Has Martinez got it wrong?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I was only responding to a certain someone highlighting a particular player to change things AGAIN!!! How many league game can you tell me, whereby he has single handedly won us the game. I will give you one example whereby he has single handedly cost us three points.

 

Mirallas and Lukaku ( the 2 players Haf has it in for) have accounted for 17 of our last 23 goals so its unfair to start accusing him of costing us points because of his penalty miss without acknowledging the points he has won us

[Paddock]

It's funny how quickly sides are taken and the blame game is started.

We can all point to certain games and moments that may or may not have cost us... Missed penalties, fumbled shots, dropped catches and poor finishing you could go on and on.

But the fact remains most teams suffer from these moments not just us.

We have been poor from the moment Arsenal pegged us back in August, from that moment it was if we didn't believe anymore.

I honestly don't know why but it is most certainly a combination of all of the reasons often posted about on this site.

Martinez isn't responsible for the individual errors but he is responsible for our sterile play by rigidly sticking to his principles regardless.

I don't have a problem with Mirallas stepping up to take the penalty, the fault with that lay with Jagielka who as our captain should have stepped in and made the decision, but he strangely slipped into the background at a time he was needed.

That incident is symptomatic of the lack of leadership and direction afflicting our club at present from the top to bottom and in my opinion is the main reason we are where we are.

Yep, the leadership comment is where I think the problem lies. He doesn't seem to have it in him to berate his players.

 

I get the positivity thing but there comes a time when things are that bad the positive outlook becomes almost laughable and is why people are falling out with him.

 

His decision to drop Robles and bring back a piss poor Howard was absolutely shocking it shows alack ofback bone from him. He should have told Howard that he hadn't been playing well before the injury and Robles had been playing excellently so he would be on the bench for the forseeable but no he brings him back and BANG the defence startsleaking goals again.

 

Italso looks like there was a problem with Eto'o that he clearly couldn't handle and for whatever that reason was the club has had to move him on to get him out the way.

 

Add to this him constantly picking certain players to the pointwhere he is shuffling his pack so much a quarter of the team are playing out of position just to accomodate him not dropping certain individuals.

 

I just get the impression the players get no doscipline drilled into them so they just basically do what the fuck they like (to a degree) I have no doubt that they are professionals so go about their job in a professional manner but they seem to not have that fear factor that Moyes had,.

 

We also don't look anywhere near as fit as we did when Moyes had us. Sloppy pre season, sloppy training, sloppy match preparation, not practising set pieces etc all amounts to sloppiness on the pitch.

 

All this falls at Martinez front door.

[johnh]

There is an article in Telegraph Sport today, primarily about cricket. It said 'Eoin Morgan (England cricket captain) on the radio sounding increasingly like a Dublin Roberto Martinez as he picks out the positives from the latest 9 wickets defeat.

Sounds like our Roberto is getting a bit of a reputation.

[Sherpa]

Yep, the leadership comment is where I think the problem lies. He doesn't seem to have it in him to berate his players.

 

I get the positivity thing but there comes a time when things are that bad the positive outlook becomes almost laughable and is why people are falling out with him.

 

His decision to drop Robles and bring back a piss poor Howard was absolutely shocking it shows alack ofback bone from him. He should have told Howard that he hadn't been playing well before the injury and Robles had been playing excellently so he would be on the bench for the forseeable but no he brings him back and BANG the defence startsleaking goals again.

 

Italso looks like there was a problem with Eto'o that he clearly couldn't handle and for whatever that reason was the club has had to move him on to get him out the way.

 

Add to this him constantly picking certain players to the pointwhere he is shuffling his pack so much a quarter of the team are playing out of position just to accomodate him not dropping certain individuals.

 

I just get the impression the players get no doscipline drilled into them so they just basically do what the fuck they like (to a degree) I have no doubt that they are professionals so go about their job in a professional manner but they seem to not have that fear factor that Moyes had,.

 

We also don't look anywhere near as fit as we did when Moyes had us. Sloppy pre season, sloppy training, sloppy match preparation, not practising set pieces etc all amounts to sloppiness on the pitch.

 

All this falls at Martinez front door.

Agree with all you said, he is completely out of his depth, and the one thing he was renowned for, attacking and inventive football is this season conspicuous by its absence.

I look at where we are with our squad and then look at Southampton who were shorn of most of their best players and are fighting for Europe!

It shows what a tactically astute manager can do for you.

That's why we need to get shut of Martinez and soon, I don't believe we will go down but this has been an absolute waste of a season and should have been much more.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sherpa

[johnh]

Just watched Bournemouth v Fulham. Fulham were poor and lost 5 - 1 (at home). Bournemouth are a passing side but unlike Everton, their passes are quick and hit hard and 90% are forward. The players are running all the time, no ambling about, and there is always someone in space. I hope Martinez was watching.

[Blue 250]

Just watched Bournemouth v Fulham. Fulham were poor and lost 5 - 1 (at home). Bournemouth are a passing side but unlike Everton, their passes are quick and hit hard and 90% are forward. The players are running all the time, no ambling about, and there is always someone in space. I hope Martinez was watching.

 

If Martinez was watching, he would probably pick out the positives of a 5-1 home defeat.........like, we scored a goal and at least they didn't score 6......Oh well, if we didn't laugh, we'd cry !

[Guest rusty747]

If this doesn't look like a fallen leader so completely out of his element, I don't know what does. That picture, to me, says "I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, and people have found me out."

 

I think the blame is not all his, but there you go.

 

I have to agree. He looks like a guy who has run out of ideas.

[Hegemon92]

Article is spot on.

 

Yeah. This article won me over and I think that this season ruined Martinez for me. Although I still think Martinez might have potential as a good manager in the future, it is not at Everton, and probably not in the Premier League.

 

As for Kenwright, I think he spoiled Martinez with that deal over the summer. We went in too fast to buy Lukaku and Barry. I had heard as early as September that Martinez was using the Europa League as an auditioning platform for his next job. I refused to believe it at the time, but now it is starting to make sense. I just want to be proud of my team again.

 

But, if not Martinez, then who?

[Sherpa]

Bilic for me, did a great job for Croatia and currently doing well at Besiktas.

Could also attract the likes of Kovacic and Perisic as well.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Sherpa

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/royal-blue-8791302?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11456662/Roberto-Martinez-keeps-the-faith-at-Everton-and-eyes-Europa-League-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

 

 

 

"Joel has shown he is ready to step into No1 but Tim’s had a very strong season, he’s very experienced, and with a very important responsibility in the dressing-room. You give someone [Howard] a starting point, and the No2 needs to fight to overcome that. The good thing is we have a No 1 and No 2 who are both reliable"

 

Is he on fucking drugs?

Edited March 7, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Paddock]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11456662/Roberto-Martinez-keeps-the-faith-at-Everton-and-eyes-Europa-League-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

 

 

 

"Joel has shown he is ready to step into No1 but Tims had a very strong season, hes very experienced, and with a very important responsibility in the dressing-room. You give someone [Howard] a starting point, and the No2 needs to fight to overcome that. The good thing is we have a No 1 and No 2 who are both reliable"

 

Is he on fucking drugs?

This is the exact type of thing he comes out with that makes me think we're doomed with him in charge.

 

I get he wont slag him publicly but he also has no need to come out with utter shit like this either.

[Hafnia]

If journos asking questions were to retort according to the answers then Martinez would get roasted.

 

Howard has been shite, yes some were premature in their criticism, but ultimately been proven right in due course.

 

Goal keepers deserve time, not dropped at the first hint. I stated all along that Robles looked to just need a bit of a run. He got it and after being great was dropped. Fuckin stupid.

[StevO]

If this doesn't look like a fallen leader so completely out of his element, I don't know what does. That picture, to me, says "I have absolutely no idea what the hell I'm doing, and people have found me out."

 

I think the blame is not all his, but there you go.

 

No, it says "I can't get that piece of bacon out of my back teeth, I told Ruth I wanted my bacon crispy!"

[StevO]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/11456662/Roberto-Martinez-keeps-the-faith-at-Everton-and-eyes-Europa-League-prize-during-difficult-second-season.html

 

 

 

"Joel has shown he is ready to step into No1 but Tim’s had a very strong season, he’s very experienced, and with a very important responsibility in the dressing-room. You give someone [Howard] a starting point, and the No2 needs to fight to overcome that. The good thing is we have a No 1 and No 2 who are both reliable"

 

Is he on fucking drugs?

I was fuming reading that. A few months back Van Gaal was asked why Falcao wasn't getting a game at United. No messing with his answer, he just said "he isn't playing well enough to be in my team. When his form improves he will get a chance again." There is nothing wrong with saying a player isn't playing well, when they play shit they know. But when they play shit and they hear a sound bite like he's had a good season, the other players must be wondering what the required standard of performance is. When you are shit you don't need telling you're shit, you know, but don't tell him he played well. Sort your head out Roberto, we expect better, and we expect not to be lied to about it.

[Romey 1878]

I was fuming reading that. A few months back Van Gaal was asked why Falcao wasn't getting a game at United. No messing with his answer, he just said "he isn't playing well enough to be in my team. When his form improves he will get a chance again." There is nothing wrong with saying a player isn't playing well, when they play shit they know. But when they play shit and they hear a sound bite like he's had a good season, the other players must be wondering what the required standard of performance is. When you are shit you don't need telling you're shit, you know, but don't tell him he played well. Sort your head out Roberto, we expect better, and we expect not to be lied to about it.

 

This is why I can't stand his interviews any more. He comes out with downright lies when there's no need.

[Newty82]

And has Van Gaal speaking very publicly about Falcao ' s poor form/performance ' s helped to improve Falcao? Nope.

 

Can anyone name an instance where the manager of any team has come out and publicly blasted individuals and improved the situation?

 

Most recently, I remember Harry Redknapp going crazy about that Adel Taarabt. Calling him fat, lazy, overpaid. Didn't do much good.

 

I get that Martinez interviews can be frustrating. They don't sound right when things are going poorly. But I'm not sure that blasting the team publicly would do any good.

 

I think calling him a lier is a bit harsh. He believes in 'positive thinking'...I don't think his intention is to lie to Evertonians.

[Romey 1878]

And has Van Gaal speaking very publicly about Falcao ' s poor form/performance ' s helped to improve Falcao? Nope.

 

Can anyone name an instance where the manager of any team has come out and publicly blasted individuals and improved the situation?

 

Most recently, I remember Harry Redknapp going crazy about that Adel Taarabt. Calling him fat, lazy, overpaid. Didn't do much good.

 

I get that Martinez interviews can be frustrating. They don't sound right when things are going poorly. But I'm not sure that blasting the team publicly would do any good.

 

I think calling him a lier is a bit harsh. He believes in 'positive thinking'...I don't think his intention is to lie to Evertonians.

 

No one's saying he should be blasting players at all. This is the point I keep making, and it keeps getting ignored - to be honest you DO NOT have to lay into players.

 

So, saying Howard has had a very strong season is not a lie? That's not positive thinking, it's complete and utter bullshit.

[Newty82]

 

No one's saying he should be blasting players at all. This is the point I keep making, and it keeps getting ignored - to be honest you DO NOT have to lay into players.

 

So, saying Howard has had a very strong season is not a lie? That's not positive thinking, it's complete and utter bullshit.

Are you sure no one has said it? No one at all? I'm not so sure.

 

And as I said, and I'll say again, I don't think his intention is to lie to Evertonians.

[Romey 1878]

Are you sure no one has said it? No one at all? I'm not so sure.

 

And as I said, and I'll say again, I don't think his intention is to lie to Evertonians.

Ok then, I haven't said it and Steve hasn't. To just say a player hasn't been good enough, or hasn't reached their usual standards, is ok. It's not blasting a player.

 

What do you think his intention is? Because what he has come out with is a lie. And if he genuinely believes what he's said then we're in even bigger trouble than I thought. Tim's a big boy, he's played at the top for a long time, he's paid a lot of money, I don't think he needs to be shielded like a child. Results are what matter, the club is what matters, not the feelings of a goalkeeper that hasn't been good enough.

 

I don't want this to be a witch hunt for Howard, because my problem is with Martinez.

[Paddock]

And has Van Gaal speaking very publicly about Falcao ' s poor form/performance ' s helped to improve Falcao? Nope.

 

Can anyone name an instance where the manager of any team has come out and publicly blasted individuals and improved the situation?

 

Most recently, I remember Harry Redknapp going crazy about that Adel Taarabt. Calling him fat, lazy, overpaid. Didn't do much good.

 

I get that Martinez interviews can be frustrating. They don't sound right when things are going poorly. But I'm not sure that blasting the team publicly would do any good.

 

I think calling him a lier is a bit harsh. He believes in 'positive thinking'...I don't think his intention is to lie to Evertonians.

Nobody is saying he should blast him but to come out and say Howard has had a strong season is just plain fucking stupid and it makes me think he thinks the fans are stupid.

 

Doeshe really believe fans will accept him coming out with statements like that, it's a kick in the balls to an already suffering faithful.

 

He doesn't HAVE to say it just like he doesn't HAVE to slate him.

 

The mans a dickhead and he is treating the fans like they're dickheads.

[Newty82]

Ok then, I haven't said it and Steve hasn't. To just say a player hasn't been good enough, or hasn't reached their usual standards, is ok. It's not blasting a player.

 

What do you think his intention is? Because what he has come out with is a lie. And if he genuinely believes what he's said then we're in even bigger trouble than I thought. Tim's a big boy, he's played at the top for a long time, he's paid a lot of money, I don't think he needs to be shielded like a child. Results are what matter, the club is what matters, not the feelings of a goalkeeper that hasn't been good enough.

 

I don't want this to be a witch hunt for Howard, because my problem is with Martinez.

Yeah, I'm not really wanting it to veer towards Howard alone. But clearly he was asked quite a specific question about him and Robles. And answered in his style.

 

In terms of what I think his intention is, well to be positive! That's how he has been raised by his parents. Before I get jumped on, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying his intention is not to lie to Evertonians. And I think it's quite important to determine the intention behind a comment.

 

What he says doesn't make easy reading just now. No doubt about that.

 

But you are right about how he could say it. That could be said about the whole team. But would you trust a journalist to write it in exactly that way and manner?

 

Mind, I doubt many players or managers pay much attention to the media anyway!!!

[StevO]

Newly if he wanted to be positive try "Tim hasn't been at the level we are used to from him, he's been one of the best in the league for a number of years, and he has made some mistakes this season that have cost us. Tim knows that too, but I have faith in him and I'm sure we will see the best of him again very soon." Honest and positive, yet still critical. It doesn't have to be a lie.

 

My point about Falcao was that LVG was asked the question, he didn't go looking to slag him off, but he was honest. You can't tell fans or players they are doing well when they have been so poor. It will make people question your own ability.

 

I'd be very surprised if Roberto didn't pay attention to the media, they've treated him very well over the years. I think if we had a less favourable manager the media might be talking about sacking him.

Edited March 8, 2015 by StevO

[Hafnia]

Here's the issue.

 

Everton fans have not had much to boast about but we are known as being knowledgable, dignified and passionate.

 

The crux of it is that he is taking the piss out of us, intentionally or not. I find him either deluded or patronising. Not sure which. Either way it is not the way to be right now.

 

When you are stripped bare to the bollocks you are wasting your time trying to hide your modesty, go and find a pair of trousers.

 

He is acting like he ain't bothered, he is. We know he is.

 

Thing is people who wanted periera for whatever reason will all be saying "I didn't want Martinez in the first place, now I'm proven right". Football management is extremely volatile and to a degree requires a great deal of luck. It's a very momentum driven job, look at allardyce, curbishley, redknapp, they have been at both ends of the spectrum. Yet they are the same person.

 

The reality is this, as soon as a manager runs out of ideas with the current players it's time to change the manager or the players.

 

Why do people get addicted to football manager? Cos they want to be right, they believe they know best. It's the same on forums, and I'm one of them.

 

Now is the time we all look at Everton the club, not personal point scoring of vendettas. That goes for the manager, players and fans. Far too much sulky egotistical bullshit going on right now.

 

Get the points in, look at what has gone wrong and make the right changes.

[StevO]

Cos they want to be right, they believe they know best. It's the same on forums, and I'm one of them.

 

We never noticed Haf :-)

[Newty82]

Newly if he wanted to be positive try "Tim hasn't been at the level we are used to from him, he's been one of the best in the league for a number of years, and he has made some mistakes this season that have cost us. Tim knows that too, but I have faith in him and I'm sure we will see the best of him again very soon." Honest and positive, yet still critical. It doesn't have to be a lie.

 

My point about Falcao was that LVG was asked the question, he didn't go looking to slag him off, but he was honest. You can't tell fans or players they are doing well when they have been so poor. It will make people question your own ability.

 

I'd be very surprised if Roberto didn't pay attention to the media, they've treated him very well over the years. I think if we had a less favourable manager the media might be talking about sacking him.

Er, 'Newty' to you

 

Ok, I shouldn't have used the word 'blast'. Too strong a word. It wasn't my intention to create a picture of public humiliation!!!

 

It's just his way isn't it? I'm not defending it (I don't think! Or my intention is not to defend!!!), I just understand that that's his way. I'm sure I've said it doesn't make easy reading??? I just think it's to strong to call him a lier.

 

And my point about LVG and Falcao was has it made any difference to Falcao performances? No.

 

Anyway, not much else I can say on it now. I'm going to fall into the trap of being on here too long, over thinking my comments, repeating myself, talking shit...and I've got decorating to do!!!

[Hafnia]

We never noticed Haf :-)

At least I admit it! ;-)

[StevO]

Bloody autocorrect!

I know Falcao hasn't improved, but at least their fans aren't questioning their managers sanity over it.

I agree it's just his way, and I like his positivity but I think it has a time and place. Right now I think we need a stronger outlook, show a bit of intolerance to poor performance. Sometimes a bit of fear can help, I don't think confusion can though. But we both know he won't change that record anytime soon.

[StevO]

At least I admit it! ;-)

You've got me there.

 

Last time I agree with Haf on here.

[Hafnia]

You've got me there.

 

Last time I agree with Haf on here.

You may agree withe on this one. Would LVG persist with Howard and lukaku?

 

Personally I don't. Barkley would have been dropped and told to lose a few pound.

 

In fact, Howard, lukaku, Barkley all look weighty. Lukaku pisses sweat after 5 minutes, Howard can't get off the deck. Barkleys height and frame is masking the fact that he's a good 4kg overweight.

 

We lost our fitness coach to Newcastle and ok what's happened.