Brexit...

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Johnsy said:

 

Would anybody on here who voted leave change their vote now if they could?

If not, do you believe Brexit is going well, or will still benefit us at some point in the future?

Genuine question - I can't see any benefits at all to any of us 'normal' people, now or in the future, except for maybe a few lorry drivers who got a wage increase (which will probably mostly be negated by the rising cost of, well, everything).

If he wasn’t such a lying fucker I genuinely believe now he’s PM that Boris wishes he never got Brexit over the line and agreed the worse deal imaginable, in fact so bad he’s already been trying renegotiate and renegade on what he took 3 years to discuss and agree to. 

[Bailey]

On 05/11/2021 at 18:04, Palfy said:

If he wasn’t such a lying fucker I genuinely believe now he’s PM that Boris wishes he never got Brexit over the line and agreed the worse deal imaginable, in fact so bad he’s already been trying renegotiate and renegade on what he took 3 years to discuss and agree to. 

I think you give too much credit to Boris if you think he cares about anything he has done.

On 05/11/2021 at 15:50, Johnsy said:

 

Would anybody on here who voted leave change their vote now if they could?

If not, do you believe Brexit is going well, or will still benefit us at some point in the future?

Genuine question - I can't see any benefits at all to any of us 'normal' people, now or in the future, except for maybe a few lorry drivers who got a wage increase (which will probably mostly be negated by the rising cost of, well, everything).

I think that if anyone thought there would be many or even any immediate short term tangible benefits of Brexit then they were misguided. Despite the claims of certain politicians, there was never going to be a magic snap of the fingers and everything works out moment. 

If there are going to be benefits, and I very much doubt there will be under the current Government (but others may do better), then they will be in the many years to come. 

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think that if anyone thought there would be many or even any immediate short term tangible benefits of Brexit then they were misguided.

Read "lied to".

[Palfy]

12 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think you give too much credit to Boris if you think he cares about anything he has done.

I think that if anyone thought there would be many or even any immediate short term tangible benefits of Brexit then they were misguided. Despite the claims of certain politicians, there was never going to be a magic snap of the fingers and everything works out moment. 

If there are going to be benefits, and I very much doubt there will be under the current Government (but others may do better), then they will be in the many years to come. 

But how many leavers imagined it would take 3 years to ratify and yet we are still fighting over the deal we agreed to. That we would have to pay 47 billion to come out and still contribute billions a year to the EU with no voice, when they were told it would cost them nothing because the EU needed us more than we needed them, there’s pages of that sort of shit on here of leavers sucking up all the hype and lies from Boris, Gove and their cronies, I dare say if I go back I will find you agreeing to some of the false statements. Let’s take control of our borders that’s been a massive success fuck me how gullible some people are, that Boris tuned into their little Englander mentality and gave the racists a voice. How many years do you believe it will be before we start seeing any benefits then, Rees-Mogg said after we left it would be at least 50 years before we start to see any benefits, strange he never mentioned that before the vote. I have no idea how old you are but I don’t think you will be around long enough to benefit from that unless of course your perception of the time we will benefit is far shorter say 5-10 years, you’ve said it would take time but haven’t given any indication how long, possibly because like me you haven’t got a scooby do. I’m a betting man and I would take a bet that we vote to return before we see any benefit from leaving.  Also read an article in the Independent today based on official figures, since we left the EU our GDP has fallen by 4% due to trade with EU, yet all the new deals around the world that Boris and his government brag about amounts to 0.01-0.02 of GDP giving everyone a £6-£7 gain against a £1260 loss due to the 4% loss, I don’t remember that being a possibility from any leavers, but I remember from nearly all leavers how much better off everyone will be financially

[Bailey]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

But how many leavers imagined it would take 3 years to ratify and yet we are still fighting over the deal we agreed to. That we would have to pay 47 billion to come out and still contribute billions a year to the EU with no voice, when they were told it would cost them nothing because the EU needed us more than we needed them, there’s pages of that sort of shit on here of leavers sucking up all the hype and lies from Boris, Gove and their cronies, I dare say if I go back I will find you agreeing to some of the false statements. Let’s take control of our borders that’s been a massive success fuck me how gullible some people are, that Boris tuned into their little Englander mentality and gave the racists a voice. How many years do you believe it will be before we start seeing any benefits then, Rees-Mogg said after we left it would be at least 50 years before we start to see any benefits, strange he never mentioned that before the vote. I have no idea how old you are but I don’t think you will be around long enough to benefit from that unless of course your perception of the time we will benefit is far shorter say 5-10 years, you’ve said it would take time but haven’t given any indication how long, possibly because like me you haven’t got a scooby do. I’m a betting man and I would take a bet that we vote to return before we see any benefit from leaving.  Also read an article in the Independent today based on official figures, since we left the EU our GDP has fallen by 4% due to trade with EU, yet all the new deals around the world that Boris and his government brag about amounts to 0.01-0.02 of GDP giving everyone a £6-£7 gain against a £1260 loss due to the 4% loss, I don’t remember that being a possibility from any leavers, but I remember from nearly all leavers how much better off everyone will be financially

I don't believe any of the mainstream politicians (of all shades) really knew what was going to happen. Politicians are full of hot air and very rarely have much knowledge of what they are talking about aside from the notes they have been given. 

How we move on from here all depends on the people running the country. With this lot, I don't think we will ever benefit from Brexit. I also don't think we will from the opposition parties either. I think there are only a handful of genuinely capable MPs but that is for another time. 

In respect of your figures, there was never going to be anyway that coming out of the EU market could be immediately replaced by other trade with other countries or whatever other agreements we come to with the EU. 

First things first, we need to find a capable and stable Government.

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I don't believe any of the mainstream politicians (of all shades) really knew what was going to happen. Politicians are full of hot air and very rarely have much knowledge of what they are talking about aside from the notes they have been given. 

How we move on from here all depends on the people running the country. With this lot, I don't think we will ever benefit from Brexit. I also don't think we will from the opposition parties either. I think there are only a handful of genuinely capable MPs but that is for another time. 

In respect of your figures, there was never going to be anyway that coming out of the EU market could be immediately replaced by other trade with other countries or whatever other agreements we come to with the EU. 

First things first, we need to find a capable and stable Government.

Shouldn’t we have had the right government before we took the plunge, I find it unbelievable that you would vote leave knowing that times would be harder until the right people hold the power, and that may never happen. 

[Matt]

On 07/11/2021 at 17:55, Palfy said:

Shouldn’t we have had the right government before we took the plunge, I find it unbelievable that you would vote leave knowing that times would be harder until the right people hold the power, and that may never happen. 

Right government wasn't/isn't the issue. There was no study. No plan. No alignment even between what leaving would mean for those considering it. No one knew what they were voting for because no one was told what it meant in reality because no one knew. It's a massive lie to the population and in any other walk of life, CEOs and board members would be jailed for fraud. Because that's exactly what it is. 

[Chach]

On 29/09/2021 at 16:25, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58711230

This is not encouraging at all. There are reasons strict rules are in place. Although they prevent profit, so I guess fuck nature, horray money. 

What's that supposed to mean, did you even read the article?

Gene editing /therapy are going to be at the forefront of medical breakthroughs, since the discovery of CRISPR Cas9 in 2006 it's already progressed to human trials to treat disease caused by genetic mutations formed the *natural* way.

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Chach said:

What's that supposed to mean, did you even read the article?

Gene editing /therapy are going to be at the forefront of medical breakthroughs, since the discovery of CRISPR Cas9 in 2006 it's already progressed to human trials to treat disease caused by genetic mutations formed the *natural* way.

Yes. I did. Comparing crops with illnesses in people isn't not even remotely relevant. 

[Chach]

21 hours ago, Matt said:

Yes. I did. Comparing crops with illnesses in people isn't not even remotely relevant. 

Completely relevant, the technology is identical and the early advancement to use in humans helps demonstrate it's safety.

 

 

The majority of experts surveyed conclusively agree genome editing poses no significant risks to the economy, environment, human health or society. This sample of experts thought existing national regulations work to discourage genome editing in many countries; a view that was strongly held in Europe.The current generation of genomic technologies, including genome editing, challenges existing precautionary-based governance approaches. The 2018 CJEU ruling on mutagenesis and the resulting experts' reaction reflect such challenges. A number of EU states are calling for a coalition to update the EU GM legislation with regards to NBTs (Fortuna, 2019). This signals that respective regulatory systems are dysfunctional as they do not support advancement of innovative plant breeding. Our expert panel suggest this is because discussions concerning the risks associated with genome editing, and targeted breeding techniques generally, are driven more by socio-political factors than by scientific principles.

 

 

[Matt]

I'll have a read, that's a long document.

My concern, as has been proven over and over again, is how a mutated variant in the wild then effects ecosystems. In a person, it affects the person. Crops are out in the open and pollinators then crossbreed the modified with the existing creating an unpredictable hybrid, with unpredictable consequences. That's my concern and why I say it's not comparable. I'm all for CRISPR in a controlled manner, crops out in the open isn't controlled. 

That document may well explain away my concerns, in which case I'll hold up my hands. But at least you'll understand my initial reaction to your first post. 

[MikeO]

I missed this at the time but The Telegraph, no less, a few days ago under the headline...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/04/time-running-prove-brexit-not-historic-failure/

Time is running out to prove Brexit is not a historic failure

The Prime Minister had an inspiring message for everyone on New Year’s Eve: get vaccinated to help stop the spread of omicron. It should be everyone’s resolution for 2022, he said, although with 82.5pc of those aged 12 and over double-jabbed, and 59.3pc already topped up with a booster, it was not a rallying cry to divide the nation in “take back control” style.

Still, in the spirit of telling others what to do, here’s a new year’s pledge for Boris Johnson. Prove to the people of this country – both Brexiteers and Remainers – that Brexit isn’t destined to become a historic failure.

It’s been five long years since the shock referendum result and 12 full months since Britain burst free from the shackles of Brussels. Yet even some of the most ardent Brexiteers are beginning to reluctantly concede that life outside the EU has yet to live up to its billing. Lord Frost’s resignation from the Cabinet last month partly expressed that disappointment.

The Government too seems to have tacitly acknowledged such frustrations with a press release to mark the end of 2021 that promised “to build on Brexit achievements in 2022”. Coming just as several trade bodies warned that new customs checks would wreck imports from the bloc, with one predicting they would become “more expensive, less flexible and much slower”, it was comically bad timing.

According to No 10’s missive, among the “key successes” so far is “taking back control of our borders”, a boast not necessarily supported by the record number of Channel crossings in 2021 when arrivals tripled to more than 28,000, or the exodus of legal migrant EU workers that has left some industries facing a workforce crisis.

Still, if nothing else, surely we can all agree that when it comes to “axing red tape”, the return of the crown stamp on to the side of pint glasses counts as a significant victory over those pesky Brussels bureaucrats. Ditto removing the ban on selling in pounds and ounces.

It’s pretty weak stuff from the Downing Street spinners. Perhaps all those parties are catching up with them. What has happened to all the big free trade deals that were promised? In their search for benefits, officials are scraping the bottom of the barrel with such fury that they have tunnelled through to the antipodes.

The Prime Minister can talk all he likes about “landmark deals” with Australia and New Zealand but by the Government’s own admission, neither will move the dial when it comes to GDP or cheaper goods.

The pacts are supposed to “pave the way” for Britain’s entry to the £9 trillion Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, whose members include major economies such as Canada, Japan and Mexico. But membership of this big club remains aspirational for now and there are serious questions about the overall benefits to exporters given the physical distance between the UK and the Pacific region.

 It has also been pointed out that the UK may be required to make the kind of compromises that Brexiteers persistently cited as one of the main reasons for leaving the EU.

The big prize remains an agreement with America but as the one-year anniversary of Joe Biden’s inauguration approaches, a transatlantic tie-up remains as far beyond our reach as ever. The unfortunate reality anyway is that for all the political hot air that they generate, most free-trade deals have very little impact owing to their limited scope.

But it’s not just that the benefits of Brexit have so far proved elusive. It’s worse than that. The initial impact, from chaos with customs checks and a heavy blow to business investment has been almost overwhelmingly negative – and things could get a lot worse.

Goods coming into Britain face a fresh avalanche of paperwork, threatening more supply chain dislocation and to overwhelm our ports. The Northern Ireland conundrum – which stumped Lord Frost and failed to merit a mention in the Prime Minister’s new year message – has been handed to Liz Truss, whose recent ascendency is better evidence of the Government’s weakness than her strengths. Food prices could spiral further after a year in which inflation had hit 5.2pc by the end of November.

For the time being, the Government still has the electorate on its side but only just perhaps. While a recent Ipsos Mori poll found just 24pc of the population favoured rejoining the EU, results of a separate survey for Opinium showed that 42pc of people who voted Leave in 2016 had a negative view of how Brexit had turned out so far.

Voters aren’t mugs. Ministers can’t keep dismissing the downsides as teething problems. Nor will the public continue to accept the jam tomorrow version of events. When Boris says the Government will go “further and faster” in 2022 to maximise the opportunities of Brexit, he should be held to it.

This is the year when reality should finally match all the hype, otherwise even the most staunch Brexiteers may be forced to question whether they will ever get what they wanted.

[MikeO]

And a quote I like about where we are, "The first territory in the history of humanity to impose economic sanctions upon itself." (James O'Brien, divisive figure without a doubt, but talks my language)

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59971172

"There is a deal to be done but it will require a pragmatic approach from the EU," she said.

Groundhog Day

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60099413

 

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60308494

Shocker. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60308494

Shocker. 

It is a disgrace and the government act obliviously to it, and pretend everything is going swimmingly. And now Rees-Mogg as been appointed minister for Brexit opportunities we are well and truly fucked. 

[MikeO]

38 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It is a disgrace and the government act obliviously to it, and pretend everything is going swimmingly. And now Rees-Mogg as been appointed minister for Brexit opportunities we are well and truly fucked. 

An invented title to try and make people think there are some, the talking pencil definitely the right man for the job!

[Palfy]

19 hours ago, MikeO said:

An invented title to try and make people think there are some, the talking pencil definitely the right man for the job!

Very true Mike, but you would have thought to try and give a bit credibility they would have came up with a lesser clown than the big one they chose, that’s assuming they have one of course. 

[MikeO]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/16/panic-boris-johnson-allies-brexit-unravelling-michael-heseltine

[MikeO]

On 10/02/2022 at 10:41, Palfy said:

Very true Mike, but you would have thought to try and give a bit credibility they would have came up with a lesser clown than the big one they chose, that’s assuming they have one of course. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/11/jacob-rees-mogg-brexit-opportunities-britain-economy

[Palfy]

31 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/11/jacob-rees-mogg-brexit-opportunities-britain-economy

I would say he’s got to be a smoked Kipper, because all Brexiteers must have been smoking something dodgy to believe Brexit had any chance of being a success. And the Dover MP she obviously didn’t get what Brexit meant even though she and a majority of her constituents voted for it, I call that just deserts. 

[Palfy]

I know the EU is a trade organisation but  it has gone much further than that over the years, with laws concerning citizens in the EU and what governments can and cannot do, yet two of the biggest leaders have refused to cut Russia out the SWIFT banking system to help defend one of their own members.

The EU have for years been harbouring with the idea of an EU Army my god what an embarrassment that would be, when you have members who won’t even vote to take Russia out the SWIFT banking system. I have been pro EU all my adult life but I would never want to return to a Union that two of its biggest members would act the way they have to one of their own. 

[MikeO]

50 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I know the EU is a trade organisation but  it has gone much further than that over the years, with laws concerning citizens in the EU and what governments can and cannot do, yet two of the biggest leaders have refused to cut Russia out the SWIFT banking system to help defend one of their own members.

The EU have for years been harbouring with the idea of an EU Army my god what an embarrassment that would be, when you have members who won’t even vote to take Russia out the SWIFT banking system. I have been pro EU all my adult life but I would never want to return to a Union that two of its biggest members would act the way they have to one of their own. 

Ukraine aren't in the EU

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Ukraine aren't in the EU

Not fully granted but in 2014 they signed an agreement with the EU and in 2016 Ukraine joined the DCFTA with the EU, still they have some form of trade agreement with the EU and are allies of the EU,  and on that basis I am appalled that two founder members would vote against the full sanctions that were proposed and break the united front of the West. 
I personally don’t want to be linked with the weakness of those two governments, as we speak thousands of Russians have been protesting and been arrested in Russia against the war to what fate god knows, I have massive respect for those people and none for German and Italian governments, and if ever given the opportunity to return to the EU I would decline whilst they enjoyed membership. 

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60926196

 

[MikeO]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/29/jacob-rees-mogg-brexit-disaster-leaving-eu-boris-johnson

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/29/jacob-rees-mogg-brexit-disaster-leaving-eu-boris-johnson

I get no pleasure in reading these articles even though I was a remainer and new Brexit wouldn’t be in the best interest of the country, I get very frustrated and angry that 51% off the population couldn’t ingest the truth that voting out would financially hurt them their families and the country, and that taking back control of our borders was just a vote winning ploy and hasn’t happened. 

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I get no pleasure in reading these articles even though I was a remainer and new Brexit wouldn’t be in the best interest of the country, I get very frustrated and angry that 51% off the population couldn’t ingest the truth that voting out would financially hurt them their families and the country, and that taking back control of our borders was just a vote winning ploy and hasn’t happened. 

Same, no pleasure, just anger....and a bit of told you so you fucking gullible twats.

[MikeO]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-anniversary-six-years-vote-leave-b2106902.html

Closing lines, "I’m sorry to say that, with rare exceptions, no one who voted Leave in 2016 properly understood what it would really entail to make it a success. Me included. I’m sorry."