Has Martinez got it wrong?

[Romey 1878]

We need to play 2 wingers and stop playing Naismith or Barkley out wide. We're far too easy to play against as it is as we've only got width down one flank. Last season was built on our success down the flanks, we've got enough natural wingers to replicate this now - a must for me.

This all the fucking way.

[pete0]

I was looking forward to the balance of Mirallas and lennon, but that would be too easy...

[c1982]

[Lowensda]

Also read his post game interview notes. He's claimed that Lukaku was tired and not fresh...so with Kone on the bench, why didn't he bring him on?

 

The guy is worrying me.

[Brett Angel]

bobby is the future.

[Shukes]

Was it really the managers fault that a striker missed 9 times?

To be fair if he is training them to miss then we need to sack him.

[Sibdane]

Was it really the managers fault that a striker missed 9 times?

To be fair if he is training them to miss then we need to sack him.

 

Right. The players are the ones who got it wrong this time around. The chances were there; some of the players' heads were not.

[London Blue]

When we don't play 2 proper wingers we lack cohesion and lack balance.

 

If the rest of this season is to give us anything it must be a settled couple of systems and a settled spine of the team.

 

We know Mirallas is off, as is Distin, Alcaraz, Kone, Pienaar, as well as loan signings Lennon and Atsu and if we are lucky McGeady. Use the time to identify 3 wingers, a centre-back, a keeper and a striker for next season.

 

I still trust Martinez and believe he can take us forward.

[Shukes]

Agree London. Use the rest of the season to work out next seasons system. We're not gonna get relegated but we have a chance in the Europa league.

 

Use the league to sort us out Ready for a push next season.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Shukes

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Was it really the managers fault that a striker missed 9 times?

To be fair if he is training them to miss then we need to sack him.

 

No but it is the managers fault that the team has no shape and that half the side are playing out of position

[Shukes]

But didn't we create enough chances to easily won the game Dunc?

Sometimes you have to look at the players on the pitch and ask....

 

Why wasn't that on target?

Why didn't you just pick that ball up?

Why did you palm that back into a dangerous area?

Why wasn't that on target?

What wasn't that on target?

Are you boots tied up?

 

I see what you mean about shape and I get that. But that shape created enough chances to win that game comfortably.

Some of those misses and mistakes were beyond explaining.

That's not managerial...that's ability and concentration.

[Lowensda]

Martinez's Everton have won 6 Premier League games after 26 matches. Walter Smith's side of 01/02 had won 7.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

But didn't we create enough chances to easily won the game Dunc?

Sometimes you have to look at the players on the pitch and ask....

 

Why wasn't that on target?

Why didn't you just pick that ball up?

Why did you palm that back into a dangerous area?

Why wasn't that on target?

What wasn't that on target?

Are you boots tied up?

 

I see what you mean about shape and I get that. But that shape created enough chances to win that game comfortably.

Some of those misses and mistakes were beyond explaining.

That's not managerial...that's ability and concentration.

 

If they were isolated incidents or from players who had been mostly faultless all season I could agree however Howard has been making those same mistakes all season and Martinez keeps picking him. Robles has given him a viable option, he was growing in confidence and getting better with each game, he keeps 3 clean sheets and is rewarded with a place on the bench as soon as Howard is fit. What must Robles have been thinking watching that?

 

The buck stops with Martinez

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Martinez's Everton have won 6 Premier League games after 26 matches. Walter Smith's side of 01/02 had won 7.

 

That shows just how shite we are

[Shukes]

 

If they were isolated incidents or from players who had been mostly faultless all season I could agree however Howard has been making those same mistakes all season and Martinez keeps picking him. Robles has given him a viable option, he was growing in confidence and getting better with each game, he keeps 3 clean sheets and is rewarded with a place on the bench as soon as Howard is fit. What must Robles have been thinking watching that?

 

The buck stops with Martinez

That's fair enough and a strong argument.

 

Frustration isn't a strong enough word at this minute.

[markjazzbassist]

Also read his post game interview notes. He's claimed that Lukaku was tired and not fresh...so with Kone on the bench, why didn't he bring him on?

 

The guy is worrying me.

And everyone slated me for picking kone in my lineup for the match. Fickle bunch you are.

[Lowensda]

Where did I slate you? Show me.

[markjazzbassist]

Where did I slate you? Show me.

Sorry not you, others saying lukaku just had a hat trick you don't pull him off. Apparently I right. He was tired. I said kone is better at holding up play and linking up agaisnt parked bus teams. Lukaku showed that he isn't. Fuming. We pay the lad 6m and he rides the pine, put him In the game or sell him in January. Why have players if we're not going to use them???,

[seve]

it does not matter how many chances we missed we should have won 1 0 apart from one clowns mistakes

and yes you can blame one man when every game he makes a mistake that costs a goal.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Sorry not you, others saying lukaku just had a hat trick you don't pull him off. Apparently I right. He was tired. I said kone is better at holding up play and linking up agaisnt parked bus teams. Lukaku showed that he isn't. Fuming. We pay the lad 6m and he rides the pine, put him In the game or sell him in January. Why have players if we're not going to use them???,

 

I don't think its fair to say Leicester parked the bus. I thought they came and played football and got forward at every opportunity, we were just shite

[chalkpie]

The '13-'14 EFC played against Young Boys the other day, kicked some arse, and gave us hope.

 

The '14-'15 EFC played against Leicester today and were back to the status quo, which means too much meandering bullshit, terrible goalkeeping, and sloppy/non-existent finishes.

 

Worrying, frustrated, sad, anger, dismay, and utter disbelief pretty much covers it for me at the moment.

Edited February 23, 2015 by chalkpie

[Kant]

Maybe I'm optimistic, maybe it goes with the moment of the day, but I think that this Premier League season will be not particularly good and that the club are now focusing on the EL. I would use the season to evaluate the season and get ready for what should be an important transfer window next summer. To be realistic, there are better teams out there in the EL to win it than us and in the PL there are worse teams to fear for relegation.

 

 

Long term thinking, it's quite clear what needs to be done.

 

Groom Barkley (who has all the potential to become the next big thing, but has to figure it out, especially his decision making, and I'm not really sure he'll make it to the next level)

 

Groom Lukaku (who has the potential to become a world class striker if he manages to find consistency and composure. Again, he's 21, and footballers develop massively, not all of them were superstars aged 18. Lukaku reminds me of a young Fernando Llorente because of the potential and the inconsistency, but he's much better than the Spaniard was when he was young.)

Acquire a new core. Slowly but steadily, Distin and Osman have been replaced by Stones and Besic/Naismith. There will be more tough work to do, and by tough work I mean to either replace a solid ageing performer for a young lad with potential making mistakes or seeing the old performer do his thing and watch the effects of time make him become unreliable. Next in line: Baines, Howard, Jags.

 

Sell for value and replace Mirallas, neither will be no easy feat. Hopefully ship McGeady out somewhere too.

 

Find a reliable keeper. If Martinez trusts Robles then it's the right time to play him, as Howard's time seems to be finished here. If he does not trust Robles, then play him to see what he can do. But what Martinez does now not not only does not make sense, it's also costing points.

 

And finally, find an assistant that takes over the set pieces defensive strategy and overall defending strategy!

[Paddock]

I can't believe people aren't worried by just how utterly shit we are. Look at the side he inherited, it hadn't finished below 8th place for years. Look at the squad he inherited, one full of internationals with some class players that were together and had excellent chemistry, look at the money he's been given, more in one single window than any other Everton manager in history.. Fortress Goodison? Teams muat be rubbing their hands to play here this season.

 

Yet despite all this we're flirting with relegation. If I hear one more person mention we're still in Europa I'll go fucking insane. SO WHAT!!! We're underperforming, the squad harmony is in tatters, his subs are fucking bizarre (and thats being kind) his team selections are shocking, he's playing players out of position, his outright refusal to drop his senior pros when they are performing terribly but he has no problems dropping a squad player who is playing out of his skin (Robles for Howard Besic for Barry) his constant inabilty to be able to accept we are in the shite, his persistent bigging us up as playing better than we are it's fucking shocking how anyone can't see this.

 

Then people start going on about record points totals, last seasons league performance etc.. I am telling you know for fact that that was gained on the back of Moyes side, ideals, work ethics and team chemistry. That's now been trained out of them and we're seeing the real Martinez. Anyboy see any similarities between us and Wigan? Because I can. He has 5 times better a squad here than he did at Wigan yet his team are in a remarkabley similar position.

He'll ruin this side. I've been saying it for ages and I still atand by what I say. I just hope this board wakes up to it before it's too late.

[Hafnia]

I can't believe people aren't worried by just how utterly shit we are. Look at the side he inherited, it hadn't finished below 8th place for years. Look at the squad he inherited, one full of internationals with some class players that were together and had excellent chemistry, look at the money he's been given, more in one single window than any other Everton manager in history.. Fortress Goodison? Teams muat be rubbing their hands to play here this season.

 

Yet despite all this we're flirting with relegation. If I hear one more person mention we're still in Europa I'll go fucking insane. SO WHAT!!! We're underperforming, the squad harmony is in tatters, his subs are fucking bizarre (and thats being kind) his team selections are shocking, he's playing players out of position, his outright refusal to drop his senior pros when they are performing terribly but he has no problems dropping a squad player who is playing out of his skin (Robles for Howard Besic for Barry) his constant inabilty to be able to accept we are in the shite, his persistent bigging us up as playing better than we are it's fucking shocking how anyone can't see this.

 

Then people start going on about record points totals, last seasons league performance etc.. I am telling you know for fact that that was gained on the back of Moyes side, ideals, work ethics and team chemistry. That's now been trained out of them and we're seeing the real Martinez. Anyboy see any similarities between us and Wigan? Because I can. He has 5 times better a squad here than he did at Wigan yet his team are in a remarkabley similar position.

He'll ruin this side. I've been saying it for ages and I still atand by what I say. I just hope this board wakes up to it before it's too late.

 

what will the board do - Sack him? NO CHANCE. He is sitting on a good contract that we will have to honour and then get another manager in with no doubt some form of comp to existing club and then a decent contract.

 

The board can't make decisions, they are found wanting in every aspect of decision making and they are reliant on the manager in charge to get the revenue in.

 

I've said all along the only way we are going to be run professionally is with a new owner, CEO and them going therough the club with a fine tooth comb.

 

With regards to Martinez transfer budget £28m went on one player and I didn't see too many moan about ir when he went and splashed it out. I did - as I seen us wasting £15m that could have gone strengthening elsewhere.

 

The realty is that we bought a player to replace Jelavic who just isn't any better. Jelavic would have had 3-4 yesterday.

[Chach]

The realty is that we bought a player to replace Jelavic who just isn't any better. Jelavic would have had 3-4 yesterday.

 

As much as I agree we may have paid over the odds, you've drawn a very long bow with that comment.

[Kant]

The realty is that we bought a player to replace Jelavic who just isn't any better. Jelavic would have had 3-4 yesterday.

 

Well, while I believe Lukaku was too expensive (even more when the budget is tight), comparing to other strikers moved recently:

 

1.- Alvaro Morata (aged 22, 1992, 6ft 3). Moved for €20M. Goals for Real Madrid in 2013-2014: 8 in 26 apps (9/34 all comps). Goals for Juventus 2014-2015: 6 in 19 (8/27 all comps).

2.- Romelu Lukaku (aged 21, 1993, 6ft 3). Moved for £28m. League Goals for Everton in 2013-2014: 15 in 31 apps (16/33 total). Goals for Everton in 2014-2015: 7 in 25 (13/34 total).

3.- Wilfried Bony (aged 26, 1988, 6ft). Moved for £28. League Goals for Swansea in 2013-2014: 16 in 34 apps (25/48 all comps). Goals for Swansea in 2014-2015: 9 in 20 apps (9/22 total).

 

Of all three, for me, Lukaku is the better prospect, the youngest one and the most proven one. Furthermore, he is not going to the ACON, and he played for the club last season. Lazy scouting maybe, and we can argue if it was a wise move to spend £28m on one player when the team has clearly other areas to strengthen -that is a big strategic mistake IMO-, but I am not ready to give up on Lukaku in his first season here. Other strikers have developed late, he is only 21, he'll be here in the long run, and for what I have seen this season, he is developing.

 

Did he miss three seaters yesterday? True. And he also scored one. He has shown a very few glimpses of superstar potential.

 

Without turning this into a Lukaku debate, keepers and strikers are the most important part of the XI, and I'd point to the other side of the pitch if Martinez plans to start fixing issues any day soon.

[Hafnia]

 

Well, while I believe Lukaku was too expensive (even more when the budget is tight), comparing to other strikers moved recently:

 

1.- Alvaro Morata (aged 22, 1992, 6ft 3). Moved for €20M. Goals for Real Madrid in 2013-2014: 8 in 26 apps (9/34 all comps). Goals for Juventus 2014-2015: 6 in 19 (8/27 all comps).

2.- Romelu Lukaku (aged 21, 1993, 6ft 3). Moved for £28m. League Goals for Everton in 2013-2014: 15 in 31 apps (16/33 total). Goals for Everton in 2014-2015: 7 in 25 (13/34 total).

3.- Wilfried Bony (aged 26, 1988, 6ft). Moved for £28. League Goals for Swansea in 2013-2014: 16 in 34 apps (25/48 all comps). Goals for Swansea in 2014-2015: 9 in 20 apps (9/22 total).

 

Of all three, for me, Lukaku is the better prospect, the youngest one and the most proven one. Furthermore, he is not going to the ACON, and he played for the club last season. Lazy scouting maybe, and we can argue if it was a wise move to spend £28m on one player when the team has clearly other areas to strengthen -that is a big strategic mistake IMO-, but I am not ready to give up on Lukaku in his first season here. Other strikers have developed late, he is only 21, he'll be here in the long run, and for what I have seen this season, he is developing.

 

Did he miss three seaters yesterday? True. And he also scored one. He has shown a very few glimpses of superstar potential.

 

Without turning this into a Lukaku debate, keepers and strikers are the most important part of the XI, and I'd point to the other side of the pitch if Martinez plans to start fixing issues any day soon.

 

Was an OG yesterday.

 

I don't just look at stats, yes I think they are useful.

 

I look at the player, he looks bloody clumsy is the best way I can describe him. He isn't the most co-ordinated I have seen, in fact pretty far down the list. Sometimes he looks ok though. I just don't think he is gonna be the player we need him to be.

 

I actually think the striker we need will probably emerge from the under 21's.

[markjazzbassist]

It's a sad day, I have joined the doom and gloom crew. I'll finally say it, Roberto has it wrong. We only play 4231, no light of the day of 352 or 433 Anymore, one dimensional sideways football, favorite players over talent. But I agree with haf, can't fire him because the prospects out there are dire. If we could get slaven bilic is say go ahead but BK has to get a fire lit under RM ass.

 

I agree with paddock on the fortress goodison too, this used to be a bitch of a stadium to play in, now it's like that away side is at home. Fans booing our own player, yelling at Ross Barkley our brightest prospect, and we pass sideways and backwards with a bunch of over 32 years old wash ups. We've become a bottom side and its pissed me off.

[seve]

I think if he does not use whats available to him and continues to put us in danger at the bottom end then he needs to go

unlike teams around us he has good alternatives but if hes stubborn enough to stay with the same old then hes not the manager I thought he was.

[Sherpa]

New to the forum as a member but been following for several yrs and am a season ticket holder in the Paddock.

On the Lukaku issue the problem as I see it is that he likes the ball at his feet, facing goal so he can run at defences... That is when he is at his most effective, example ....Arsenal last season.

Unfortunately Roberto plays him as a hold up striker and he just doesn't have the tools for this despite his obvious physical attributes.

I know all the arguments he is only 21..... He can't trap a bag of cement etc... I actually believe he will live up to his undoubted potential and prove to be a good signing for us.

 

Howard; he has cost us at least 10 goals this season with silly mistakes, dropping catches, miscommunication with his defenders and fumbling shots. He should be dropped for Robles who after a shaky start did look very good indeed and should never have been dropped to the bench.

 

I am also frustrated at our shape, lack of movement and desire to win the ball back when we lose it... why we constantly play 4:2:3:1 is beyond me! We need width and players playing in their preferred positions not central mids playing wide.

 

This all points to a stubborn manager who is either unable or unwilling to change, I like Roberto and really want him to do well but even his press conferences are now starting to grate me.

In his defence though, yesterday he made the double change early in the second half which did improve us and lead to us going one up only for us to be undone by more mistakes from Howard, who should not have been playing!.

 

I don't belive it is time for a managerial change at present as I genuinely believe we will be ok, I do think though the summer will be a time to reflect on what has gone wrong and maybe then change, I am just fearful Roberto could be following the same clueless route that Mike Walker took!!