The Regulator Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 "Mix that with his possible partnership with Ivan Ramis and we could have had a brilliant defensive line up. The two of them would be a defensive partnership that we have been crying out for in recent years" This. Ivan Ramis was their big money defender and he didn't play that much, neither did Alcaraz. Had those two started every game, I imagine Wigan might have staved off the drop, considering how close Stoke/Sunderland/Newcastle/Aston Villa all came to going down as well. He is cover. This much is obvious. If Heitinga goes he might see a few more games, but Jags and Distin will probably still be our centre backs for next season. I think this is a smart transfer, not a great one, but a smart one. Everybody keeps acting like 4 CB's is enough, but our defense at the moment consists of: Hibbert, Coleman, Stones, Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Duffy, Baines, Oveido Now remove Hibbert from the equation as I think now he's too old and won't feature, Stones will take time to bed in and will probably end up a CB but not this year. Duffy is almost there but not quite, so another season of loans/sporadic first team appearances beckons. In reality, signing Alcaraz on a two year deal could well see him covering for 3-4 players as things change here. Distin is probably in his last season, and Heitinga might well move on. If both were to happen, this time next year we'd only have 2 CB's. I imagine it's a lot easier getting players you need when you don't need them as opposed to when everyone knows you're desperate for them. Either way, if he signs, he signs. I don't see it as a bad move at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Moyes was left in a crappy position and thus was Shane Duffy. On one hand, Distin, Jags, and Heitinga were clearly ahead of Duffy in the pecking order. On the other hand, if we sent Duffy on a long-term loan then we would have been one injury away from an absolute disaster scenario at center back. If Duffy isn't surely ready for rotation duties at our level then we need to bring in cover. It's best for the team and it's best for Duffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I havent got a problem with bringing himin on a free , especially if it means we sell Hetinga and pocket the cash to strengthen eslewhere, however imagine the outcry if Moyes had tried to sign him! I trusted moyes when it came to signing defenders, I think he got the vast majority right - albeit Kroldrup will forever live in my memory as panic/bad buys with a vast chunk of money (comparitive to budget) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I trusted moyes when it came to signing defenders, I think he got the vast majority right - albeit Kroldrup will forever live in my memory as panic/bad buys with a vast chunk of money (comparitive to budget) I have no idea who Kroldrup is (perhaps someone could enlighten me) but I would imagine that picking up Baines and Jagielka on the cheap (relatively speaking) more than makes up for it. Coleman isn't too shabby a pickup, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Duffy has been involved for his country at senior level, he's not going to go on loan or sit on the bench for much longer. He probably see's it as a new manager means an opportunity to get a run in the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy8 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I'll be annoyed if we sign Alcaraz. IMO Duffy deserves a chance, and he'd be more likely to get one without Alcaraz here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I'll be annoyed if we sign Alcaraz. IMO Duffy deserves a chance, and he'd be more likely to get one without Alcaraz here. And what happens if we don't bring anyone in and then find out in October that Duffy isn't ready yet? We'd be screwed. Insurance is needed. If Duffy is worthy of playing time then he's going to get it. Jagielka is the only center back on the roster (with or without Alcaraz) who is pretty much locked into the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) I have no idea who Kroldrup is (perhaps someone could enlighten me) but I would imagine that picking up Baines and Jagielka on the cheap (relatively speaking) more than makes up for it. Coleman isn't too shabby a pickup, either. He was a player Moyes signed in 2005 for over £5m (a vast sum at that time). When he arrived at Everton there was a problem... he couldn't head a ball. We sold him to fiorentina for (apprently) £700k. One story is we were meant to sign his partner. Edited June 12, 2013 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I have no idea who Kroldrup is (perhaps someone could enlighten me) but I would imagine that picking up Baines and Jagielka on the cheap (relatively speaking) more than makes up for it. Coleman isn't too shabby a pickup, either. Not to mention Lescott, and indeed Yobo. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy8 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 And what happens if we don't bring anyone in and then find out in October that Duffy isn't ready yet? We'd be screwed. Insurance is needed. If Duffy is worthy of playing time then he's going to get it. Jagielka is the only center back on the roster (with or without Alcaraz) who is pretty much locked into the first team. He has played for us in the League before, albeit not a lot of games but at this stage even with this squad he won't be playing every game. The times he did play I was impressed enough to say he deserves a bit more of a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Not to mention Lescott, and indeed Yobo. Yup, those two as well. Even Sir Alex Ferguson made the occasional poor buy. Nobody is going to be flawless. He was a player Moyes signed in 2005 for over £5m (a vast sum at that time). When he arrived at Everton there was a problem... he couldn't head a ball. We sold him to fiorentina for (apprently) £700k. One story is we were meant to sign his partner. Thanks. Just looked up his info... pretty bizarre that he made only two appearances. Seems he's having a decent career in Serie A, though that's like the least physical league in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 He has played for us in the League before, albeit not a lot of games but at this stage even with this squad he won't be playing every game. The times he did play I was impressed enough to say he deserves a bit more of a go. Don't get me wrong, I want to see him get some chances as well. But it would be silly to rely on him. Even if he is ready... injuries happen. Jags is pretty much due for a few knocks with the way he plays and Distin is not getting any younger. There was a lot of focus on how poor our depth was last season. I don't think we are in a place where we can complain about adding EPL capable players on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yup, those two as well. Even Sir Alex Ferguson made the occasional poor buy. Nobody is going to be flawless. Thanks. Just looked up his info... pretty bizarre that he made only two appearances. Seems he's having a decent career in Serie A, though that's like the least physical league in Europe. Kroldrup is one of the biggest mysteries in modern Everton history. I saw him play in Italy before he came to Everton and he was fantastic. Seen him play in italy after he left and again, he has had some amazing days wher he has looked unbeatable. He has had plenty of games for Denmark (over 30 caps I think) where some have been amazing but he was booted out of Everton quicker than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Me thinks something happened behind the scenes. No-one here can say that they saw what he was like in the two appearances that he had for Everton. Worst buy ever? Yes as he cost us 5 mil and we saw less than 1 mil back for him after only 2 games but why only two games? Fiorentina played him in over 100 games after they bought him off Everton. Over 100 games in Serie A is an achievement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Kroldrup is one of the biggest mysteries in modern Everton history. I saw him play in Italy before he came to Everton and he was fantastic. Seen him play in italy after he left and again, he has had some amazing days wher he has looked unbeatable. He has had plenty of games for Denmark (over 30 caps I think) where some have been amazing but he was booted out of Everton quicker than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Me thinks something happened behind the scenes. No-one here can say that they saw what he was like in the two appearances that he had for Everton. Worst buy ever? Yes as he cost us 5 mil and we saw less than 1 mil back for him after only 2 games but why only two games? Fiorentina played him in over 100 games after they bought him off Everton. Over 100 games in Serie A is an achievement. It was certainly very strange to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/jan/20/newsstory.sport17 This says he was sold for £3million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/jan/20/newsstory.sport17 This says he was sold for £3million. Toffeeweb says £5m (though it also says he went to Udinese, so probably not the most reliable source); the OS says he went for "Deal rising to £3.4m". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 There is absolutely no chance we sold him for £700K. None. I don't believe he was sold because he couldn't head the ball either. Something else went on with this. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 There is absolutely no chance we sold him for £700K. None. I don't believe he was sold because he couldn't head the ball either. Something else went on with this. He was probably just sold because he was shit. What other reason than him being shit is needed? "We signed this lad, he's shit. What should we do?" "Should we sell him?" "Great idea!" On Alcaraz, is he a left footer? If he is, and we can shift Johnny, we would have two leftys with Alcaraz and Distin, and two rightys with Jags and Duffy. An ideally balanced scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamryanstover Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 He was probably just sold because he was shit. What other reason than him being shit is needed? "We signed this lad, he's shit. What should we do?" "Should we sell him?" "Great idea!" On Alcaraz, is he a left footer? If he is, and we can shift Johnny, we would have two leftys with Alcaraz and Distin, and two rightys with Jags and Duffy. An ideally balanced scenario? Yeah, but how long did we stick with Yakubu, Bily, and now Johnny with poor performances. Hell we all chastised Victor for several seasons, and to be honest he had no business playing for Everton. We stuck with him and he seems a much improved player. Not to mention last year Wigan were linked so maybe Martinez has special plans for him. Kroldrup made over 100 appearances for one of the top 6 Italian sides. More happened then was told. My guess is he had personal problems with Moyes or one of his staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 In talks with us - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-everton-fc-transfer-4312450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) And what happens if we don't bring anyone in and then find out in October that Duffy isn't ready yet? We'd be screwed. Insurance is needed. If Duffy is worthy of playing time then he's going to get it. Jagielka is the only center back on the roster (with or without Alcaraz) who is pretty much locked into the first team. I find this hard to believe. Not only has he had a few games and looked more than capable, but he has been involved for his country at senior level now, so we can't honestly expect him to go on loan again. Trapattoni has been in the game long enough to know a good player from a shit one, that's good enough for me tbh. Edited June 14, 2013 by Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I find this hard to believe. Not only has he had a few games and looked more than capable, but he has been involved for his country at senior level now, so we can't honestly expect him to go on loan again. Trapattoni has been in the game long enough to know a good player from a shit one, that's good enough for me tbh. I think we will be selling heitinga leaving us with the following as centre backs:- Jags Distin Alcaraz Duffy That for me is fine. SimonButtle, StevO and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 There is absolutely no chance we sold him for £700K. None. I don't believe he was sold because he couldn't head the ball either. Something else went on with this. He has admitted he couldn't adapt to the physical side of the English game and was homesick for Italy. Simple as that. His only league appearance was in a 4-0 defeat to Villa, at Villa (Boxing Day 2005). Toffeeweb likely getting confused as we bought him from Udinese, who we then played in a friendly at Goodison (I was at both games and Kroldrup looked "magnificent" in the tippy-tappy friendly when he got 5 minutes to think about who to give the ball away to. Don't know about couldn't head it... he couldn't kick it, either). He got injured in training after the Udinese friendly in the August and wasn't fit again until the Villa game. He was worse than Glenn Keeley, when we played Villa, and that's saying something as Keeley's Everton career lasted about half an hour - against Liverpool, at Goodison in THAT 0-5 while on loan from Blackburn - he was on his way back to Blackburn before full time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think we will be selling heitinga leaving us with the following as centre backs:- Jags Distin Alcaraz Duffy That for me is fine. Agreed, id be fairly happy with that, and at worse in a crisis Stones could play at CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Agreed, id be fairly happy with that, and at worse in a crisis Stones could play at CB However Distin even though is ridiculously fit for a bloke for a man in his mid 30's may slow down to being just reasonably quick and may need replacing in next year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I find this hard to believe. Not only has he had a few games and looked more than capable, but he has been involved for his country at senior level now, so we can't honestly expect him to go on loan again. Trapattoni has been in the game long enough to know a good player from a shit one, that's good enough for me tbh. He came on after an hour in a 2-0 loss to Spurs. Then started in 1-1 draws with Aston Villa and Blackburn two seasons ago. While I agree he did fine, he also looked kind of sluggish to me. Trapattoni has had him in the squad, sure, but they don't have a single centre back even near good enough for Everton (Darren O'Dea, Sean St Ledger, Paul McShane, Damien Delaney). On a side note, there's also plenty of reason to doubt Trappatoni's ability to see the difference between good and bad players given his persistence on playing Glenn Whelan and Keith Andrews in the Euros when he had Darron Gibson and James McCarthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I find this hard to believe. Not only has he had a few games and looked more than capable, but he has been involved for his country at senior level now, so we can't honestly expect him to go on loan again. Trapattoni has been in the game long enough to know a good player from a shit one, that's good enough for me tbh. When did he play at Senior level Simon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 When did he play at Senior level Simon? I know he has been on the bench a couple of times but has he ever played for Ireland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I know he has been on the bench a couple of times but has he ever played for Ireland? Somebody mentioned it to me the other day, and they were right, that he hadn't played for them yet. Only U21's. It doesn't make too much difference, as for example, has Arteta played for Spain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 ps. I don't think he is in the current squad according to Wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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