be honest the only two teams the might have a case is:

1. Burnley 3rd bottom (21/22) and

2. Leicester 3rd bottom (22/23).

However, Everton could then only have been punished in one of these seasons. It would not be possible to be relegated from the Premiership two back to back seasons, so a choice would have to be made which season do you retrospectievly look at, as you couldn't simply apply it to both and then also 10 point deduction this seaons on top. 

I think it all bullshit anyhow and just re hashed stories from last seaosn when other teams thought they would be in a relegation battle so put there hat in the ring last year to get our finances looked at by the PL in the hope it gets them out of the shit, but its all happened to late for them now. Punishment has now been dished out this season - period. 

Realistically any sueing should be between suing clubs and PL if deemed an untimely and chaotic resolution. i.e they simply don't know what they are doing with these rules they have layed down.

 

 

I think what we are going to find is any team that was relegated in one of the 3 combined years of us exceeding the combined 105 million allowed is going to look at the options of suing us for compensation. Also to add to our woes there is a distinct possibility that we will be charged with breaking FFP rules again in January, when a draft set of accounts for 22-23 have to be submitted by the end of December and will be linked to the previous 2 years and if combined they exceed 105 million allowed we will face another charge of breaching FFP rules, and all the indications are that the draft set of accounts may not be low enough to wipe out the previous 2 years of losses. Ever get the feeling that the PL and half a dozen current and ex PL teams don’t want us around anymore. 

[RuffRob]

The biggest problem it is all being made up as we go along and the whole thing is a fucking joke. What happens to our club is basically going to be decided off the pitch by some faceless third parties.

We have got unlucky as a club in trying to better ourselves, poor signings, player injuries, player arrests, COVID, forced lose of main sponser due to a war and global swing in inflation just after the  committed start of a major stadium build. These all in there own right have a detrimental cost the club. FFP to us is simply third parties putting a boot in when you are on the ground.

What is the ture spirit of FFP? Feels like its long lost to me.

 

[FairWooney]

While I agree with all the outrage about our punishment I think some of the details in the report really highlight how foolishly we've been run.

Sure Moshiri's early spend could have seen us progress up the league and work out well with us earning more revenue through league places and Europe, we over spent on some players, some players didn't meet expectations and some of the signings weren't best thought out so some of that can be excused.  There's was certainly a lot of optimism around some of the signings, especially someone like Klassen who turned out to be a complete failure.  I'd say the failing was not having a great balance in the quality of the signings we made.

One thing that really got me though was that I read that we budgeted to finish 6th under Benitez!

 We'd finished 10th the previous season under Carlo so I can only assume that budget was based on Carlo still being there, even still that seems madness to budget based on the maximum place that we were likely to be able to finish!  I'd have been budgeting at finishing around 10th though given they'd have known they weren't giving Rafa any money even that would have been a bit of a stretch!

The other thing I wasn't happy with was that it clearly seems that although the stadium isn't included in the finances and Moshiri has "bankrolled" a large amount of the build what has happened is that because all of his money has gone there we've had to take out a load of loans to cover the clubs shortfall.  Given that we were reliant on MSP and then 777 to give us further loans this year the stadium build is clearly and very sadly crippling us at the moment.  Hopefully once we move in we will see the extra revenue start to turn the finances around in our favour.  I guess this was the price to pay for getting a new stadium at last.

--

The Ukraine war and Gylfi were big factors in our losses which were out of our control.  Unfortunately with the Russians we were the one club to majorly suffer from the blocking of their dirty money!  There was always excitement from a lot of fans at getting Usmanov money and it's ended up going against us.

--

I don't agree with the 10pt deduction but my thoughts on the "no sporting advantage" would be that any club spending beyond their means is giving themselves an advantage.  Clearly our spending over the years shows that we haven't spent massively at all but had we spent £20 million less somewhere there's probably a reasonable chance it would have been by cutting spend within the squad.

I think the other reason that they're pushing for point deduction (beyond just making a show of someone, being us) is that a fine just doesn't do much of a job at changing the way that clubs run themselves.  They're quite happy to pay a fine and move on.

If the fine was of any consequence it would probably just take us closer to the brink!

[Tonsta]

22 minutes ago, FairWooney said:

While I agree with all the outrage about our punishment I think some of the details in the report really highlight how foolishly we've been run.

Sure Moshiri's early spend could have seen us progress up the league and work out well with us earning more revenue through league places and Europe, we over spent on some players, some players didn't meet expectations and some of the signings weren't best thought out so some of that can be excused.  There's was certainly a lot of optimism around some of the signings, especially someone like Klassen who turned out to be a complete failure.  I'd say the failing was not having a great balance in the quality of the signings we made.

One thing that really got me though was that I read that we budgeted to finish 6th under Benitez!

 We'd finished 10th the previous season under Carlo so I can only assume that budget was based on Carlo still being there, even still that seems madness to budget based on the maximum place that we were likely to be able to finish!  I'd have been budgeting at finishing around 10th though given they'd have known they weren't giving Rafa any money even that would have been a bit of a stretch!

The other thing I wasn't happy with was that it clearly seems that although the stadium isn't included in the finances and Moshiri has "bankrolled" a large amount of the build what has happened is that because all of his money has gone there we've had to take out a load of loans to cover the clubs shortfall.  Given that we were reliant on MSP and then 777 to give us further loans this year the stadium build is clearly and very sadly crippling us at the moment.  Hopefully once we move in we will see the extra revenue start to turn the finances around in our favour.  I guess this was the price to pay for getting a new stadium at last.

--

The Ukraine war and Gylfi were big factors in our losses which were out of our control.  Unfortunately with the Russians we were the one club to majorly suffer from the blocking of their dirty money!  There was always excitement from a lot of fans at getting Usmanov money and it's ended up going against us.

--

I don't agree with the 10pt deduction but my thoughts on the "no sporting advantage" would be that any club spending beyond their means is giving themselves an advantage.  Clearly our spending over the years shows that we haven't spent massively at all but had we spent £20 million less somewhere there's probably a reasonable chance it would have been by cutting spend within the squad.

I think the other reason that they're pushing for point deduction (beyond just making a show of someone, being us) is that a fine just doesn't do much of a job at changing the way that clubs run themselves.  They're quite happy to pay a fine and move on.

If the fine was of any consequence it would probably just take us closer to the brink!

While i agree with what you have said, how was a fine ok for Leicester in 2018 for doing exactly as we have done.are the teams that finished second and third that year going to sue them, and a fine was ok for the 6 clubs who tried to destroy the premier league, double standards or what.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/pompey-recruitment-chiefs-dream-everton-switch-on-hold-as-blues-plot-transfer-business-4416067

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, FairWooney said:

While I agree with all the outrage about our punishment I think some of the details in the report really highlight how foolishly we've been run.

Sure Moshiri's early spend could have seen us progress up the league and work out well with us earning more revenue through league places and Europe, we over spent on some players, some players didn't meet expectations and some of the signings weren't best thought out so some of that can be excused.  There's was certainly a lot of optimism around some of the signings, especially someone like Klassen who turned out to be a complete failure.  I'd say the failing was not having a great balance in the quality of the signings we made.

One thing that really got me though was that I read that we budgeted to finish 6th under Benitez!

 We'd finished 10th the previous season under Carlo so I can only assume that budget was based on Carlo still being there, even still that seems madness to budget based on the maximum place that we were likely to be able to finish!  I'd have been budgeting at finishing around 10th though given they'd have known they weren't giving Rafa any money even that would have been a bit of a stretch!

The other thing I wasn't happy with was that it clearly seems that although the stadium isn't included in the finances and Moshiri has "bankrolled" a large amount of the build what has happened is that because all of his money has gone there we've had to take out a load of loans to cover the clubs shortfall.  Given that we were reliant on MSP and then 777 to give us further loans this year the stadium build is clearly and very sadly crippling us at the moment.  Hopefully once we move in we will see the extra revenue start to turn the finances around in our favour.  I guess this was the price to pay for getting a new stadium at last.

--

The Ukraine war and Gylfi were big factors in our losses which were out of our control.  Unfortunately with the Russians we were the one club to majorly suffer from the blocking of their dirty money!  There was always excitement from a lot of fans at getting Usmanov money and it's ended up going against us.

--

I don't agree with the 10pt deduction but my thoughts on the "no sporting advantage" would be that any club spending beyond their means is giving themselves an advantage.  Clearly our spending over the years shows that we haven't spent massively at all but had we spent £20 million less somewhere there's probably a reasonable chance it would have been by cutting spend within the squad.

I think the other reason that they're pushing for point deduction (beyond just making a show of someone, being us) is that a fine just doesn't do much of a job at changing the way that clubs run themselves.  They're quite happy to pay a fine and move on.

If the fine was of any consequence it would probably just take us closer to the brink!

Looking at it from a pure numbers perspective, one incident alone could be said to have caused this situation: recruiting Gylfi Sigurdsson. Of course, we can say the same about choosing to work with Usmanov, but I think the Gylfi situation puts the whole thing into perspective. Should a club face such a punishment over the mistaken hire of one player?

[Matt]

24 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Looking at it from a pure numbers perspective, one incident alone could be said to have caused this situation: recruiting Gylfi Sigurdsson. Of course, we can say the same about choosing to work with Usmanov, but I think the Gylfi situation puts the whole thing into perspective. Should a club face such a punishment over the mistaken hire of one player?

Especially as he wasn't found guilty. 

[Romey 1878]

 

[Romey 1878]

Kaveh the dick head on SSN has said there’s a feeling it’ll be changed to a fine and transfer ban. 

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Kaveh the dick head on SSN has said there’s a feeling it’ll be changed to a fine and transfer ban. 

Transfer ban?!? WTF 

[RuffRob]

One thing is for sure - thank fuck this punishment didn't come in to effect in May last season or the season before - or we would be arguing this point as a Championship team. We dodged that bullet.

Dyche took over this team in a very similar postion at the end of January last season. This year it is the middle of November, we have a much better balanced squad and there are three weaker teams in the PL this season. 

Lets hope this galvaninses the club from top to bottom.  

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Transfer ban?!? WTF 

It should have read or transfer ban. Apologies!

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429

 

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429

 

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67477429