The High Press - can our front four do it?

[nogs]

Tactically it's been the big fad in football for a few years now, but it has really come to the fore in the Premier League this season. Spurs do it brilliantly under Pochettino, Liverpool are starting to under Klopp, City obviously under Guardiola. And they win.

 

So, simple question - have we got the right players up top to press high? What would be the best combination? Or should we try to develop a different system that suits the players we have? And if so, what is it?

Edited September 25, 2016 by nogs

[MC11]

We've lost one league game fella And we've been winning. It was inevitable we were going to drop points sooner or later the front three are pressing.

[Bill]

It's not as tho we've played any good sides, god help us when we do.

[markjazzbassist]

We've lost one league game fella And we've been winning. It was inevitable we were going to drop points sooner or later the front three are pressing.

Yep exactly.

[Shukes]

Nope, not for me.

We have Bolasie that's it.

 

Tye rest of our front players don't really do mate check until they receive the ball.

 

Said it from the start, haven't seen much difference from last season so far. It's a fine line between us scoring first and the other team. We have been 50/50 until we score then we suddenly look decent.

 

I just can't see Koeman managing to turn Ross, Lukaku and Mirralas into pressing players.

[marcopaulo]

Unless you play Kone, Lennon and Cleverley as part of then no

[nogs]

We've lost one league game fella And we've been winning. It was inevitable we were going to drop points sooner or later the front three are pressing.

What's that got to do with my post? I'm asking a genuine tactical question.

[nogs]

Nope, not for me.

We have Bolasie that's it.

 

Tye rest of our front players don't really do mate check until they receive the ball.

 

Said it from the start, haven't seen much difference from last season so far. It's a fine line between us scoring first and the other team. We have been 50/50 until we score then we suddenly look decent.

 

I just can't see Koeman managing to turn Ross, Lukaku and Mirralas into pressing players.

Then next question, can we afford to play all three of them? I'd put Geri in the same bracket.

[MC11]

Nope, not for me.

We have Bolasie that's it.

Tye rest of our front players don't really do mate check until they receive the ball.

Said it from the start, haven't seen much difference from last season so far. It's a fine line between us scoring first and the other team. We have been 50/50 until we score then we suddenly look decent.

I just can't see Koeman managing to turn Ross, Lukaku and Mirralas into pressing players.

I'd suggest you watch us this season. Mirallas has been pressing all season. So has Barkley. Deulofeu & Bolasie not so much but to even include Mirallas in that is ridiculous. He's been chasing down defenders every game.

[MC11]

Then next question, can we afford to play all three of them? I'd put Geri in the same bracket.

You said other teams have been pressing and winning. We've been winning and we have been pressing. From the front three back to Gana. One of the outstanding things this season. Maybe it's just noticeable from my seat.

[MC11]

Unless you play Kone, Lennon and Cleverley as part of then no

What a shite combination of players. Martinez'esc that - no thanks

[Finn balor]

I think Koeman has seen through some of the players already but he knows he has to play them until he can buy better than what he has.

[markjazzbassist]

I think Koeman has seen through some of the players already but he knows he has to play them until he can buy better than what he has.

Yep exactly.

[Elston Gunnn]

I think Koeman has seen through some of the players already but he knows he has to play them until he can buy better than what he has.

Back in the summer window, I asked whether people thought Koeman needed to "tweak" the squad with a few signings, or "overhaul" it with a half-dozen or more signings. Opinions differed, though overall many were less than fully satisfied, culminating with deadline day frustrations.

 

With 4 straight wins and 13 from a possible 15 to begin the season, many of us began expressing not just hopeful expectations but something approaching confidence that Koeman had corrected the Martinez disaster. The last 2 matches have been pretty deflating, to the extent that renewed disagreements now re-emerge over so many players [barkley, Funes Mori, Valencia, Deulofeu, Cleverley, Mirallas, Coleman, McCarthy, Lennon, Kone] that one might say we are back to the issue of "tweak or overhaul."

 

Presumably an overwhelming majority of Everton fans - right now - look to further acquisitions in January. Even if we manage to stay, say, top 6 once the fixtures become more challenging, most - even those on TT who think there's been a stupid overreaction to Norwich City and Bournemouth performances - will demand a new signing or 2 [more??] in January.

 

All of which raises, for me, and I think implicitly for the vast majority on TT, the basic question: how good are our players? If the squad is further "tweaked" in January, good enough to challenge for top 4? Top 6? Only top half, at best?

[pete0]

I think Barkley is the main man who looks out of place. He doesn't show for a full 90 often enough. Shame really because he plays better on instinct, so if he pressed and got stuck in he'd have less time to think and we'd see the best of him.

 

When Barry isn't fit we should drop Barkley and stack the midfield with Davies and Cleverley.

[MC11]

Back in the summer window, I asked whether people thought Koeman needed to "tweak" the squad with a few signings, or "overhaul" it with a half-dozen or more signings. Opinions differed, though overall many were less than fully satisfied, culminating with deadline day frustrations.

 

With 4 straight wins and 13 from a possible 15 to begin the season, many of us began expressing not just hopeful expectations but something approaching confidence that Koeman had corrected the Martinez disaster. The last 2 matches have been pretty deflating, to the extent that renewed disagreements now re-emerge over so many players [barkley, Funes Mori, Valencia, Deulofeu, Cleverley, Mirallas, Coleman, McCarthy, Lennon, Kone] that one might say we are back to the issue of "tweak or overhaul."

 

Presumably an overwhelming majority of Everton fans - right now - look to further acquisitions in January. Even if we manage to stay, say, top 6 once the fixtures become more challenging, most - even those on TT who think there's been a stupid overreaction to Norwich City and Bournemouth performances - will demand a new signing or 2 [more??] in January.

 

All of which raises, for me, and I think implicitly for the vast majority on TT, the basic question: how good are our players? If the squad is further "tweaked" in January, good enough to challenge for top 4? Top 6? Only top half, at best?

Getting Martinez ways completely out the club is going to take time. Personally I'm happy with the way we've started but I'll be honest I haven't watched the last two games in full.

 

United aren't doing too well and neither are Chelsea. They were/are on a worse run than us. 2 defeats in a week is bad but certainly not going to start thinking about changes yet.

[Makis]

Our forwards really don't do a good job at pressing. Didn't see the game on Saturday but for instance Boro did a much better job at it. They even got a good chance when Barry was dispossed near the penalty area. Our players react too slowly and give too much space to defenders for a truly effective press. If the defender has time to receive the ball and look up and still has time to pass the ball he has too much time.

[gethinO]

Getting Martinez ways completely out the club is going to take time. Personally I'm happy with the way we've started but I'll be honest I haven't watched the last two games in full.

 

United aren't doing too well and neither are Chelsea. They were/are on a worse run than us. 2 defeats in a week is bad but certainly not going to start thinking about changes yet.

Well said. I've seen so many overreactions due to the two defeats it's unbelievable (not on here - more on social media mainly). I've seen Koeman called 'a dutch fraud' and a 'dutch Martinez' after less than ten games in charge when we've started well... It's ridiculous.

[StevO]

I agree with every post MC has made in this thread.

[smeghead1]

It's not as tho we've played any good sides, god help us when we do.

I thought we'd been pressing from the front quite effectively most games.

 

On Bills point everyone is dismissing Spurs this season would they not be classed as a big team? We didn't do to badly against them until the Martinez fitness regime came back to haunt us.

[Shukes]

I'd suggest you watch us this season. Mirallas has been pressing all season. So has Barkley. Deulofeu & Bolasie not so much but to even include Mirallas in that is ridiculous. He's been chasing down defenders every game.

So me saying that Mirralas isn't a high pressing player is ridiculous.

 

But you think Bolasie isn't so much.

 

Hmm maybe your right, maybe I need to watch us this season.

 

Can I put a dumbfounded emote on with my mobile?

[MC11]

So me saying that Mirralas isn't a high pressing player is ridiculous.

 

But you think Bolasie isn't so much.

 

Hmm maybe your right, maybe I need to watch us this season.

 

Can I put a dumbfounded emote on with my mobile?

I've said Mirallas has been pressing. Bolasie "not so much". Do I see Bolasie as a high intensity player without the ball...? No. Don't see him as that type of player. Has Mirallas proved he can do that... Yes

[Shukes]

I've said Mirallas has been pressing. Bolasie "not so much". Do I see Bolasie as a high intensity player without the ball...? No. Don't see him as that type of player. Has Mirallas proved he can do that... Yes

Fair enough.

 

I feel I have witnessed the opposite.

Bolasie seems a workhorse type player to me.

Mirralas is working a lot harder then last year, but only compared to himself. Much better player this year.

[Btay]

I've actually always thought Kev isn't as lazy as often made out to be. When he loses the ball he normally goes after it

[Romey 1878]

I've actually always thought Kev isn't as lazy as often made out to be. When he loses the ball he normally goes after it

 

Previous "problems" cloud people's judgement when it comes to Mirallas IMO.

[Shukes]

I've actually always thought Kev isn't as lazy as often made out to be. When he loses the ball he normally goes after it

I agree. He takes it personally when he loses the ball and always try to get it back.

Would just like to see more hustle from him thats all.

 

Like I say, great to see him more consistent and dangerous this year.

[markjazzbassist]

 

Previous "problems" cloud people's judgement when it comes to Mirallas IMO.

 

agreed, everyone heard that moyes quote from eons ago about how lazy kev is and they carte blanche apply it to everything. He and Bolasie have worked very hard, to be fair i think Rom has pressed hardly than barkley, barkley will give it a go for 10' and then just stand off and jog around. he's the weak point currently in the press.

[nogs]

Watching Spurs v City at the moment. They're playing a different game to us at the moment. Spurs add an aggression to the high intensity Giardiola likes to play with, very, very impressive. We look utterly laboured compared to this.

[StevO]

I'd love to see us play likeSpurs.

[Elston Gunnn]

Watching Spurs v City at the moment. They're playing a different game to us at the moment. Spurs add an aggression to the high intensity Giardiola likes to play with, very, very impressive. We look utterly laboured compared to this.

I think nogs has hit on just the right word for our play, at least in our last 3 dismaying matches: "laboured." I'm perhaps overly critical of Barkley, and our laboured play is hardly his fault alone, but as many of you have said, he's no 10. I don't know what his best position is, but generally he slows things down far too often, dribbling too much, strange decisions, shooting when he should pass, passing when he should blast it.

 

Again, I'm probably too critical of his football brain deficiencies, so I'm curious as to whether others share nogs's description of our "laboured" play but have a different analysis of why it's the opposite of fluid.