Why are Belgium so ridiculously overrated

[MC11]

I'd have to disagree this time Nik.

 

I think they've got a fantastic squad. Some really talented players.

 

They have probably the best Keeper in Europe this season along with the best CB, they also have one of the best players in the world (on his day) in Hazard. All their players are very talented.

 

What I will say is the majority of their first team blow hot and cold with form.

 

I think if it all clicks they can go very far. It just shows the belgiums have been doing something correctly over the past 15-20 years at grass roots level.

[Mirallas]

Yeah I think overrated is the wrong term. I think you mean overhyped. Belgium shot up the fifa world ranking over the past 3 years like no other country. I think we shot up 50 places. And suddenly we got stars in Spain, Italy, Russia, Germany and especially England. No one is used to considering Belgium a dangerous opponent anymore, but suddenly out of nowhere we're a top footballing country.

 

I think the thought just needs to sink in a bit and then the Belgium hype will come into balance. I refer to my previous comments for how I actually rate the Belgian squad.

[markjazzbassist]

I'd have to disagree this time Nik.

 

I think they've got a fantastic squad. Some really talented players.

 

They have probably the best Keeper in Europe this season along with the best CB, they also have one of the best players in the world (on his day) in Hazard. All their players are very talented.

 

What I will say is the majority of their first team blow hot and cold with form.

 

I think if it all clicks they can go very far. It just shows the belgiums have been doing something correctly over the past 15-20 years at grass roots level.

 

completely agree. i like the look of belgium and think they will make a solid go at it. i think they could even surprise some people and get to a semi-final. great players, young and plenty of confidence, plus courtois is a thing of beauty in the goal, what a keeper for a guy so young.

[Peter H]

I reckon Belgium will be one of the flops of the tournament. I think Germany are overrated too btw. If ever there was a 'hipster's team' it's Germany.

You really are clueless arent you! You pride yourself at not being biased towards british football and that you keep up with international leagues. But you could not be further off the mark with this whole thread. I dont believe that Belgium are the 5th best either but they have a great side. Can beat any team in the world.

 

Was Greece the best team in Europe when they won? Was Denmark when they won? Belgium could win the world cup. They have a better team than England.

 

I think Germany will win it tho.

 

 

Oh and look up the meaning of the word hipster please. Germany as overrated and as a hipsters team is an oxymoron

Edited June 6, 2014 by Peter H

[Romey 1878]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

[Mirallas]

Belgium-Tunisia tonight at 19:45, can be watched legally on http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/matchcenter/mc_voetbal/oefeninterlands/MF_140607_BEL_TUN

 

Unless you can't watch it outside belgium. But there's always... 'ways'.

[MikeO]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

[Romey 1878]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jun/06/belgium-blueprint-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

You've caught the Louis' .

[MikeO]

You've caught the Louis' .

 

Dammit .

[Mirallas]

Origi is playing as CF instead of Lukaku. Origi is this selection's big surprise. He's a 19 year old forward who started playing regularly for Lille OSC this season. Defour is playing too btw.

 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Mirallas

[Mirallas]

The game has been paused

 

[Guest Nikica]

I think Belgium have as much promise as Germany at the last world cup when most of their team were young. If this world cup really brings that Belgium team on, get used to playing another tournament together, they could be favorites for the next Euros.

 

one problem though, their kits are horrible!

 

 

Let's wait and see.

You're right Chile have the home advantage, used to the climate more than Belgium and they do have some quality players but I still think that Belgium will prove people wrong. Hazard was Chelsea's player of the season, he played REALLY well. If he brings that form into the WC then who knows.

 

It will go two ways for Belgium - crash & burn like people say or do really well and manage to get to the QF - SF.

 

That's how I tend to think of it too - they'll either be amazing or shite. I remember Colombia back in 1994 - everyone hyped them and they collapsed. Let's see if the same thing happens again.

As said on paper they have a great squad of players an abundance of individual talent but as with Matt I've rarely seen them play together.

 

Due to the above I can't really predict how well they will do and it could be a tournament to soon considering they are a fairly young side but I do think they will do fairly well.

 

As for comparisons to other sides it's a redundant debate for me as team's always play different when the pressure is on clash of styles and so on its one of those pretty unpredictable events with far to many variables to definitively say one way or the other

 

I did put £10 on them over a year ago at 33/1 as my dark horse knowing the odds would shorted a great deal closer to the tournament so will keep a close eye on them

 

If I was going to put money on the side I think will win it that would be Argentina and I've a feeling out of the European sides expected to do well it will be Spain to flop don't ask me why though!?

 

Good post. Argentina are my favourites too btw - their defence individually and collectively is better than people give it credit for, and Gago tends to play quite well for Argentina in mf. They also have early games in the cooler south-east of Brazil. Given these factors, as well as their attack and the advantage of playing in South America, I think it may all come together for them.

 

I'd have to disagree this time Nik.

 

I think they've got a fantastic squad. Some really talented players.

 

They have probably the best Keeper in Europe this season along with the best CB, they also have one of the best players in the world (on his day) in Hazard. All their players are very talented.

 

What I will say is the majority of their first team blow hot and cold with form.

 

I think if it all clicks they can go very far. It just shows the belgiums have been doing something correctly over the past 15-20 years at grass roots level.

 

Fair enough. As I said I may be wrong - it's just a feeling I have.

Yeah I think overrated is the wrong term. I think you mean overhyped. Belgium shot up the fifa world ranking over the past 3 years like no other country. I think we shot up 50 places. And suddenly we got stars in Spain, Italy, Russia, Germany and especially England. No one is used to considering Belgium a dangerous opponent anymore, but suddenly out of nowhere we're a top footballing country.

 

I think the thought just needs to sink in a bit and then the Belgium hype will come into balance. I refer to my previous comments for how I actually rate the Belgian squad.

 

 

Yep, overhyped is more the term I am looking for. I'm also willing to admit that I might be wrong about Belgium and Germany, unlike the genius I reply to below...

You really are clueless arent you! You pride yourself at not being biased towards british football and that you keep up with international leagues. But you could not be further off the mark with this whole thread. I dont believe that Belgium are the 5th best either but they have a great side. Can beat any team in the world.

 

Was Greece the best team in Europe when they won? Was Denmark when they won? Belgium could win the world cup. They have a better team than England.

 

I think Germany will win it tho.

 

 

Oh and look up the meaning of the word hipster please. Germany as overrated and as a hipsters team is an oxymoron

 

Why do you resort to incendiary comments and condescension simply because someone disagrees with you? I'm not 'wrong', it's an opinion you tit.

 

I've admitted above that 'overhyped' is more the term I am looking for, rather than 'overrated.' All of that is only your opinion too - the fact I disagree doesn't make me clueless - such arrogance. Belgium are better than England - I'm just trying to balance the Belgian hype. I've already said before that I think they'll have far more of a chance in '16 and '18, as those tournaments are in Europe and the Belgians will be more experienced then.

 

I've been on two other football forums and most people liked me as a poster. The only people who didn't tended to be the clueless, insecure muppets...these days I tend to avoid forums because of the minority (like yourself) who throw their toys out of the pram and become abusive. I've probably forgotten more about football than you've ever learned. You'd probably have called me clueless when I said Italy would beat Germany in the last Euros. If you want clueless then go to Redcafe or talk to some of the premfaces who think the PL is the bestest thing eva. Or how about the people who think Ronaldo single-handedly beat your lot in the playoffs - totally overlooking the fact that the goals were classic team goals, not solo goals? Now all of that is genuinely clueless. OTOH, not really rating Germany and Belgium as highly as their reputations would suggest is more than reasonable, as neither team has proved anything. To be honest you seem like the typical bandwagon jumper I've seen around - wanking over Belgium and the German national team - two big bandwagons, the latter of which has been going since the 2010 World Cup. Germany constantly disappoint when it counts, and given their injuries as well as the fact that some of their games are 1pm kick-offs in the NE of Brazil (where it is 'inhumane' to play at that time, not my words) I can see them running out of gas later in the tournament.

 

Furthermore, you call me clueless then commit the rookie mistake of arguing via outliers! Denmark and Greece were upsets - you can't build a case on anomalies, otherwise you could argue for any mid-level teams (such as Switzerland or Ecuador) in this World Cup. Just because the odd upset happens doesn't make it credible to argue for a team like Belgium. Those were also European tournaments, consisting of 8 and 16 teams. This tournament OTOH is in South America and consists of 4 times the number of teams in Euro 92 and twice as many as Euro 2004. You clearly haven't thought this through because your logic is simply awful. I can't believe you have the audacity to call me clueless after coming up with shit like that. Terrible manner of debating.

 

I know what a hipster is - the point is that (ironically) being a hipster has become cool, as have Germany. Germany tend to be loved by people who are sick of or bored by Spain. I have seen it often.

 

How about I go through your posts, pick out the bits I disagree with and call you clueless as a result?

 

Lots of people agree with me that Belgium aren't as good as being claimed, but they are a good team. However, they're not a champion team (at least not yet). Belgium have zero chance of winning the World Cup (like about 25 of the other teams, including Colombia whom I rate highly). When was the last time anyone outside of a traditional footballing power won the World Cup? It simply doesn't happen - you sound like soneone who's very young and doesn't realise that World Cups tend to be won by tournament teams such as Brazil, Germany, Italy, Argentina etc (don't say Spain weren't a superpower prior to 2010, they were a much bigger footballing nation than Belgium). Belgium are inexperienced, and we will see how Germany do. I do think both can make the semis if they surprise me.

 

Next time argue in a civil manner rather than attacking me. You deserve this aggressive reply. Next time you attack me at least produce some convincing arguments. All you've done is moan about how clueless I am and stupidly point to two outliers

 

Furthermore, why do I have a reputation on here when the likes of like this guy constantly attacks me for my opinions? Perhaps I am too forceful in my views, but it's really unfair that I am attacked by immature people simply because I hold some unpopular opinions.

 

Peter H - to reiterate, don't call me 'clueless' then argue like a rookie by building a case on outliers. Hilarious. Keep being a sheep mate.

 

Edit: forgot that you're the guy who said my posts are too long given it's the twitter era. Why am I not surprised that someone like you frowns on going into detail and talks like a twitter football fan? Serious question here - how old are you?

 

You saying I am clueless reflects far more poorly on you than it does me.

 

Edit 2: I don't even know why I let antagonistic types like you provoke me. So I should pretend to rate Belgium and Germany more highly than I do simply to avoid being called clueless by a snivelling little weasel like you? Get fucked pal.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

Btw, if Belgium and/or Germany underperform in this tournament I expect you to acknowledge that you were wrong, as will I in the inverse situation. But you saying that Belgium can win the World Cup is the most clueless statement in the entire thread. I doubt even their biggest admirers genuinely think they can win it - no chance. They might make the semis though.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Nikica

[Hafnia]

I'm having a £10 e/w bet on Chile. Argentina will win it, aguero top goalscorer

[Guest Nikica]

I'm having a £10 e/w bet on Chile. Argentina will win it, aguero top goalscorer

 

Yeah, I think Aguero/Argentina too.

 

See, this is the thing. I rate Colombia and Chile very highly, but it's still asking a lot for either to win it simply because of the traditional way World Cups work. That's what this Peter H guy doesn't understand about Belgium. Teams like Colombia, Chile and Belgium have never been able to win the tournament. Even teams who are average or rubbish now but made finals in the past were far better at that time e.g. Hungary, Sweden. Those two were amongst the best teams in the world when they made their finals - the former probably were the best.

 

I just don't see how anyone can genuinely think the three dark horses can actually win it. Dark horses rarely win tournaments really.

 

I think the winner will come from Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Germany or France. France aren't as good as Chile or maybe even Belgium, but pedigree counts for much more than people realise in these tournaments. Holland would normally be in the list but not this year.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Nikica

[Guest Nikica]

By the way Peter, the irony of this comment:

 

"You pride yourself at not being biased towards british football and that you keep up with international leagues But you could not be further off the mark with this whole thread"

 

is that most of the Belgian squad play in the PL, and that's a factor in why I think they're overrated. I wouldn't have to watch much foreign football anyway (which I do watch) if I was to rate Belgium. The PL style of football doesn't translate well to international football. Ya clueless mug. I predicted all of Germany's losses against Spain in 2008 and 2010 and Italy in 2012. How can I be clueless when they keep proving me right by losing when it counts eh?

 

Grow up you stupid little boy and realise that I'm not wrong as my thoughts are more than reasonable - I might be right, I might be wrong, but there's plenty of people who agree about Belgium and Germany. You're now on my ignore list so I won't be replying to any more of your tripe - you're really quite thick as your Denmark, Belgium, Greece comparison proved - totally illogical for the reasons I gave. I'm not wasting my time on antagonistic shit like you.

 

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/belgium-can-they-win-it.390776/page-2

 

I wouldn't read that thread as plenty of people are slating Belgium. You might start crying for mummy. Twat.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Nikica

[Sibdane]

I'm having a £10 e/w bet on Chile. Argentina will win it, aguero top goalscorer

 

The past few days I've been leaning towards Argentina also... well, as second place.

 

We all know the USA will win it all.

[Mirallas]

I think Argentina will disappoint. I bet good old Spain will win it once again.

[Guest Nikica]

Argentina might disappoint, they haven't played well in recent WCs (other than 2006 when they were the best team in the tournament and Pekerman cost them by subbing off Riquelme vs Germany).

 

Just realised that Cotto said Kompany was the best CB in Europe this season. Can't agree - the likes of Godin, Miranda, Pepe and Ramos were definitely superior to him this season. Man City were dodgy defensively this season and Demichelis was constantly covering for Kompany (such as the Barca game where Demichelis was sent off, which was actually Kompany's fault). Kompany also almost cost City the title in that Liverpool game. I used to rate him very highly but now I see I was possibly falling for the hype - he's never performed well in the CL and has never played in an international tournament. He's actually unproven outside of English football. And even if I am wrong, Vermaelen is just a terrible defender - one of those who's great on the ball but can't defend for shit. Kompany is still a good defender but I'm not buying that he's a world-class CB.

 

This was posted about Kompany on the excellent tactical website, zonalmarking.net. Apologies for the fucked up colouring:

 

"Kompany’s mistakes aren’t as rare as many suggest. The only surprise about this error was that it was committed inside his own area – that’s the Belgian’s strong zone – he’s usually more vulnerable high up the pitch.

On his day Kompany is an excellent defender, but there haven’t been many of those days since City won the title two years ago, when the Belgian was the best centre-back in Europe. Kompany remains a fine player, but he’s committed almost every kind of defensive error in the last year or so – vulnerable to pace, capable of scoring crazy own goals, mistiming tackles, getting spun high up the pitch, jumping into tackles two-footed, losing his man at set-pieces, getting caught in possession. English football seems to have a blind spot to his failings, too: one newspaper column declared him the player of the season on the morning of this game, another gave him 8/10 for this display where, again, he was responsible for all three goals. Imagine the reaction had Demichelis cost City three goals in three different ways…"

 

With all due respect, I genuinely feel some of this overhyping of Belgium has to do with the fact that people see their players every week in the PL. I don't even think Hazard's a genuinely world-class player yet either, tbh. They have lots of good-very good players, but very few world beaters. Courtois is probably the only player in the squad who's possibly top three in his position in the world.

 

Getting to the QFs would represent a successful tournament for them. Still baffled that they are fifth favourites though - lots of money to be made in lay betting there.

 

Please note that I don't hate Belgium, or their players - I simply think they've been hyped up beyond all reason.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Nikica

[rubecula]

Any team in the competition COULD win it, realistically though and in my heart of hearts I can see Belgium getting to the quarter finals and given a decent draw even the semi's.

 

I suspect they will do better than many feel they will and possibly better than England.

[Guest Nikica]

Just read this from a Belgian guy on Redcafe:

"Only people who never actually watch us play would consider us anything even near a dark horse. Maybe we'll actually turn into something like that when all of our talented players are at their peak, but right now people are making us into something we're not. People who expect too much are going to be very disappointed."

[Formby]

 

Germany constantly disappoint when it counts,

 

 

Constantly? I think that's a very strange thing to say. They have a phenomenal record in big tournaments. The German mentality is very strong. The amount of games over the years where they've come from behind / beaten so-called superior teams is testimony to that. If only England had such a record. It has become a bit of a cliché, but it's true: you never write the Germans off.

Edited June 11, 2014 by formby

[Sibdane]

Have to agree. They're won three World Cups (been to the final a total of 7 times) and three Euros. They also have four 3rd place finishes.

 

You can't win them all.

 

I would be thrilled if the USA had a record like that (obviously we wouldn't have euros, but CONCACAF).

[Guest Nikica]

 

Constantly? I think that's a very strange thing to say. They have a phenomenal record in big tournaments. The German mentality is very strong. The amount of games over the years where they've come from behind / beaten so-called superior teams is testimony to that. If only England had such a record. It has become a bit of a cliché, but it's true: you never write the Germans off.

 

I am clearly talking about the recent generation, which has failed at the semi and the final stage in the last three tournaments. That should have been clear - why do people twist things on here? It's very easy to quote one sentence and eliminate the context of my post, isn't it?

 

Obviously Germany are the second best European team of all time after Italy, when it comes to the World Cup, as well as the the best in the Euros.

 

By the way, this German generation is much different to teams of the past - it's more snazzy and about technique and fluid play (a result of the changes in German football after they hit rock bottom in 2000). The stereotype of them being efficient (which was true in the past) doesn't really apply to this team. Less gifted German teams from the past would probably have had the tenacity to win one of the two semis or the Euro 08 final which the current generation lost. As good as Spain were in 2008 and 2010, they weren't unbeatable. Although Italy historically have the Indian sign over Germany anyway so past German teams may have lost in Euro '12 regardless.

 

The mentality of the current team isn't as strong as their teams of the past.

 

Btw, I accidentally gave you a red arrow (I meant to give green as your comments about past teams do still hold true). Sorry about that.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Nikica

[Formby]

 

I am clearly talking about the recent generation, which has failed at the semi and the final stage in the last three tournaments. That should have been clear - why do people twist things on here? It's very easy to quote one sentence and eliminate the context of my post, isn't it?

 

Obviously Germany are the second best European team of all time after Italy, when it comes to the World Cup, as well as the the best in the Euros.

 

By the way, this German generation is much different to teams of the past - it's more snazzy and about technique and fluid play (a result of the changes in German football after they hit rock bottom in 2000). The stereotype of them being efficient (which was true in the past) doesn't really apply to this team. Less gifted German teams from the past would probably have had the tenacity to win one of the two semis or the Euro 08 final which the current generation lost. As good as Spain were in 2008 and 2010, they weren't unbeatable. Although Italy historically have the Indian sign over Germany anyway so past German teams may have lost in Euro '12 regardless.

 

The mentality of the current team isn't as strong as their teams of the past.

 

Btw, I accidentally gave you a red arrow (I meant to give green as your comments about past teams do still hold true). Sorry about that.

 

I don't think it was clear you were talking about the recent generation. You said 'constantly' and didn't specify how far back that referred to. I am not sure how you qualify 'recent', either.

Germany's last three WC showings have been 2nd (2002), 3rd (2006), 3rd (2010). Not too shoddy. Their last two Euro showings were 2nd (2008) and 3rd (2012). Again, not too shoddy. As for mentality, I am not sure how you gauge that. Players like Muller and Schweinsteiger and Klose and Podolski look like pretty tough competitors to me.

[Guest Nikica]

 

I don't think it was clear you were talking about the recent generation. You said 'constantly' and didn't specify how far back that referred to. I am not sure how you qualify 'recent', either.

Germany's last three WC showings have been 2nd (2002), 3rd (2006), 3rd (2010). Not too shoddy. Their last two Euro showings were 2nd (2008) and 3rd (2012). Again, not too shoddy. As for mentality, I am not sure how you gauge that. Players like Muller and Schweinsteiger and Klose and Podolski look like pretty tough competitors to me.

 

Well, it's pretty obvious that I am talking about the recent generation as they're the ones playing. I don't want to have to get into a habit of having to qualify every little statement I make - it's very time-consuming, and my posts are lengthy enough as it is.

 

Their showings were mostly okay, yes. It isn't easy to make the semis and the final of tournaments, and they weren't fancied in 2008. However, in 2010 they became the flavour of the month for their attacking football (although ironically parked the bus against 'defensive' Spain) and in 2012 they seemed to be every bangwagon jumper's favourite. I was attacked on another site at the time for saying they would disappoint (and compared to the way people were sycophantically drooling over them, an unexpected semi loss is both okay/decent by normal standards but also disappointing for their biggest admirers). It's all relative to expectations.

 

I've noticed that this current German team is loved by people who only really watch football when tournaments are on. Of course, there is a sizeable group (including yourself and most German lovers on here) who rate them highly too, but in addition to your group Germany seem loved by people who don't follow football that much.

 

This German team is very good, but I don't think they're exceptional and I certainly don't think they were as good a team overall as Spain in 2010 (they could have beat Spain, but the Spaniards were still the better overall and more balanced team). The hype around Germany (and Belgium) seems to be out of control.

 

I'd rate their chances more in this tournament if Gundogan and Reus were fit. For me that's their best midfielder and best wide attacker missing. There are also major questions over the defence.

 

It's easy to look at placings, but Germany were actually a poor team in 2002, and it was a poor tournament. It's a widely held belief that they vastly overachieved and were put in their place by Brazil in the final. 2006 they were on home soil and weren't really that strong either.

 

I admit that this group of Germans is very talented for the most part (although a few of their players are pretty overrated), but I just don't think they have the mental strength to actually do it. They're still major contenders, and they may well win the tournament, but that's what a prediciton is - it can be either good or bad. I just think they've been being overhyped for a few years now.

 

Podolski probably won't start Schweinsteiger is riddled with injuries and well on his way to being past it (great a few years ago though) and Klose is very old and only starting because Low has a real hatred for Kiessling. They will help the mood in the dressing room though. They're tough guys but they also have some players who could be considered mentally weak. Of course, a possible counter-argument to this is the two German teams making the CL Final a year ago, composed mainly of German players.

 

I apologise for the misunderstanding and hope you now see that I agree with you on past German teams i.e. pre 2000, before they hit rock bottom and then their resurgence. And I apologise for the snarky tone of my reply - it just gets tiring when people take things out of context.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Nikica

[Formby]

 

Well, it's pretty obvious that I am talking about the recent generation as they're the ones playing. I don't want to have to get into a habit of having to qualify every little statement I make - it's very time-consuming, and my posts are lengthy enough as it is.

 

Their showings were mostly okay, yes. It isn't easy to make the semis and the final of tournaments, and they weren't fancied in 2008. However, in 2010 they became the flavour of the month for their attacking football (although ironically parked the bus against 'defensive' Spain) and in 2012 they seemed to be every bangwagon jumper's favourite. I was attacked on another site at the time for saying they would disappoint (and compared to the way people were sycophantically drooling over them, an unexpected semi loss is both okay/decent by normal standards but also disappointing for their biggest admirers). It's all relative to expectations.

 

I've noticed that this current German team is loved by people who only really watch football when tournaments are on. Of course, there is a sizeable group (including yourself and most German lovers on here) who rate them highly too, but in addition to your group Germany seem loved by people who don't follow football that much.

 

This German team is very good, but I don't think they're exceptional and I certainly don't think they were as good a team overall as Spain in 2010 (they could have beat Spain, but the Spaniards were still the better overall and more balanced team). The hype around Germany (and Belgium) seems to be out of control.

 

I'd rate their chances more in this tournament if Gundogan and Reus were fit. For me that's their best midfielder and best wide attacker missing. There are also major questions over the defence.

 

It's easy to look at placings, but Germany were actually a poor team in 2002, and it was a poor tournament. It's a widely held belief that they vastly overachieved and were put in their place by Brazil in the final. 2006 they were on home soil and weren't really that strong either.

 

I admit that this group of Germans is very talented for the most part (although a few of their players are pretty overrated), but I just don't think they have the mental strength to actually do it. They're still major contenders, and they may well win the tournament, but that's what a prediciton is - it can be either good or bad. I just think they've been being overhyped for a few years now.

 

Podolski probably won't start Schweinsteiger is riddled with injuries and well on his way to being past it (great a few years ago though) and Klose is very old and only starting because Low has a real hatred for Kiessling. They will help the mood in the dressing room though. They're tough guys but they also have some players who could be considered mentally weak. Of course, a possible counter-argument to this is the two German teams making the CL Final a year ago, composed mainly of German players.

 

I apologise for the misunderstanding and hope you now see that I agree with you on past German teams i.e. pre 2000, before they hit rock bottom and then their resurgence. And I apologise for the snarky tone of my reply - it just gets tiring when people take things out of context.

 

Rate them too highly? Where did I say that?

 

It wasn't obvious what you were talking about: hence, my reply.

 

I think you wildly exaggerate Brazil's performance in 2002. Germany had much the better of it until Kahn's gaffe in the second half. Ballack and Schneider were brilliant that day. If they were overachieving, that surely scuppers your argument about them constantly disappointing.

Edited June 12, 2014 by formby

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27827569

[Romey 1878]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27827569

Pretty much the same article me and Mike posted earlier isn't it?

[Matt]

Pretty much the same article me and Mike posted earlier isn't it?

was only published today, where did you put your post?