Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 A player of Messi's ability would have shown glimpses of his talent whether fully fit or not. There was absolutely nothing to suggest he was going to be any good. I didn't rate a single thing he did and I was very unimpressed after what I'd read about him. It's an early judgment but right now all the evidence suggests he's not of the calibre we need. People moan about Lukaku. Well Lukaku is twice the player I saw in Traore. I don't rate him. fair enough, but I just cant get my head around it. Guess its up to him to prove doubters wrong Just checked his stats, seems hes a 1 in 2.5 game striker throughout his career. Guess we will wait and see if he can continue that at a higher level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nope 98% of them aren't good enough for where this team wants to go. 100% of them rom this season aren't good enough for us (IMO) especially Colback and Diame. And Traore was shite well you know what the solution is dont you? Provide Martinez with £100m in order to buy players... unless that solution is available then i'm afraid we are going to have to get used to the "SQUAD" players we are linked with. You don't see Man City or Chelsea moaning about being linked with players who aren't top 15 in the world - they realise that they need 24 players and you can't keep in the first team. These players will be squad players, look at our bench - we have no one to cover for McCarthy or Barry, no one to cover for Lukaku - next season is going to be a massive drain on resource and "free" players are the easiest way of insuring the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) well you know what the solution is dont you? Provide Martinez with £100m in order to buy players... unless that solution is available then i'm afraid we are going to have to get used to the "SQUAD" players we are linked with. You don't see Man City or Chelsea moaning about being linked with players who aren't top 15 in the world - they realise that they need 24 players and you can't keep in the first team. These players will be squad players, look at our bench - we have no one to cover for McCarthy or Barry, no one to cover for Lukaku - next season is going to be a massive drain on resource and "free" players are the easiest way of insuring the team. Wrong. You don't need £100m to get decent players in. Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Baines Barry, Lukaku Deulofeu (loan market) Rather than filling the team with average Joes. The players being mentioned are mid table players at the very best and every single one of our current squad are better options than them. Colback FFS would you see United, City, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool going for that calibre of player? Would you hell You're asking for a one way ticket to the bottom half with that type of signing. Edited May 19, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 fair enough, but I just cant get my head around it. Guess its up to him to prove doubters wrong Just checked his stats, seems hes a 1 in 2.5 game striker throughout his career. Guess we will wait and see if he can continue that at a higher level Have you seen the leagues he's been playing in? He won't have that ratio at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Have you seen the leagues he's been playing in? He won't have that ratio at this level. Yes I have, not the best but not all player break through in the EPL at 17 and make an instant impact. In fact, look at the players you mentioned that can be gotten as bargains (agree with you there). All came from lower leagues (except Barry I think) and improved. They just need to be given a chance to prove themselves. Just saw hes only 23 as well. Plenty of time to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) Yes I have, not the best but not all player break through in the EPL at 17 and make an instant impact. In fact, look at the players you mentioned that can be gotten as bargains (agree with you there). All came from lower leagues (except Barry I think) and improved. They just need to be given a chance to prove themselves. Just saw hes only 23 as well. Plenty of time to learn If he's going to come here and learn we best get 2 top end strikers in if we want to finish in the top 6 next season. Edited May 19, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Wrong. You don't need £100m to get decent players in. Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Baines Barry, Lukaku Deulofeu (loan market) Rather than filling the team with average Joes. The players being mentioned are mid table players at the very best and every single one of our current squad are better options than them. Colback FFS would you see United, City, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool going for that calibre of player? Would you hell You're asking for a one way ticket to the bottom half with that type of signing. The first 5 you mentioned never seen United, Spurs, Chelsea etc after them... that market was 8-10 years ago, in todays prices the £4m each we payed for Baines and Lescott is £10m a piece. Colback is a very capable "Ball playing" footballer who has legs and is combative, he offers cover at left back, left mid, centre mid. Another player in the James McCarthy "I didn't realise he was that good" bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 The first 5 you mentioned never seen United, Spurs, Chelsea etc after them... that market was 8-10 years ago, in todays prices the £4m each we payed for Baines and Lescott is £10m a piece. Colback is a very capable "Ball playing" footballer who has legs and is combative, he offers cover at left back, left mid, centre mid. Another player in the James McCarthy "I didn't realise he was that good" bracket. £10m a piece. No chance. I'm not even having the McCarthy debate. He's decent but by no means brilliant and again I couldn't ever see him at a "top club" that's where we want to be and unfortunately signings like Colback don't get you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 £10m a piece. No chance. I'm not even having the McCarthy debate. He's decent but by no means brilliant and again I couldn't ever see him at a "top club" that's where we want to be and unfortunately signings like Colback don't get you there. Oh dear... If you mean hes not Messi, then I agree. But McCarthy is an excellent player. As for the "top clubs" not taking people like Colback, Im not sure. You need bodies, and before the mega money players like him were exactly what was needed; experienced and dependable, capable of stepping in and doing a job whilst your suspended / injured 1st choice was unavailable. All the successful clubs do this and have done this. Rich clubs tend to throw 20-30m on players who dont perform. I know which approach I prefer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 £10m a piece. No chance. I'm not even having the McCarthy debate. He's decent but by no means brilliant and again I couldn't ever see him at a "top club" that's where we want to be and unfortunately signings like Colback don't get you there. If decent means a 23 year old who plays with a maturity years beyond his age, who is tactically more advanced than anyone else in the team bar Barry then ok I need to review definitions. If he was called James Makelele playing for Chelsea then they would have had 5 minute analysis sessions on him on MOTD showing the untrained eye how valuable he is to the team, letting others play. To put it into context Leon Osman wasnt even anywhere near the first team at his age, this lad is going to get better and better. I've seen better defensive midfield performances from him this season than I did from Fellaini. Maybe McCarthy needs to start chesting the ball more, do the odd pirouet and throw his elbows all over the show to get recognised. Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I never rated Fellaini and I certainly don't rate McCarthy as highly as some. Yes he's at his level is he better than us? No. So stop blowing so much smoke up his arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) I never rated Fellaini and I certainly don't rate McCarthy as highly as some. Yes he's at his level is he better than us? No. So stop blowing so much smoke up his arse. Would you say we payed over the odds at £14m? Edited May 19, 2014 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Would you say we payed over the odds at £14m? Possibly considering he was relegated the season before. He's a £12m player. As I say decent but very top level? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Possibly considering he was relegated the season before. He's a £12m player. As I say decent but very top level? No. So, you are actually saying that £12m only gets you a decent player... but you are expecting us to get better players for less? Hence Colback being sniffed at on a free.... Your rational does not stand up. Either we need big money to improve the squad to the level you expect or we operate as we are, getting solid supplementary players in to give us depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I said we probably payed over the odds with circumstances. Fee was based on Wigan knowing Martinez really wanted him and Martinez playing fair with his old club. When you sign a player like Mirallas for £6m that's good business. When you sign an Arteta for £2m that's good business. That's the rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I said we probably payed over the odds with circumstances. Fee was based on Wigan knowing Martinez really wanted him and Martinez playing fair with his old club. When you sign a player like Mirallas for £6m that's good business. When you sign an Arteta for £2m that's good business. That's the rational. Based on your rational we were lucky to get more than £15m for Rooney, we nearly got relegated in his last season for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 My rational is this... You can get better quality than Colback for small fees if you look around. You seem to be under the impression that we should just stock bordeline average players rather than adding to an already decent size squad with a bit of quality. Whether that be loans or a few million. You say there is no cover for McCarthy and Barry. Barkley can slot in there, Gibson is back. Both better options already than Colback without spending a penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 My rational is this... You can get better quality than Colback for small fees if you look around. You seem to be under the impression that we should just stock bordeline average players rather than adding to an already decent size squad with a bit of quality. Whether that be loans or a few million. You say there is no cover for McCarthy and Barry. Barkley can slot in there, Gibson is back. Both better options already than Colback without spending a penny. pretty sure Colback would be on a free and therefore we would probably make a profit on him if he didnt work out. Anyway, the point that we need bodies. Ideally, we need players to improve the starting 11, but a loan deal and a freebie add bodies that we will desperately need for Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 pretty sure Colback would be on a free and therefore we would probably make a profit on him if he didnt work out. Anyway, the point that we need bodies. Ideally, we need players to improve the starting 11, but a loan deal and a freebie add bodies that we will desperately need for Europe. Signing on fee. Additional wage. Leave him to West Ham or Palace we need quality players to kick on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Signing on fee. Additional wage. Leave him to West Ham or Palace we need quality players to kick on. I had taken that into consideration I'll admit my initial reaction was fuck no, but then I made a point of watching him (admittedly, only through MOTD) and was pleasantly surprised. Dont get me wrong, squad filler but solid, reliable and only 24. The quality players are going to cost a fortune more often and not, and even then spending stupid money isnt a guarantee. I completely agree that there are gems out there but to find 5-6, as Roberto has said he wants, in 1 transfer window to give us the bodies to deal with the additional games (and travel) is going to be extremely difficult. Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Signing on fee. Additional wage. Leave him to West Ham or Palace we need quality players to kick on. I would actually pay £4m for him, so for me its a no brainer. He would be perfect back up for McCarthy or Barry, and Barry has needed games off last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Is Colback going to want to come here and sit on the bench? When he can go to West Ham play every week and earn the same money? Squad fillers are fine but they need to be willing to sit and wait their turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I would actually pay £4m for him, so for me its a no brainer. He would be perfect back up for McCarthy or Barry, and Barry has needed games off last season. Gibson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Gibsonwho looks a decent player, when fit. Unfortunately, he's injured more often than he's fit so you can't rely on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Gibson I hold no real hope for that lad, was told by my mate he was absolutely legless in his mates pub the other week, he's supposedly trying to get fit, he was leathered and behaving like an absolute tool. Heard rumours about this before but unfortunately they seem well founded. Given his previous injury record, aligned to his behaviour off the pitch I think he's a bit of a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I hold no real hope for that lad, was told by my mate he was absolutely legless in his mates pub the other week, he's supposedly trying to get fit, he was leathered and behaving like an absolute tool. Heard rumours about this before but unfortunately they seem well founded. Given his previous injury record, aligned to his behaviour off the pitch I think he's a bit of a waste. Maybe his lifestyle off the pitch is why he's had such a bad time fitness-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Maybe his lifestyle off the pitch is why he's had such a bad time fitness-wise. Yep, alcohol degrades Muscle and affects protein synthesis. Apart from that dehydration etc etc. I love a beer, but thejn again i'm not fortunate enough to earn £50k a week being a pro sportsman. Could be worse Rooney is paid £300k a week and has to be the worst conditioned elite footballer i've ever seen. Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood81 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 This thread :dont know: fuck me Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 On the discussion of injury prone players. Traore says hello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I have to say I enjoyed your discussion guys. I still love McCarthy, the MC position is the base of any team, it requires lots of tactical knowledge and for me it also has an influence on the future sucess of the man as a manager (Ancelotti, Simeone, Guardiola, Martinez...even Benitez and Mourinho were midfielders!) The truth is Traoré has only had a hamstring injured with a setback (rushed too soon, perhaps?). The guy is 6'6', he may need more time to heal than others if he is explosive and physical. Does anyone know if he is a permacrocked or is just a one-off? That would be the deal-breaker for me. I can stand one bad injury period, but I wouldn't want another player permanently injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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