pete0 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515505?ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&fbclid=IwAR1UfN-txccwj-Sc70oEA7fqi1_fffo1i-B5dm1r3BB_yW7n5f2BxD4q0ew The Change UK (formerly known as Indepent Group) have lost half their members already. Wonder how many will try and worm back into a bigger a party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, pete0 said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515505?ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&fbclid=IwAR1UfN-txccwj-Sc70oEA7fqi1_fffo1i-B5dm1r3BB_yW7n5f2BxD4q0ew The Change UK (formerly known as Indepent Group) have lost half their members already. Wonder how many will try and worm back into a bigger a party. Should just have joined the LibDems in the first place. It was well meaning but doomed from the start. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Should just have joined the LibDems in the first place. It was well meaning but doomed from the start. For some maybe, don't know enough about them all but Chuka was just about himself. Career Politician who hopefully won't find a new home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 Found a documentary to describe British democracy https://youtu.be/EOEMRXI3sRs MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 17 hours ago, Matt said: Found a documentary to describe British democracy https://youtu.be/EOEMRXI3sRs Not as funny as you'd think, centuries of "democracy" and we've come to this! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352 'Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd - who is not running - also condemned the proposal, saying: "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings."' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, MikeO said: Not as funny as you'd think, centuries of "democracy" and we've come to this! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352 'Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd - who is not running - also condemned the proposal, saying: "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings."' That it’s even been considered is terrifying. Also shows how the Tory’s are determined to move to a dictatorship style government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/chart-of-the-day-who-gains-when-the-us-and-china-fight-over-trade/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Brexit party get 29% of the vote in the Peterborough by-election (where the referendum was 61% for leave) and Labour just about hold on. Think that really just confirms the protest element of the EU election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, MikeO said: Brexit party get 29% of the vote in the Peterborough by-election (where the referendum was 61% for leave) and Labour just about hold on. Think that really just confirms the protest element of the EU election. Slightly confused by this, Mike. In Peterborough, they get 29% on a 48.4% turnout. In the European elections, they got 30.5% on a 37% turnout. Statistically, they did better in Peterborough. I am sure you're arguing that the vote to leave has fallen away in Peterborough, which may or may not be true. It must then also be said that the vote to overturn Brexit via the Lib Dems has also eroded (surely a protest vote for Remain in the EU election), so I'm not sure what definitive conclusions can be drawn, other than the Tories are in disarray (hurray), Labour are in disarray (as usual) and Brexit is nowhere near being sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48554853 totally predictable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Formby said: Slightly confused by this, Mike. In Peterborough, they get 29% on a 48.4% turnout. In the European elections, they got 30.5% on a 37% turnout. Statistically, they did better in Peterborough. I am sure you're arguing that the vote to leave has fallen away in Peterborough, which may or may not be true. It must then also be said that the vote to overturn Brexit via the Lib Dems has also eroded (surely a protest vote for Remain in the EU election), so I'm not sure what definitive conclusions can be drawn, other than the Tories are in disarray (hurray), Labour are in disarray (as usual) and Brexit is nowhere near being sorted. I wasn't referencing the European election results there, I was comparing the by-election result against the referendum result which I believe showed the EU Brexit party win for what it was, a protest vote. I'm not arguing that the leave feeling has fallen away at all but just that people won't vote for a single issue party at a GE so further backing my thought that the earlier extrapolation of the EU vote giving Brexit a huge majority if the EU vote was applied to a GE was nonsense. I'm sure the good folks of Peterborough still hold the same view on the EU but I think it's worth noting that the Lib Dems, while still coming fourth, actually quadrupled their share of the vote (compared to the last GE) so I don't see that as indicative of a party whose support has been "eroded". If that was repeated nationwide it would surely show a huge amount of support for their position I'd have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48554853 totally predictable Be ironic if the European courts overrule the decision. (assuming that you can take this sort of issue to the EU courts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, MikeO said: I wasn't referencing the European election results there, I was comparing the by-election result against the referendum result which I believe showed the EU Brexit party win for what it was, a protest vote. I'm not arguing that the leave feeling has fallen away at all but just that people won't vote for a single issue party at a GE so further backing my thought that the earlier extrapolation of the EU vote giving Brexit a huge majority if the EU vote was applied to a GE was nonsense. I'm sure the good folks of Peterborough still hold the same view on the EU but I think it's worth noting that the Lib Dems, while still coming fourth, actually quadrupled their share of the vote (compared to the last GE) so I don't see that as indicative of a party whose support has been "eroded". If that was repeated nationwide it would surely show a huge amount of support for their position I'd have thought. Quadrupling their share of the vote is splendid - and good luck to them - but you have to feel it was due to them becoming, in effect, a single issue party as well (cancelling Brexit), which you yourself rightly said will not do as well in a GE. They certainly did not do as well in Peterborough as they did in the European elections, which rather backs up the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Formby said: Quadrupling their share of the vote is splendid - and good luck to them - but you have to feel it was due to them becoming, in effect, a single issue party as well (cancelling Brexit), which you yourself rightly said will not do as well in a GE. They certainly did not do as well in Peterborough as they did in the European elections, which rather backs up the point. Wouldn't disagree with that, a balanced argument for sure; just don't agree that their support was "eroded" personally, but then I'm coming from a biased perspective (aren't we all?). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Wouldn't disagree with that, a balanced argument for sure; just don't agree that their support was "eroded" personally, but then I'm coming from a biased perspective (aren't we all?). There’s a clear difference between biased and informed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Matt said: There’s a clear difference between biased and informed... Depends on who you're talking to Matt. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, MikeO said: Depends on who you're talking to Matt. Not really, but I get what you mean. Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Matt said: Not really, but I get what you mean. Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so I'm happy to be in the "biased" camp because my opinion isn'tt based on the minutia of financial gain or loss or influence, I don't overly care about that. I just want the World to have less borders because we're all small people in a tiny corner of space who will be around (human race that is) for a blink of an eye in universal terms so dividing ourselves up is insane for me. We are (maybe) the only carbon based life forms in a virtually infinite space so why all this nonsense? pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 12 hours ago, Matt said: Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so You can have unconscious bias, too! It's not always deliberate (just as you can have wilful ignorance). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 12 hours ago, MikeO said: We are (maybe) the only carbon based life forms in a virtually infinite space so why all this nonsense? I'll try that with the kids! MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 Does the 'only carbon based life forms' include RS suppoters? MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 On 07/06/2019 at 17:40, pete0 said: Be ironic if the European courts overrule the decision. (assuming that you can take this sort of issue to the EU courts) Not something you can take to the European Court of Justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 10, 2019 Report Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 hours ago, holystove said: Not something you can take to the European Court of Justice. Thanks Holystove. Hopefully the powers that be over here will reverse the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48602988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Matt said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48602988 Was in a really small bar/restaurant in the hills here yesterday, well off the tourist track and a place that you need someone to tell you about otherwise you'd never find it, one of my favourite spots with stunning views from a terrace built on stilts. Only three tables occupied and one of them consisted of four Brits (Yorkshire I'd say from the accent) being absolutely obnoxious at a very loud volume. Fully understand people being pro-Brexit but these were out and out racist (Albanians and Romanians their particular target) and ignorant ("...did we have a referendum before we joined?" None of them knew). Now my wife has a fierce temper on her at times (and is the daughter of two refugees) and I was just sat there thinking, "...please don't say anything Deb". We had our drink and left, if they'd have mentioned Farage I would have asked them, very politely to shut the f'ck up as we're on holiday and don't need to hear this xenophobia. Was actually amazed my wife managed to hold her tongue, not like her. Not for a mo suggesting they're representative of all leavers so please don't take it that way, but they were frankly, in a word, scum. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 John, reading back... how do you accept that a new PM discussion is “democratic” whilst insisting that “the people voted”? Do you not see the hypocrisy, fundamental flaw, of representative democracy? Less than 1% of the supposed electorate can decide who makes decisions on the country’s future without issue other than its “tradition” (actually, it’s law because the people get to decide because they were voted to represent the public) but refusing a discussion on a potential terminal surgery is democratic? honestly baffled : 1) new PM discussion = representative democracy = no say for the people ( is what we’re based on, yes, agree but it’s shite) 2) direct democracy = a vote like Brexit, despite lack of information and lying/ deception/ both so, when you refer to democracy, which are you talking about; the legal shit one or the one that should be in place but no one seems to know how to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2019/06/22/leave-means-leave-boris-johnsons-girlfriend/?fbclid=IwAR0aY0V_hLZg_iQ45jqOWGrZx0qndkMlaVFf5GVADAJPs3rf4vf0URn5Qrg MikeO, Palfy and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, pete0 said: https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2019/06/22/leave-means-leave-boris-johnsons-girlfriend/?fbclid=IwAR0aY0V_hLZg_iQ45jqOWGrZx0qndkMlaVFf5GVADAJPs3rf4vf0URn5Qrg That made me smile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 this is insane MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, holystove said: this is insane As far as I’m aware Parliament have already voted that we cannot leave without a deal, so I cannot see how Boris or him can say we will leave without a deal if we have to it’s not solely their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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