Hafnia Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Full back gets beaten by a winger and centre half can come over, Centre half gets beaten by a striker and it's down to the keeper. Centre half just requires that little bit of big game acclimatisation. Galloway and stones partnership in a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I think one thing that the signing of Galloway shows is that Martinez can pick a good defender, despite what some think. And he did want to sign Stones. I don't believe that Galloway is playing LB so he can learn the job of a LB for future reference, it's simply down to him getting experience at the top level in a position where any mistakes he makes during the learning process are less likely to be punished, or are more easily cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Our own centre half Lescott played at left back for long enough, and Stones played right back at Barnsley and here until he moved to centre half. Not because they were learning the position it was just that both could play the positions equally well. Edited October 1, 2015 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I think one thing that the signing of Galloway shows is that Martinez can pick a good defender, despite what some think. And he did want to sign Stones. Let's hope we see more of the youngsters coming through like this! I don't believe that Galloway is playing LB so he can learn the job of a LB for future reference, it's simply down to him getting experience at the top level in a position where any mistakes he makes during the learning process are less likely to be punished, or are more easily cleared up. Someone somewhere (great research from me here posted that RM said he wanted Galloway to play 40 (or so) games at full back before he played at centre back, which seems ludicrous to me. I totally agree with you in that if the opportunity is there for him to play and gain experience in a slightly less stressful position (not exactly what you said I know) then great, but to say he needs a full season out of position I don't get it. I know that this isn't what you were saying and I haven't seen the quote from RM myself, so I might just have wasted the last 5 minutes completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Rio started as a defensive midfielder and Campbell started as a striker. Sometimes youngsters are used out of position to get them first team experience. Think MC has pretty much answered this for me but.. Big difference between a player starting out in a position and then developing into a better player in another position, happens all the time. Campbell and Rio weren't recognised centre backs at that stage of their careers But Galloway is a centre back playing left back. Also wouldn't use Ardilles managerial skills to proof a point, they weren't flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Someone somewhere (great research from me here posted that RM said he wanted Galloway to play 40 (or so) games at full back before he played at centre back, which seems ludicrous to me. I totally agree with you in that if the opportunity is there for him to play and gain experience in a slightly less stressful position (not exactly what you said I know) then great, but to say he needs a full season out of position I don't get it. I know that this isn't what you were saying and I haven't seen the quote from RM myself, so I might just have wasted the last 5 minutes completely. I think it was me that posted that from Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Someone somewhere (great research from me here posted that RM said he wanted Galloway to play 40 (or so) games at full back before he played at centre back, which seems ludicrous to me. I totally agree with you in that if the opportunity is there for him to play and gain experience in a slightly less stressful position (not exactly what you said I know) then great, but to say he needs a full season out of position I don't get it. I know that this isn't what you were saying and I haven't seen the quote from RM myself, so I might just have wasted the last 5 minutes completely. the alternative is to not play him at left back and put him on the bench to cover for Jags and Stones. I would sooner he uses this opportunity of left back to get game experience. He looked like a fish out of water against Man City and used that experience positively. 40 games isn't that many - basically RM is saying that at some stage next season he will use him as centre half. When Baines is fit he will likely get games as centre half for under 21's. Gerrard used to play full back for Liverpool as a lad learning his trade and when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 the alternative is to not play him at left back and put him on the bench to cover for Jags and Stones. I would sooner he uses this opportunity of left back to get game experience. He looked like a fish out of water against Man City and used that experience positively. 40 games isn't that many - basically RM is saying that at some stage next season he will use him as centre half. When Baines is fit he will likely get games as centre half for under 21's. Gerrard used to play full back for Liverpool as a lad learning his trade and when required. Key here is "as and when required". I reiterate I haven't seen the quote from RM but it sounded like he won't get played at CB until he's done his time at full back. Playing devils advocate, does that mean should the opportunity arise this season he won't play at centre back because he "isn't experienced enough" at full back? How many games did Stone play at full back before he became first choice centre half? I'm not saying Galloway shouldn't get game time at full back, I'm saying if the quote was he won't play centre back until he's had 40 games at full back, that's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Deacs I think its important to look at the experiences of players who promise so much at the start and have a confidence wrecker against a class opponent. They need an experienced head alongside them. At this moment Jags is schooling Stones, are you suggesting we drop Jags, Stones or bench Funes to bring in Galloway in at centre half? If he is getting his match time in against premier league opponents then he is learning - some people are getting way way way ahead of this whole Galloway and Stones partnership - its very early days for the kid. Confidence and and a calm head is key at centre half - 1 mistake can change all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Carlos Cafu Lizarasu Cole all players from that era, but i take your point. Perhaps though if we had a really solid back line we would not need two holding type players and could be more aggressive? I've argued this so many times. We have the two holders to cover a full back each. The season we finished 5th was built on the back of Baines and Coleman being at the other end of the pitch while Barry and McCarthy covered for them. Coleman even thanked McCarthy for making his game so much better by covering for him when he won the player of the year award. In that same season, if Liverpool deployed two holders instead of just one im convinced they would have won the league. If England used two in the world cup Baines and Johnson (I think it was Johnson) wouldnt have been so exposed on the counter attack in every game. When we had Carsley in there back in the Moyes days we didnt use both full backs to attack as we do now. Even Chelsea when they won the league last year, one holding player, but full backs only attack one at a time to keep a back three. I do think one of the reasons we havent conceeded many goals yet this season is due to our full backs not being as attacking as the Baines Coleman combo normally is. About players playing in other positions, as has already been said, i think its more about getting them on the pitch. Its very rare for teenagers to play in the first team in defence, theres loads who get a chance up front where there is minimal risk. I think the 40/50 games idea is more about being used to being on the pitch as much as learning another position. Edited October 1, 2015 by StevO Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Deacs I think its important to look at the experiences of players who promise so much at the start and have a confidence wrecker against a class opponent. They need an experienced head alongside them. At this moment Jags is schooling Stones, are you suggesting we drop Jags, Stones or bench Funes to bring in Galloway in at centre half? If he is getting his match time in against premier league opponents then he is learning - some people are getting way way way ahead of this whole Galloway and Stones partnership - its very early days for the kid. Confidence and and a calm head is key at centre half - 1 mistake can change all that. I'm certainly not suggesting that we break up Jags and Stones, who I think are doing a good job this year and I believe are the best centre backs at the club. I'm not saying Galloway shouldn't play full back, we've needed him to play there and he's done a great job. (Just checked Wiki and he has less than 30 first team appearances in his career so far, which shows how well he's done this year) What I am saying is, should Jags or Stones pick up an injury (and Baines is back fit) Galloway will feel aggrieved to be sat on the bench. Cliches I know but You only gain experience through playing and the best lessons are learnt by your mistakes. If their good enough their old enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Just for the record I think Galloway makes a better fullback than John Stones, and he has played that position for England efc1111 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I agree Dunc, Stones looks lost at full back for me. Waste of his talents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Stones draws a blank when he hits the 18 yard box of the opposition - not a clue. Galloway looks like he's played there all his life. Cracking little player. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Cracking little player. One thing we can all agree on. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efc1111 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Found the article about Galloway playing 50 games at left back: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/everton-fc-starlet-brendan-galloway-9822498 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for posting that at least I know what I'm arguing about now:). I still don't agree with the concept though. The quote is "I think Brendon is ready to play LB at this level. After 50 games he could play CB. If you are a centre back considered good enough for the first team at left back than you are good enough for the team as a centre back. Put aside whether or not he's better than the players in those positions and whether he would actually get a game in that position, to say he needs 50 games ar LB before playing CB is rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for posting that at least I know what I'm arguing about now:). I still don't agree with the concept though. The quote is "I think Brendon is ready to play LB at this level. After 50 games he could play CB. If you are a centre back considered good enough for the first team at left back than you are good enough for the team as a centre back. Put aside whether or not he's better than the players in those positions and whether he would actually get a game in that position, to say he needs 50 games ar LB before playing CB is rubbish. In simple terms there is far less risk and permutations to consider as a full back versus centre half. As a full back you have the touchline as your friend, as a centre half you have exposed space either side of you - far more factors need to be considered as a centre half versus full back. As a full back the centre halves direct you - as a centre half you direct the full backs. If Galloway has big game experience as a full back this is a brilliant way to introduce him to life as a centre half - he will know what a centre half needs to do for him as a player so that when he becomes a full back he will know what he needs to do to look after his full backs. You can't expect a young lad to pit his wits against the worlds best at centre half and make the right decisions It is no different to Ross playing in an advanced midfield role - when he moves deeper he will have a greater knowledge of what he needs to do. markjazzbassist, Matt and Deacs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for posting that at least I know what I'm arguing about now:). I still don't agree with the concept though. The quote is "I think Brendon is ready to play LB at this level. After 50 games he could play CB. If you are a centre back considered good enough for the first team at left back than you are good enough for the team as a centre back. Put aside whether or not he's better than the players in those positions and whether he would actually get a game in that position, to say he needs 50 games ar LB before playing CB is rubbish. Its risk versus reward. But the closer a player is to his own goal the greater the risk. He can get comfortable on the pitch from 20-30 yards further away than where he will play mst of his career. Look at Dier at Spurs, played full back and now playing in midfield. He'll be a centre half though. Not many teenagers play at centre half in the premier league, just too much risk. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Stones draws a blank when he hits the 18 yard box of the opposition - not a clue. Galloway looks like he's played there all his life. Cracking little player. Where were you a little while ago when I was trying to make this argument? Galloway seems very composed in attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) In simple terms there is far less risk and permutations to consider as a full back versus centre half. As a full back you have the touchline as your friend, as a centre half you have exposed space either side of you - far more factors need to be considered as a centre half versus full back. As a full back the centre halves direct you - as a centre half you direct the full backs. If Galloway has big game experience as a full back this is a brilliant way to introduce him to life as a centre half - he will know what a centre half needs to do for him as a player so that when he becomes a full back he will know what he needs to do to look after his full backs. You can't expect a young lad to pit his wits against the worlds best at centre half and make the right decisions It is no different to Ross playing in an advanced midfield role - when he moves deeper he will have a greater knowledge of what he needs to do. thank you Haf very much. I didn't understand why this would make sense but you have made sense of it. Never thought of it like that with the touchline essentially giving them only 1 side to defend against. As a CB you have the whole field. Makes complete sense i love this place some times. Edited October 2, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/11/report-manchester-united-could-make-january-move-for-evertons-br/? Didn't take them long to find someone else to try and sell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-brendan-galloways-rise-10230609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForEverton2 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/11/report-manchester-united-could-make-january-move-for-evertons-br/? Didn't take them long to find someone else to try and sell! A thousand time, 'NO'! Maybe a loan, but he's with us and has shown amazing promise. Give em' the Stones treatment and tell them to piss off. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-brendan-galloways-rise-10230609 Great read. I think Galloway has 'utility' written all over him across the back line. I think he'll make good cover for Jags, Stones, or Funes Mori if nescessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Does anyone still think he doesn't warrant a new contract ? Yes. Nothing's changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForEverton2 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Does anyone still think he doesn't warrant a new contract ? Ask that question at the end of the campaign. If you mean 'give him a new contract in order to increase his sell point' then I can understand, but I hope he's not plucked away, and he strikes me more of the 'grounded in playing football than making tons of money' type, no? It will be interesting to watch how Martniez handles Baines' reintroduction into the squad. I can't see it being like the Howard, Robles scenario from last season where, as this time, Baines slots right back in as if he never left. Galloway is playing for keeps and I hope Baines is up to the challenge of fighting his way back into the side. All the better for inter-competition. If Everton were to offer a new contract it would be quite hefty- I imagine. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 what is his contract? for me any youth player who gets to participate in the first team should have a "good" appearance fee. Example:- £3k a week plus £10k appearance money. It will motivate them to make that next step - for me the lad is good enough to be cover for Baines which is great (we now have garbutt, oviedo and brendan as left back cover) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 what is his contract? for me any youth player who gets to participate in the first team should have a "good" appearance fee. Example:- £3k a week plus £10k appearance money. It will motivate them to make that next step - for me the lad is good enough to be cover for Baines which is great (we now have garbutt, oviedo and brendan as left back cover) yeah id rather see him at CB sooner than later though. i think oviedo is gone after this year, so it will be baines and garbutt like it should be. well have stones jags, mori, galloway at CB, and browning can go on loan. Still need a RB backup though, must be addressed this summer. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'd be giving him a new contract, but simply to get a 50m release clause in there! United rumoured to be after him, get him secured. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 We could feasibly have a back four of England internationals in the future. Holgate/browning, stones,Galloway,garbutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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