David Moyes - Any hope for Man Utd fans?

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

Good afternoon

 

Man Utd fan here. Hope that you are all well and enjoying your season. Obviously a lot of us United fans are in meltdown after the horrendous season that we have endured under Moyes so far. Nonetheless, there are a good number of fans though who are absolutely sure that Moyes is the right man and just needs time and (lots of) money to build a team in his image.

 

The greatest bone of contention with Moyes's reign so far is that we play God awful one dimensional football. Most of us could handle these type kind of results after the seismic shift of Ferguson leaving if we looked to be making tactical progress or playing great football. Moyes's defenders in the United fan ranks claim that Moyes had Everton playing great football last season and that his is in fact capable of evolving into a manager who will excite fans with great football, oh yeah and get the better of the likes of Mourinho to win titles.

 

What think the denizens of Toffee Talk? Did Moyes ever have you guys playing good football worthy of Manchester United? What are you predictions for Moyes's Manchester United after years of watching Moyes at Everton?

[NYBlue]

I remember at the start of last season that he had us playing some great football, equally there were times when the football was dreadful.

 

I didn't appreciate the way that Moyes worked his exit out to United and that was a great bone of contention between the clubs, if I remember correctly United even sent a written apology to the club about it. Couldn't begrudge him the opportunity but then something happened and some of the comments from him were so disrespectful I had to actually watch him say what he said to truly believe it.

 

I think a big problem Moyes has is his handling of Rooney, since when should a player be consulted on which players are to come in. it's obviously caused problems behind the scenes. Some players haven't helped him, particularly Ferdinand.

 

As you know he has a massive rebuilding project and Fergie obviously papered over the cracks to a large degree. I think it's going to be rough for a number of years while he gets the players in he wants. I think your days of fast attacking football are behind you, it's going to be one dimensional for a long time to come but I think he'll likely get it right but 'right' may most likely mean no silverware or CL for a long time to come.

 

In a nutshell United are screwed. They should have gone for Mourinho, they obviously didn't think he would stick around but he openly courted the club to make him the new manager and he was passed over. He's since said he was looking for a long term project and that will now happen at Chelsea, you may have also said goodbye to attacking football with him but as he as come out and said today, he doesn't fail very often.

[MikeO]

This one's for you Haf !

 

In the mean time have a skim through here for the TT take to date....

 

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25303-david-moyes-thread/

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

As you know he has a massive rebuilding project and Fergie obviously papered over the cracks to a large degree. I think it's going to be rough for a number of years while he gets the players in he wants. I think your days of fast attacking football are behind you, it's going to be one dimensional for a long time to come but I think he'll likely get it right but 'right' may most likely mean no silverware or CL for a long time to come.

 

In a nutshell United are screwed.

 

Thank you for your response. Moyes won't get many years of no CL. I think that he will start to come under pressure 18 months into his reign if he is not showing signs of improving. I think that will mean Manchester United being top four come Christmas.

 

The bolded part is rather disconcerting!

 

Cheers for that link Dixie. I have read it before but wanted to get a feel if the TT posters think that Moyes has it in him to win trophies with United and to get us playing attractive football.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Jimy_Hills_Chin

[Guest Nikica]

You the guy with the same username from Redcafe? Been reading it for years, the majority are clueless fuckers on there - terrible site.

 

Anyway, I said at the time that Moyes is a mid-table manager and wouldn't cut it at United. He isn't a bad manager but he's certainly not good enough for a club which aims to win the title every season. The appointment smacked of xenophobia, frankly - Ferguson going on about his 'Scottishness'. I'm Scottish myself (and not an Everton fan, btw). I just found it embarrassing. Great leaders should never be allowed to select their successor.

[Romey 1878]

When he was still our manager I laughed every time he was linked with the United job. Why? Because he was never good enough for a top job and he isn't now.

 

And by the time he left us I was happy to be shut of him and would've given him a piggy back all the way to Old Trafford myself.

 

A good manager but not a great manager. United should've gone for better than Moyes; a manager who is middle of the road and very limited and not capable of evolution - what you see is what you get. So what you see now is all you'll ever see.

 

Enjoy being bored to death.

[Hafnia]

When you should have been looking at a manager from a pool of managers like mourinho, pep, klopp, hiddink, you actually selected the best from a pool like pulis, Martin oneill, allardyce, Clarke, jol, hodgson.

 

I'll give further context later. Waiting for my Chinese banquet at the moment...

[Cornish Steve]

Obviously a lot of us United fans are in meltdown after the horrendous season that we have endured under Moyes so far.

 

It depends on what you mean by 'horrendous'. I would had said that 'horrendous' meant you were battling relegation. As it is, you're about where many expected given an aging squad with zero effective new blood since last season (Mata excepted). It's not that you don't have talent; however, other teams improved a lot while you stood still.

 

 

The greatest bone of contention with Moyes's reign so far is that we play God awful one dimensional football.

 

While some here will disagree with me, I'd say that this is no surprise either. It's the way David Moyes sets up his teams. He will get you back into the Top Four, but you may not like his style of football. Be warned: When he does spent that 100m in the summer, it will be for players who excel in that style. Don't look for exciting football; look for effective football.

 

Many comments I've read about David Moyes have been too personal. The guy does not have a great personality, and this is obvious in his press conferences. In the end, though, he should be judged on his results on the pitch.

[MikeO]

When you should have been looking at a manager from a pool of managers like mourinho, pep, klopp, hiddink, you actually selected the best from a pool like pulis, Martin oneill, allardyce, Clarke, jol, hodgson.

 

I'll give further context later. Waiting for my Chinese banquet at the moment...

 

Eat quickly....I'm looking forward to this one .

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

You the guy with the same username from Redcafe? Been reading it for years, the majority are clueless fuckers on there - terrible site.

 

Anyway, I said at the time that Moyes is a mid-table manager and wouldn't cut it at United. He isn't a bad manager but he's certainly not good enough for a club which aims to win the title every season. The appointment smacked of xenophobia, frankly - Ferguson going on about his 'Scottishness'. I'm Scottish myself (and not an Everton fan, btw). I just found it embarrassing. Great leaders should never be allowed to select their successor.

Why read Redcafe then?

 

I think that Moyes being Scottish played a worryingly big part in him getting the job. Looking back though, the two great periods of success were under Busby and Ferguson, both Scots. I think that Fergie sees something inherent in the Scottish character that makes them good leaders. Fergie was always keen to have a lot of firstly English and secondly British Isle players in the squad. He is a proud Brit and Unionist as well as a Scot and he always thought that a English/British core was very important to the club.

 

There is a feeling amongst a fair few United fans that Moyes was chosen largely for antiquated traditions rather than a footballing philosophy, that he is very much the wrong choice and that Fergie's stubbornness and the clubs desire not to be a sacking one will see us paying for it for a good while yet.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Jimy_Hills_Chin

[NYBlue]

 

Thank you for your response. Moyes won't get many years of no CL. I think that he will start to come under pressure 18 months into his reign if he is not showing signs of improving. I think that will mean Manchester United being top four come Christmas.

 

The bolded part is rather disconcerting!

 

Cheers for that link Dixie. I have read it before but wanted to get a feel if the TT posters think that Moyes has it in him to win trophies with United and to get us playing attractive football.

 

I'll clarify the bold part

 

United continually make a big point that the manager will be given time and this was en-forced through the 6 year contract handed to Moyes at the start of his reign. They obviously didn't anticipate the season going as badly as it has. It'll be interesting to see what high level decisions they make in the future. If he is sacked then it goes completely against the whole ethos that the club has been promoting. It also validates that Fergie's decision was a poor one.

 

There is a belief in those values. I've just seen that Meulensteen has been sacked the best thing Moyes could do would be to bring him back in. Can't see it happening though.

[Guest Nikica]

Why read Redcafe then?

 

I think that Moyes being Scottish played a worryingly big part in him getting the job. Looking back though, the two great periods of success were under Busby and Ferguson, both Scots. I think that Fergie sees something inherent in the Scottish character that makes them good leaders. Fergie was always keen to have a lot of firstly English and secondly British Isle players in the squad. He is a proud Brit and Unionist as well as a Scot and he always thought that a English/British core was very important to the club.

 

There is a feeling amongst a fair few United fans that Moyes was chosen largely for antiquated traditions rather than a footballing philosophy, that he is very much the wrong choice and that Fergie's stubbornness and the clubs desire not to be a sacking one will see us paying for it for a good while yet.

 

I like to laugh at the delusion on display - that site is full of people who always look on the bright side and actively shut down any criticism of Man United or its players whatsoever, I actually find the 'top red' mentality on there pretty pathetic as there can be no progression in life without criticism. The Welbeck thread is a particular belter - people there think he's a world-class superstar in the making and that his general play is fantastic. Absolutely clueless.

 

What makes me laugh the most is that three times or so in the last few years I've seen threads pop up where people there congratulate themselves on being the best football site on the internet - nobody in their right mind takes the place seriously and it's worse than RAWK, despite your constant jibes at the Liverpool forum. I find RAWK far more informed when it comes to football outside of the UK. Redcafe is full of premfaces. You can't deny the place is embarrassing.

 

I find the snobbery over the 'newbie' system pretty pathetic as well - lots of poor posters clearly make it up to the main forum because glorifying everything Man United is what's required. Just so you know, I absolutely hate Man United (and no it isn't because of envy, because I don't mind far more successful clubs like Barca and Milan). There's lots of myths about your club which are repeated ad nauseam on there, it's quite amusing to see how many United 'fans' on there are ignorant of their history. But this isn't the place to discuss it.

 

To be fair it's a good site when it comes to general discussion and entertainment - but in terms of football discussion it's very poor. Just so you know though I wasn't referring to you personally with the 'clueless' comments. I'm not looking for an argument - this is simply the first opportunity I've had to tell a Redcafe poster what a cesspool of a site it is.

 

Anyway, now that I've told you what I think about that dump, I will reply to the rest...

 

what you call a 'proud Unionist' (so proud that the purple-nosed prick claims to be a socialist whilst accepting knighthoods) I call a little-Englander/Britainer (in this case at least). it's clear to me that Ferguson always liked British players and the antiquated British style (442, traditional crossing wingers in the 2000s etc). Your final paragraph sums up exactly what I think. It's taken many of your fellow Mancs a while to realise it though.

 

Oh, and just so you know, anyone who associates particular 'character traits' with a particular nationality has lost the plot. Moyes is from Bearsden which is a very affluent part of the country - I can assure you he didn't have the sort of upbringing Ferguson himself had.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

By the way, Antonio Valencia is one of the most limited, one-dimensional, one-footed players I have ever seen play for an elite club.

 

And you can find my more extensive thoughts on Moyes on page 10 of the thread Mike links to above.#

 

Another thing I dislike about Redcafe is the casual use of the word 'spastic' as an insult. Absolutely deplorable.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Nikica

[Hafnia]

Here we go....

 

A big part of the Moyes story is the situation of the team when he took over... Quite frankly we were shit. That squad of players in todays game are bottom of the league, it was just that back then there were teams as bad, it was a case of being organised better and working hard to make the difference. Moyes came in and did what pulis has done to palace. Galvanized the morale, gave them a different perspective in how to get results.

 

To get that shit that Smith gor the sack, we fans witnessed year after year of shite replacing shite, then a batch of retiring ex greats come to show the goodison faithful how sad it is when legs go. Albeit for £30k a week.

 

Moyes first game seen the fans applaud him on the pitch against Fulham, a great start by unsworth, madness by Ferguson seen us struggle to a morale boosting win. The sight of Moyes tearing jesper blomkvist a new one after showing dissent was awesome, we had an arse kicker on our hands.

 

So it turned out, Moyes took a bunch of free loaders and added a much needed element of steel, discipline, structure and hard work. He also inherited Wayne Rooney.

 

Rooney was a freak, possibly the closest thing I have seen to a one man team in my years watching Everton. At the time, Rooney was bigger than the team, bigger than the manager wanted him to be. When Everton have a hero, the fans demand and expect. Moyes didn't like that. Moyes wants to be the main man and ensures that no one will be bigger than him.

 

Rooney had a patchy final season under Moyes - rumours of fall outs, Rooney getting benched, played out of position, weight gain. A bad season seen us dip abd after Euro 2004 Rooney gave the club a £28m cash injection.

 

Moyes made some excellent signings, talented cheap pros with something to prove. Loan to buy, lower league etc.

 

A 4-5-1 system seen us hard to beat, a series of 1-0 wins got us over the line and we miraculously made champions league.

 

At this time I thought the man was a genius. The failed CL qualifier was gutting but we were so happy to see what more he could deliver with better players etc.

 

He continued to evolve the team with better players but in all honesty the style and progression of football didn't evolve. Same tactics, same mistakes, same surrenders at top 4 stadiums. There were some mutterings of "this is shite" - only to be shushed with "look what he's done for us"

 

This last chapter repeated itself with some contract renewals where he leveraged his popularity with fans petrified to think how we would survive without him. He did it well, £70k a week. He stopped challenging the board for money, kept talking about us being poor... Kept putting them team out to boring one dimensional tactics, continued to look more and more disinterested, negativity in every interview, the fans drowning in apathy.

 

Anyway, that was pretty much the chronological story of Moyes. For me he has a certain skill set - to patch up a broken team. Once stable he should walk away to the next broken one.

 

A decent manager at best. Not a top 6 manager of a top level league.

[Cornish Steve]

 

I like to laugh at the delusion on display - that site is full of people who always look on the bright side and actively shut down any criticism of Man United or its players whatsoever, I actually find the 'top red' mentality on there pretty pathetic as there can be no progression in life without criticism. The Welbeck thread is a particular belter - people there think he's a world-class superstar in the making and that his general play is fantastic. Absolutely clueless.

 

What makes me laugh the most is that three times or so in the last few years I've seen threads pop up where people there congratulate themselves on being the best football site on the internet - nobody in their right mind takes the place seriously and it's worse than RAWK, despite your constant jibes at the Liverpool forum. I find RAWK far more informed when it comes to football outside of the UK. Redcafe is full of premfaces. You can't deny the place is embarrassing.

 

I find the snobbery over the 'newbie' system pretty pathetic as well - lots of poor posters clearly make it up to the main forum because glorifying everything Man United is what's required. Just so you know, I absolutely hate Man United (and no it isn't because of envy, because I don't mind far more successful clubs like Barca and Milan). There's lots of myths about your club which are repeated ad nauseam on there, it's quite amusing to see how many United 'fans' on there are ignorant of their history. But this isn't the place to discuss it.

 

To be fair it's a good site when it comes to general discussion and entertainment - but in terms of football discussion it's very poor. Just so you know though I wasn't referring to you personally with the 'clueless' comments. I'm not looking for an argument - this is simply the first opportunity I've had to tell a Redcafe poster what a cesspool of a site it is.

 

So you think it might be worth a visit then?

[Cornish Steve]

Rooney had a patchy final season under Moyes - rumours of fall outs, Rooney getting benched, played out of position, weight gain.

 

This is what I really don't get: Why does David Moyes play some of his most talented players out of position? He does it all the time! Jones is played here and then there. Mata is pushed to the left wing. Why ever would you do that?

[Hafnia]

 

This is what I really don't get: Why does David Moyes play some of his most talented players out of position? He does it all the time! Jones is played here and then there. Mata is pushed to the left wing. Why ever would you do that?

He has a formation in mind and that selects what the players do... Whether it's their natural role or not. Square pegs round holes.

[MikeO]

He has a formation in mind and that selects what the players do... Whether it's their natural role or not. Square pegs round holes.

 

I don't think even his most ardent supporters could disagree with that; occasionally it worked, mostly it didn't.

[marcopaulo]

rodwell on the wing being the stupidest example..still gripes me

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

 

I like to laugh at the delusion on display - that site is full of people who always look on the bright side and actively shut down any criticism of Man United or its players whatsoever, I actually find the 'top red' mentality on there pretty pathetic as there can be no progression in life without criticism. The Welbeck thread is a particular belter - people there think he's a world-class superstar in the making and that his general play is fantastic. Absolutely clueless.

 

What makes me laugh the most is that three times or so in the last few years I've seen threads pop up where people there congratulate themselves on being the best football site on the internet - nobody in their right mind takes the place seriously and it's worse than RAWK, despite your constant jibes at the Liverpool forum. I find RAWK far more informed when it comes to football outside of the UK. Redcafe is full of premfaces. You can't deny the place is embarrassing.

 

I find the snobbery over the 'newbie' system pretty pathetic as well - lots of poor posters clearly make it up to the main forum because glorifying everything Man United is what's required. Just so you know, I absolutely hate Man United (and no it isn't because of envy, because I don't mind far more successful clubs like Barca and Milan). There's lots of myths about your club which are repeated ad nauseam on there, it's quite amusing to see how many United 'fans' on there are ignorant of their history. But this isn't the place to discuss it.

 

To be fair it's a good site when it comes to general discussion and entertainment - but in terms of football discussion it's very poor. Just so you know though I wasn't referring to you personally with the 'clueless' comments. I'm not looking for an argument - this is simply the first opportunity I've had to tell a Redcafe poster what a cesspool of a site it is.

 

Anyway, now that I've told you what I think about that dump, I will reply to the rest...

 

what you call a 'proud Unionist' (so proud that the purple-nosed prick claims to be a socialist whilst accepting knighthoods) I call a little-Englander/Britainer (in this case at least). it's clear to me that Ferguson always liked British players and the antiquated British style (442, traditional crossing wingers in the 2000s etc). Your final paragraph sums up exactly what I think. It's taken many of your fellow Mancs a while to realise it though.

 

Oh, and just so you know, anyone who associates particular 'character traits' with a particular nationality has lost the plot. Moyes is from Bearsden which is a very affluent part of the country - I can assure you he didn't have the sort of upbringing Ferguson himself had.

 

Christ you don't like Man Utd! I think that on Redcafe you can be ostracised if you are not constantly praising the club. If you take a cynical and sceptical view towards thing the main 'heads' on there do not like it. To be fair though, prior to this season, why the hell shouldn't a Man Utd fan look on the bright side? We were very lucky to be winning all the time. Fergie was only 3 points away from winning 7 league titles on the bounce before he retired. He got 5/7 in the end.

 

The Welbeck as the new Jesus is kind of popular on there. I can't disagree with that! Not my opinion though. The thing is that United have never really brought a great local striker through the ranks, there was a lot of hope that Welbeck would be that player, he is also a very likeable chap too.

 

Yeah, Fergie has a massive ego, is bloody minded and is often hypocritical. I don't really think that a Ghandi type character would be able to prevail in that kind of competitive environment. I don't really expect guys like Mourinho and Ferguson to be choir boys.

 

Worringly Fergie had previously recommended Sven Erikson (from the Hodgson school) and Martin O'Neil to succeed him previously which kind of shows that he ain't too good at this type of stuff. When you are chosing players you can make mistakes here and there but if you choose the wrong manager then the consequences are far greater.

 

I think that Redcafe is a good site though.

[Bailey]

Good afternoon

 

Man Utd fan here. Hope that you are all well and enjoying your season. Obviously a lot of us United fans are in meltdown after the horrendous season that we have endured under Moyes so far. Nonetheless, there are a good number of fans though who are absolutely sure that Moyes is the right man and just needs time and (lots of) money to build a team in his image.

 

The greatest bone of contention with Moyes's reign so far is that we play God awful one dimensional football. Most of us could handle these type kind of results after the seismic shift of Ferguson leaving if we looked to be making tactical progress or playing great football. Moyes's defenders in the United fan ranks claim that Moyes had Everton playing great football last season and that his is in fact capable of evolving into a manager who will excite fans with great football, oh yeah and get the better of the likes of Mourinho to win titles.

 

What think the denizens of Toffee Talk? Did Moyes ever have you guys playing good football worthy of Manchester United? What are you predictions for Moyes's Manchester United after years of watching Moyes at Everton?

 

I think Moyes will get you moving back up the table because if he could get our squad to around the 6th-8th region, he can take Utd into the top 4 but I doubt he will bring you the titles the fans crave.

 

All you need to know about Moyes was shown in the Arsenal game the other day. No matter how much you need the 3 points, Moyes will always look to make sure he leaves with a point, especially at the bigger clubs. It was one dimensional, and other than stop Arsenal scoring and hope we nick a goal you wont get much better than that away from home.

 

At OT though you should be doing better but we were always at our worst when we had the expectation to win which is why we did quite well at home against some of the better clubs in the league. We played some excellent stuff on occasions but the truth is, it was limited to 4 or 5 games a season. We would play ok for another 10-12 and then poorly for the rest.

 

I was very surprised that Utd appointed him, for the reasons Romey pointed out above, and I wouldnt get your hopes up about him doing much more than competing for the top 4.

[pete0]

Great talent spotter, but awful at nurturing it. Coleman is the luckiest youth to come through at the club, 1st injuries giving him a chance on the wing where he then stagnated before injuries led to his chance at right back. The relentless use of Coleman at right mid was baffling, at this point most clubs would have sacked the manager, the fans knew better than him.

 

There was an article posted on here were Martinez says talented footballers usually don't listen, these are the footballers Moyes can't handle. He'd rather lose a game playing his favourites that don't question him. However he does get the best out of those lacking in talent, but eager to play. Kevin Kilbane being one of the best performers for Everton in the last decade. He doesn't have the patience or people skills for the likes of Rooney, never mind the Drenthe's and AVM's.

 

"You get the naughty boy with real skill, or the down-to-earth boy who wants to listen but who probably hasn't got that edge in his quality…"

 

He also passes the blame on rather than taking responsibilty which is a trait of losers. He constantly blamed the size of the squad, yet didn't change his eleven unless there was an injury and would rather bring in a seasoned pro out of position ahead of someone unproven. Phil Neville playing last season in midfield even though his legs were gone and we had Ross Barkley getting splinters.

 

Worst of all Moyes is capable of getting the team to play great football, but is scared to let them play after x amount of minutes or once we were 1 up. He'd rather play the statistics game like Big Sam.

 

He has a great base, but his risk adverse attitude holds him back. If Moyes was a player with Cristiano Ronaldo's ability he'd still be scared to beat his man and would play it safe with crab passes.

[Hafnia]

Ferguson sees himself in David moyes, Moyes sees himself in Phil Neville... Not literally before all the sniggering children..

 

There is a clear flow as to how these similarities don't exactly mean you are getting quality. It's like Chinese whispers in manager evolution gone shite.

[Cake]

 

what you call a 'proud Unionist' (so proud that the purple-nosed prick claims to be a socialist whilst accepting knighthoods)

 

A1, heartfelt rant (I could feel your pain and disgust) topped off with the comment of 2014, so far. Genius! I can't breathe.....

[Guest Nikica]

Christ you don't like Man Utd! I think that on Redcafe you can be ostracised if you are not constantly praising the club. If you take a cynical and sceptical view towards thing the main 'heads' on there do not like it. To be fair though, prior to this season, why the hell shouldn't a Man Utd fan look on the bright side? We were very lucky to be winning all the time. Fergie was only 3 points away from winning 7 league titles on the bounce before he retired. He got 5/7 in the end.

 

The Welbeck as the new Jesus is kind of popular on there. I can't disagree with that! Not my opinion though. The thing is that United have never really brought a great local striker through the ranks, there was a lot of hope that Welbeck would be that player, he is also a very likeable chap too.

 

Yeah, Fergie has a massive ego, is bloody minded and is often hypocritical. I don't really think that a Ghandi type character would be able to prevail in that kind of competitive environment. I don't really expect guys like Mourinho and Ferguson to be choir boys.

 

Worringly Fergie had previously recommended Sven Erikson (from the Hodgson school) and Martin O'Neil to succeed him previously which kind of shows that he ain't too good at this type of stuff. When you are chosing players you can make mistakes here and there but if you choose the wrong manager then the consequences are far greater.

 

I think that Redcafe is a good site though.

 

Hi mate. I don't know if you're still about, I've just seen your post now (logged on briefly last night but didn't check the thread).

 

First of all, I realise I was a bit antagonistic there, but it isn't anything personal against you, as I say. It's more the hypocrisy of many on that site (although to be fair many football sites are that way inclined, so perhaps my dislike of Man United clouds my judgement there). There are some good posters - I like a lot of the opposition posters, particularly the Germans (whom that moron Pogue disparagingly called 'bundes-bores' the other day, despite the fact that they offer far more to the site than that clown does) and Gio. ItsEssexRob and Alistair are both terrible posters though and little-Englanders to boot. Some of the United posters are good, but there's a huge clique of 'top red' posters which shuts down debate, as I say. I think it's just a Man United thing as the same guys seem fairly affable in the non-football forums. Perhaps football turns us into pricks. I stand by the 'spastic' comment though - that word shouldn't be used so freely on Redcafe or any other site.

 

You have did well, and I always expected you to compete for the title. I'm talking more about the CL, where your fanbase and club tends to whinge every time you are eliminated - even though, for example, Rafael deserved a second yellow in 2010 (although the first was harsh), and Nani's was more of an orange card last year. I'd have given a yellow but you can see why the referee gave red. It's that sort of over the top 'we were robbed' nonsense that I really can't be doing with, and it happens a lot on there. I don't know if you were one of the people propagating this view but I tend to remember the poor posters and you don't stand out, which is a good thing.

 

Just so you know. I don't consider Welbeck rubbish or anything. I think he's fairly average but he shows glimpses of ability. However, the general consensus on there seems to be that he has the build-up play of David Silva - anyone who questions this is attacked. it's a very bizarre thread as Welbeck's link-up play clearly isn't anywhere near as good as they claim. Obviously the homegrown bias.

 

It's true that Ferguson and Mourinho aren't expected to be choir boys, but their 'find any advantage we can get, no matter who we have to abuse in the process' mindset is somewhat classless. And, as I say, great leaders should never be allowed to select their successors.

 

I could rant on but you have been a good sport and didn't throw a tantrum over my comments, so you deserved a placid reply.

 

Addendum: some of the guys I get on with best online are Man United fans, and we have talked about meeting up. So please don't think I'm one of these dicks who hates someone based on the club they support. It's just that Redcafe seems to be full of those 'top red' type fans, and I'm a big believer that shutting down criticism is harmful in life.

 

Take care.

 

A1, heartfelt rant (I could feel your pain and disgust) topped off with the comment of 2014, so far. Genius! I can't breathe.....

Hahaha, thanks mate. I went a bit over the top but Ferguson's political hypocrisy irritates me. Edited February 21, 2014 by Nikica

[Dalziel Kane]

Realize we got two threads underway now which basically cover the same area, but with regards to the topic title at least, I don't believe there's any real hope for the club in question so long as Moyes remains their manager. Sure they've got themselves a decent set of players to choose from, but above all else the problem lies with the manager. When you got a managerial figure who revels in tentative tactics and mundane idealistics, you know there isnt going to be much in the way of end products. Pity really, as despite his often shortcomings, he's a decent individual.

[Matt]

 

I don't think even his most ardent supporters could disagree with that; occasionally it worked, mostly it didn't.

mostly it did, else we wouldnt have gotten to where we were under Moyes.

 

To answer the initial question simply; yes there is hope.

[Hafnia]

mostly it did, else we wouldnt have gotten to where we were under Moyes.

 

To answer the initial question simply; yes there is hope.

 

Unfortunately its the hope that kills you. I hoped that moyes would evolve when he was our manager. I mentioned somewhere that he was 80% of the way to being a world class manager, his inablilty/stubborness to address the 20% that made him mediocre was the frustration.

 

The glass ceiling above our heads, was the glass ceiling above Moyes head.

 

His inability to work with players of the likes of drenthe, VDM, kagawa, barkley, mata etc is a microcosm of his managerial traits. The best managers know how to use the talented players. Average managers prefer to use players they know what to expect from. This is what seperates the winners from the grafters.

[Cornish Steve]

Very poor result tonight in Europe. Not a single shot on goal until the 89th minute. If some are disappointed about Everton not finishing in the top four, just imagine how United fans must feel right now. Out of the league cup (Sunderland), the fa cup (Swansea), little hope of Europe next year, and now being beaten in the champions league by a very average side.

[markjazzbassist]

i can't see moyes lasting past this season after tonight. no januzai in the lineup and RVP blaming tactics and teammates for the loss. there goes the dressing room.