Sherpa Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I far from a doom and gloom merchant and normally a glass half full person, it just frustrates that the best squad we have had in many a year is floundering. I understand all the arguments ... second season syndrome etc, I would accept that if there was some fight in us. Admittedly there were some positives, but the negatives far outweigh those at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I love your optimism and really hope it happens but in my nearly 40yrs supporting this great club I have rarely felt so down. I know we have had poor teams and seasons in that time, but after a great 13/14 and some good acquisitions pre season I felt that this may be a great one for us. I just get the feeling Roberto knows he is in over his head at present.... Hope I am way off the mark. So you've been doing this nearly as long as me and you remember the really scary relegation seasons. I've felt so much lower than this on many occasions over the years when we've been far worse than this season and had far worse players. The core for a very good team is there; this season is a write-off for sure (barring Europa miracles) but hopefully Bob will learn and we'll move forward; I'm not giving up on him yet. Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I love your optimism and really hope it happens but in my nearly 40yrs supporting this great club I have rarely felt so down. I know we have had poor teams and seasons in that time, but after a great 13/14 and some good acquisitions pre season I felt that this may be a great one for us. I just get the feeling Roberto knows he is in over his head at present.... Hope I am way off the mark. i remember the Mike Walker team. This is where my optimism comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The next three games will tell us we're we are going. I just wish we could translate our European play to the League, I know we probably get more time and space in Europe, it's just the difference in the speed of our passing and movement that I just can't get my head around. Edited February 24, 2015 by Sherpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Agreed but some of those teams were shit and didn't have half the talent this one does, which is what makes it so frustrating. Agreed also; but that's my point. This is a frustrating season rather than an "end of the world" one like we've seen before. Matt and Chach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I agree Mike I just hope this season is the real transitional period for Martinez as last season there were definite elements of what Moyes did still lingering which is why I think we did so well a mixture of what both men are about I genuinely don't think we will get relegated luckily there are some piss poor sides probably one or two more than you usually get each season I just hope he learns from it all and builds in the area's we've been falling seriously short. I think a top ten finish is a big ask now there's a decent gap between us Stoke and Newcastle unless we have a massive turn in fortunes but we will likely stay pretty much where we currently are and have a decent run in Europe.... who knows we seem a different animal in the Europa I clear out and new additions are desperately needed along with a solid and well thought out pre season Edited February 25, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veedublin Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I don't think we'll get relegated, but when you need a last-second OG to steal a draw from the last-place team, things do have to change. They start with the manager. Players have good and bad games, and the manager has to pay attention, and then act responsibly and objectively. I get that he brought back Howard, as he was the starting GK. Like in the NFL, you see it all the time. The starter gets injured, and the rookie comes in and does a really good job. But when the starter's healthy again, it's his job. It's part of the deal. His job to lose, yada yada. However, with TH's past couple performances, it's clear that he's lost whatever step he's had, especially after LC. Indefensible. HE HAS LOST HIS JOB. He needs to lose his position to Robles. But, unless TH volunteers himself to sit, Martinez needs to show some spine to sit Howard himself. Watching this team, I feel supremely constipated. The bloating, the distended middle, the excruciating pain in the anus. We need to poop out something huge. Human-sized. Edited February 25, 2015 by veedublin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-no-issue-everton-8722747? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-no-issue-everton-8722747? Not got a problem with the substitutions which actually helped the balance of the team and our attacking play..... It's his constant faith in a shot goalkeeper which is irritating and baffling me ?? !! Edited February 26, 2015 by Sherpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Again - subject to the Eto rumours being true - is he bound by loyalty to some senior players who showed him support in a tough period? My guess is that he is. My thoughts on it "if true" - is that I understand to a point, but that point is diminishimng with every poor Barry or Howard performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Haf so you're saying during the eto'o mutiny, barry Howard Lukaku and the like stuck with him so he's backing them? Makes sense. Those 3 are first names on the sheet. I'm guessing the off and on play of mirallas means he was with eto'o. Not sure who else though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Haf so you're saying during the eto'o mutiny, barry Howard Lukaku and the like stuck with him so he's backing them? Makes sense. Those 3 are first names on the sheet. I'm guessing the off and on play of mirallas means he was with eto'o. Not sure who else though. Ok, without tempering the juvenile "as if that reall happened - prove it" element. I'm going to state the source of the story was confirmed as a player - it will come out, absolutely no doubt. But it won't whilst players are still at the club who let themselves down and are repairing relations or looking to leave. There isn't a big number of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Haf so you're saying during the eto'o mutiny, barry Howard Lukaku and the like stuck with him so he's backing them? Makes sense. Those 3 are first names on the sheet. I'm guessing the off and on play of mirallas means he was with eto'o. Not sure who else though. Lol at the "Eto" mutiny. I was told by someone inside that he was a bit of a shit stirrer but "mutiny" is way wide of the mark. He was a bit of a loose cannon who thought he could do as he pleased but he never tried to force any players to go on strike or go against Martinez he was just a touch blase about training and following orders which in turn disrupted the harmony of the squad. A bit like "well if he isn't listening or following orders I'll be half arsed about it myself" All this mutiny shite is ridiculous Eto'o is not the reason we're shit this season Martinez and his team selections, tactics and training is. Eto'o was ok so I heard but just wasn't sold on the Everton way hence he was shipped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Haf so you're saying during the eto'o mutiny, barry Howard Lukaku and the like stuck with him so he's backing them? Makes sense. Those 3 are first names on the sheet. I'm guessing the off and on play of mirallas means he was with eto'o. Not sure who else though. Not really, they were the first names on the list before Eto'o turned up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not really, they were the first names on the list before Eto'o turned up anyway. Precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Not really, they were the first names on the list before Eto'o turned up anyway. We signed Eto in August and its fair to say that they had not been that bad up till that point. Its been as the season wore on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 We signed Eto in August and its fair to say that they had not been that bad up till that point. Its been as the season wore on. My point was that the "mutiny" and them sticking with Martniez has no impact with them being the first names on the team sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Lol at the "Eto" mutiny. I was told by someone inside that he was a bit of a shit stirrer but "mutiny" is way wide of the mark. He was a bit of a loose cannon who thought he could do as he pleased but he never tried to force any players to go on strike or go against Martinez he was just a touch blase about training and following orders which in turn disrupted the harmony of the squad. A bit like "well if he isn't listening or following orders I'll be half arsed about it myself" All this mutiny shite is ridiculous Eto'o is not the reason we're shit this season Martinez and his team selections, tactics and training is. Eto'o was ok so I heard but just wasn't sold on the Everton way hence he was shipped out. Agreed I don't think the mutiny is the reason we suck, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. I do believe it could have added to our problems, but it's not the be all end all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veedublin Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Watching the two recent commanding performances against Young Boys (or any match in Europe, for that matter), I think this thread probably needs to be retitled: "Has Martinez got it wrong in the Premier League?" I know it's not a question for which there is an easy, conclusive, obvious answer, but how can we say Martinez doesn't know what he's doing, when it seems to really come down to the performance of the players. When they play well, pass cleanly, make smart decisions, we are a completely different team. We look like bosses in Europe, but shite in the League. So, why the devil is that? Is it Martinez? Is it that the League has us spooked? Do we employ a different style in Europe? Why the Jekyll-Hyde thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBlue Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Watching the two recent commanding performances against Young Boys (or any match in Europe, for that matter), I think this thread probably needs to be retitled: "Has Martinez got it wrong in the Premier League?" I know it's not a question for which there is an easy, conclusive, obvious answer, but how can we say Martinez doesn't know what he's doing, when it seems to really come down to the performance of the players. When they play well, pass cleanly, make smart decisions, we are a completely different team. We look like bosses in Europe, but shite in the League. So, why the devil is that? Is it Martinez? Is it that the League has us spooked? Do we employ a different style in Europe? Why the Jekyll-Hyde thing? I think it's two different playing styles, not so much ours but due to the competition. Premier League we were worked out long ago, much less time on the ball etc. In Europe we're also a bit of an unknown quantity and having more time on the ball, not been closed down further up the field means that we have more time to make the smart decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 If RM enjoys watching the lads passing a bunch and then giving the ball away, then he has it very very right and is a genius in that respect. Otherwise, I think its clear as day this guy has it wrong. 28 points is the proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2325771/stubborn-martinez-not-making-best-use-of-evertons-strengths? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Undoubtedly Arsenal are stronger going forward than they are at the back. Martinez has picked a team against them that plays right to their strengths. A side like Arsenal can find ways to break you down and score. We needed t be at them attacking with pace and pressuring them high up the pitch. Not sat back waiting for them to pick us apart. Someone else made the 8 men behind the ball comment. I don't have a problem with that so much if 4 of them are prepared to break/join the attack quickly bug that wasn't the case. Not sure what is going through his head at the moment when he picks his teams though. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Haven't had the time to see many full games this season but caught the Young Boys and Arsenal ones this week. I was always a big fan of Martinez and like him as a person but he has rapidly become as entrenched as Moyes was (if that's possible) and that's causing us definite problems. You either lock down the centre and play two wingers with overlapping full backs - traditional 4-4-2 - play to a target man and a more skilful man off (the way the great Everton side of the 80's did and the formula SAF used at Man Utd) or you play through the middle (the way Chelsea do) with mobile forwards and one DM sitting in front of the back four. Martinez does neither. He locks the middle with Johnny Potatoes players who huff and puff but aren't creative and he has one wing partially open. I think our full backs and defence is actually ok and with a better midfield it would creak less in the centre. Our main problem is we have no brilliant No.10. Shorn of an Osman or Pienaar or an in-form Barkley (who is more of a driving midfielder anyway), there is no subtlety up top. That would be less of a problem if we were getting down the flanks at speed and whipping crosses in for a CF, but we don't do even do that. I think Martinez has been reading his own press, too concerned about appearing defensively naïve and overcompensating by strangling the attack. As many have commented, playing 3 sitting midfielders is just asking for trouble. I don't like Mirallas (not as good as he thinks), I think Lukaku would be okay if we just got the ball to his feet going forward, and I would hold on to Barkley. I don't think the system is helping him and I think his confidence is shot. In the summer, if we stay up, I would like us to buy a proper No. 10. Naismith is a tryer but I want someone fleet of foot, who can turn, beat a man and knock a ball through for Lukaku (a young Rooney would be good). Failing that, we need to get the wings sorted out. We have two great full backs (Garbutt and Coleman) who can exploit the space made by good wide men. As I say, I like Martinez and would like him to succeed, but the cautiousness and playing favourites nonsense is really frustrating. Fortune always favours the brave and I would like him to go out and be brave. Edited March 2, 2015 by formby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2325771/stubborn-martinez-not-making-best-use-of-evertons-strengths? Great article, totally spot on and couldn't sum it up any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Yep - I always had Martinez down as being astute and fluid in his tactics. It appears that he is as stubborn as Moyes. This could all cost him big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 The fact he is still being stubborn and actively praising his team after countless inept and toothless performances, will only end in disaster either for him or us! The difference between the stubbornness of him and Moyes is that I don't think he can genuinely see the danger! Some sort of acknowledgement of our predicament would go some way to dispelling this head in the sand vibe he is giving off. If we don't manage at least 4 points from Stoke and Newcastle we will have no choice but to get shut.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/everton/368/blog/post/2325771/stubborn-martinez-not-making-best-use-of-evertons-strengths? Spot on as always o'farrell, it's no wonder they pay you to do that, you're an excellent writer and evertonian. Wonder if he wanders around here? If so, I appreciate your craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Overused description but it fits so nicely for RM. He truly is an insane human being. Definition: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result Fielding the same squad and using the same tactics over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over v and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again! Perhaps he can manage from the asylum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I want Bobby to be more positive and start going for games from the off regardless of who we play. This defensive 3 man midfield shit isn't going to get us anywhere. Ok at times we might get exposed or caught on the counter but that will be outweighed by a more attacking threat. We won't win every game but I want to see us having a go and asking the questions rather than sitting back, conceding early then deciding to go for it. My team line up if available would be: Joel Coleman. Jags. Stones. Baines Mirallas. Besic. McCarthy. Oviedo Barkley Lukaku Better balance,more attacking threat and mobility and more importantly players in their own positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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