Brexit...

[pete0]

11 minutes ago, Palfy said:

They’ve given us extensions in the hope we don’t leave or at a minimum except completely there proposals, not because they are trying to do us any favours. 

Holystove was of the same opinion as Macron that we wouldn’t and shouldn’t get an extension how wrong they were. 

If we leave with a weak pound that we work in our favour boosting our production and keeping unemployment low which in turn increases tax revenue great for us devastating for the EU. 

Also a weak pound hurts the EU more because we will not buy there goods at inflated prices and deal with country’s who are prepared to trade sensibly. 

I would rather be in than out but if we can’t be in with the same privileges then I’d rather be out than accept there demands and let them make us the poor relation. 

They've done it to protect EU citizens, ours included. The UK government hung our expats out to dry and put the EU in bounds in limbo. 

We shouldn't have got one. The EU weren't obliged to and it would have put them in a stronger position not to. 

A weak currency and you could end up the next Greece or with Boris in charge Zimbabwe! 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, pete0 said:

They've done it to protect EU citizens, ours included. The UK government hung our expats out to dry and put the EU in bounds in limbo. 

We shouldn't have got one. The EU weren't obliged to and it would have put them in a stronger position not to. 

A weak currency and you could end up the next Greece or with Boris in charge Zimbabwe! 

I think you’re find the safety and rights of EU residents and expats have already been safe guarded sometime ago regardless of how we exit. 

They gave us one because Germany said they had to give us one even though most of the eurocrats didn’t want us to have one particularly Macron who was very vocal until the vote and Merkel told him what to do, because the biggest loser in this if we leave is Germany and that just won’t do as far as there concerned. 

And to say we will end up like Greece or Zimbabwe is using the rhetoric of Cameron and the EU scare mongers and is ridiculous, we are an industrial nation and the weaker pound makes it very advantageous for people to buy from us our exports will be booming. 

[pete0]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I think you’re find the safety and rights of EU residents and expats have already been safe guarded sometime ago regardless of how we exit. 

They gave us one because Germany said they had to give us one even though most of the eurocrats didn’t want us to have one particularly Macron who was very vocal until the vote and Merkel told him what to do, because the biggest loser in this if we leave is Germany and that just won’t do as far as there concerned. 

And to say we will end up like Greece or Zimbabwe is using the rhetoric of Cameron and the EU scare mongers and is ridiculous, we are an industrial nation and the weaker pound makes it very advantageous for people to buy from us our exports will be booming. 

But they weren't inclined to and it was massively in our favour. 

I don't follow Caremon, I done economics at university so they were the first two names that come to mind. I've also moaned about the weak pound before brexit was even a thing. 

[pete0]

https://amp.ft.com/content/ffdb6e8c-c5c8-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR12oPXc7Tefq3ZFRz40cKsZhzCogkILcVwvzWWL6hM4Rub879jRQQhsPDg

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, pete0 said:

But they weren't inclined to and it was massively in our favour. 

I don't follow Caremon, I done economics at university so they were the first two names that come to mind. 

Right an economics student what as an economics student would you make of this scenario, you are Audi BMW or Mercedes and the average cost of your cars are 38k one of your biggest markets is Britain..

Every think is going well then Britain leaves the EU the pound drops about 10% to the euro and there is 10% import duty imposed on your vehicles, what would your assessment be of that on the manufactures and purchasers. 

[pete0]

42 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Right an economics student what as an economics student would you make of this scenario, you are Audi BMW or Mercedes and the average cost of your cars are 38k one of your biggest markets is Britain..

Every think is going well then Britain leaves the EU the pound drops about 10% to the euro and there is 10% import duty imposed on your vehicles, what would your assessment be of that on the manufactures and purchasers. 

That it's time to leave an unstable economy to a safer market. You can get much cheaper labour elsewhere in Europe as well as incentives to move your employment there. 

If not squeeze the UK for even more incentives so you pay less tax, wages, workers rights.

Either way the UK loses out.

[holystove]

Well.  This blew up a bit in a way not intended; in essence I was only stating the official UK policy regarding goods (see also why Canada is refusing to roll-over its EU trade agreement for the UK (clue: because the UK will allow its market to be flooded with goods)).  My post might have been a little over-aggressive, although the Marmite thing was meant as a joke (see the smiley).

To be clear:

- I like the UK

- I like the EU

- no-deal Brexit is a disaster for both.  

As Mike (who is correct about my past) indicated I used to back Leave because I was disgusted by the Cameron deal.  I also believed there to be political gain in it for the EU as the UK was a very negative member, while logically the UK would stay in the economic partnership.  As Brexit apparently now means no-deal, I am totally against it and I hope the UK stays. 

[johnh]

13 hours ago, pete0 said:

But they weren't inclined to and it was massively in our favour. 

I don't follow Caremon, I done economics at university so they were the first two names that come to mind. I've also moaned about the weak pound before brexit was even a thing. 

Pete, have a Google and find out what the sterling exchange rate to the US Dollar was when we joined the Common Market.

[pete0]

7 hours ago, johnh said:

Pete, have a Google and find out what the sterling exchange rate to the US Dollar was when we joined the Common Market.

The world is a lot smaller now. In my lifetime the euro was 1.4 before the recession. Tories then pilfered the UK citizens by giving companies more power and the workers less. Look at the average UK salary compared to the rest of the rich countries. We used to be one of the top whereas now people struggle to run a household with the exponential living costs and stagnant wages. 

[Palfy]

19 hours ago, holystove said:

Well.  This blew up a bit in a way not intended; in essence I was only stating the official UK policy regarding goods (see also why Canada is refusing to roll-over its EU trade agreement for the UK (clue: because the UK will allow its market to be flooded with goods)).  My post might have been a little over-aggressive, although the Marmite thing was meant as a joke (see the smiley).

To be clear:

- I like the UK

- I like the EU

- no-deal Brexit is a disaster for both.  

As Mike (who is correct about my past) indicated I used to back Leave because I was disgusted by the Cameron deal.  I also believed there to be political gain in it for the EU as the UK was a very negative member, while logically the UK would stay in the economic partnership.  As Brexit apparently now means no-deal, I am totally against it and I hope the UK stays. 

I personally want to stay I strongly believe in the EU and it’s future and the protection it offers the citizens with in it, especially in a world where the big economic powerhouses are constantly in trade wars and trying smash the rules of trade, I also want to be in a EU that is constantly trying to improve the rights of the people with in it’s union whether it be for workers or social rights and security against threats to us from terrorism. 

You have changed your view on us leaving which is fine and probably for reasons that are of more concern for the other 27 than us and I understand that, but when the realisation that we may leave without a deal is looking more likely, the tone starts to change in a way that we have stopped being your friend and we are now seen as some sort of threat to your union, and we must be treated more severely if possible than anyone else you deal with outside the EU. 

I now believe there is a bigger fear and uncertainty with in the the other 27 of us leaving than there is hear, and I see that manifesting It’s self in how negative your posts towards us are becoming, and all though I would rather we stay I am firstly a British citizen and if we do leave with no deal and the EU take hum bridge with that in ways you were suggesting, then I and I hope everyone else would fight back and take control of what we can do to hurt those who wish to hurt us, that is why I have responded in the way I have to what you said

 It may seem like an exaggeration but if you start trying to beat us with a big stick because things haven’t gone the way you would have liked, I think you will find we are resolute in the defence of our country, well me and John are  

Also for me we stay or no deal for two reasons that was what was on the ballot paper, and because I don’t want to be in a half way house where we have no say on the future of the union yet are governed by it’s rules without a voice. 

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[Chach]

https://www.scribd.com/document/423505284/Dear-Colleague-Letter-from-UK-PM-Boris-Johnson?fbclid=IwAR3J1IHnea9StTok1MHaMx0zhbwKpLZijmz9n5K23S4DKBxRBvOR0omw4bA

[Chach]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

I know its tragic but I can't help but raise an eyebrow at this:

"The decision to do it now is highly controversial because opponents say it would stop MPs being able to play their full democratic part in the Brexit process."

Not like they haven't had enough chances.

[johnh]

12 minutes ago, RPG said:

Whether you want Brexit or not, the present government has done more to deliver it in a couple of months than May did in 3 years.

To me, that highlights just how incompetent (possibly, intentionally so) many of May's negotiating team were.

And the Remain side can't really complain about suspending Parliament after all the dirty tricks they have pulled and scheming loopholes they have looked for over the last 3 years.

I just want it done so we can all be friends again and UK can hopefully look ahead to a vibrant future with countries outside and inside EU.

Agree with this.  I had to laugh out loud when I read Bercow's  'constitutional outrage' comment.   The Speaker's role is supposed to be impartial/neutral but he's tried every trick in the book to head off Brexit.

[MikeO]

54 minutes ago, RPG said:

Whether you want Brexit or not, the present government has done more to deliver it in a couple of months than May did in 3 years.

They've "done" the square root of fuck all, they've just said a lot. We now have an unelected PM trying to bypass elected MP's to achieve a "no deal" which is a shit result for anyone unless you're stupid enough to buy Farage's ravings. 

The reason we don't have a deal now (although I'm personally pleased about it for quite different reasons) is largely down to that fuckwit Johnson and his cronies voting against the negotiated deal multiple times.

Quoting someone else...

'Welcome to Brexit Britain: a tinpot dictatorship.

Brought to you by the liars behind such classics as "£350m a week to the NHS", "The UK holds all the cards", "There will be no downsides to Brexit" and, best of all, "We want Parliamentary Sovereignty".'

[Matt]

1 hour ago, RPG said:

Whether you want Brexit or not, the present government has done more to deliver it in a couple of months than May did in 3 years.

To me, that highlights just how incompetent (possibly, intentionally so) many of May's negotiating team were.

And the Remain side can't really complain about suspending Parliament after all the dirty tricks they have pulled and scheming loopholes they have looked for over the last 3 years.

I just want it done so we can all be friends again and UK can hopefully look ahead to a vibrant future with countries outside and inside EU.

 

is it even months?! And not to even start that Cameron started this shitstorm? 

All it shows is the incompetence of the supposed “voted in” “party”. Bribes and self-driven worth is all I’ve seen in the last few years.

also, I’d love a brexitfan to explain this for me:

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

[Palfy]

I personally believe when Boris met with leaders of the EU he came back with the approval from them for a no deal. 

I would rather stay as a full member than leave, or no Brexit than do a deal which suits them and not us because there would be no deal that suited us they wouldn’t allow that for obvious reasons. 

Britain never never shall be slaves, sorry Mike I’m getting all patriotic again

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, RPG said:

Well, we are all entitled to our opinion. I don't agree with yours though.

Thanks for your in depth reply.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Thanks for your in depth reply.

Do be fair Mike what is there to say that hasn’t already been said. 

This as now been brought to a head and I think the two options left are Corbyn and his followers win a vote of no confidence in the government take power and revoke article 50, or Boris gets his way and we leave with no deal. 

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, RPG said:

Well, we are all entitled to our opinion. I don't agree with yours though.

as a new poster, I’m pretty sure you’ve no idea as to what my opinion is. Rather, you’ve no idea why I have my opinion. 

John, did you make a new account?  

[Matt]

1 hour ago, johnh said:

Agree with this.  I had to laugh out loud when I read Bercow's  'constitutional outrage' comment.   The Speaker's role is supposed to be impartial/neutral but he's tried every trick in the book to head off Brexit.

You mean the democratically elected speaker?

https://www.parliament.uk/business/commons/the-speaker/the-role-of-the-speaker/role-of-the-speaker/

[Matt]

Yet again, the voice inside my head;

[Matt]

Soooo.....

[johnh]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

You mean the democratically elected speaker?

https://www.parliament.uk/business/commons/the-speaker/the-role-of-the-speaker/role-of-the-speaker/

Yes,  democratically elected, that makes his impartiality even worse.

[pete0]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-parliament-suspended-eu-rule-law-investigation-latest-a9082606.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2xbKA79H6bdc6oJnUscpNj1QcJ4SXycCltn_rQYIv7gGeAYEDv0CorsLA#Echobox=1567012377

How brilliant would it be if the European MPs managed to save us from our own to stop this dictatorship. 

[pete0]

13 minutes ago, RPG said:

That's a bit rich, coming from an organisation that has forced countries to continue voting until they get the 'correct' result.

 

I think Boris will just give that the 2 fingered Churchill salute and carry on.

Strange you being Churchill up in the midst of the EU and the remains MPs trying to stop Johnson from following in the other one's footsteps. 

[pete0]

6 minutes ago, RPG said:

It highlights perfectly, the sort of EU behaviour and their total need for absolute control, that we need to extract ourselves from.

What terrible people trying to stop our MPs from abusing power. 

If this situation happened in a third world country we'd have sent the troops over to intervene by now. 

[MikeO]

Bemuses me in the extreme that anyone with a double figure IQ can't see Johnson's scandalous disregard for the country and the electorate; the man is in it for himself pure and simple. He jumped from being remain to being out purely because he decided it would give him personal public kudos in the Tory party never for a moment thinking leave would win. When they did he went into hiding because he thought, "Oh fuck what do I do now?"

Now as a chancer he's become an unelected PM (see his comments on Gordon Brown getting in under far more acceptable circumstances) and has forgotten his moral outrage and gone further by playing dictator. The man's a dangerous moron who will sell us out to Trump (an equally dangerous moron) the first chance he gets.

It used to be quite entertaining watching his buffoonery on Have I Got News For You, him in number ten is terrifying. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, RPG said:

I think that's about right. I would add a small chance of a last minute deal into the mix too.

What makes me think no deal is the reaction of the DUP they have backed him, so if the EU are adamant that there will be no change to the backstop then why back him, unless they believe there is a no deal coming up. 

[Matt]

8 hours ago, MikeO said:

Bemuses me in the extreme that anyone with a double figure IQ can't see Johnson's scandalous disregard for the country and the electorate; the man is in it for himself pure and simple. He jumped from being remain to being out purely because he decided it would give him personal public kudos in the Tory party never for a moment thinking leave would win. When they did he went into hiding because he thought, "Oh fuck what do I do now?"

Now as a chancer he's become an unelected PM (see his comments on Gordon Brown getting in under far more acceptable circumstances) and has forgotten his moral outrage and gone further by playing dictator. The man's a dangerous moron who will sell us out to Trump (an equally dangerous moron) the first chance he gets.

It used to be quite entertaining watching his buffoonery on Have I Got News For You, him in number ten is terrifying. 

He’s always been anti EU, which just emphasises your point I guess; gauges the wind and goes with it. 

The scary thing is that his buffoonery is an act. He’s a very clever tactician.