2018 World Cup

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Was great watching Cameroon in Italia 90 wasn't it.  Proper upset the footballing hierarchy.  It took a very good England side with a superb Gazza to beat them.

Imagine having that Gazza now.... unreal player. 

It was. Took a late Lineker penalty to take it to extra time and another one to win it.

 

[Sir McGiven]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Sane left of the Germany squad. That is an absolute shocker, one of the best young wingers in world football.

it's in-Sane 

But they have other options as quality as Sane so for me it is not like "Radja" decision for Belgium. Still, he had a very good season, young, energetic, his pace is top. I would have picked him if I were Low.

[Ghoat]

49 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

it's in-Sane 

But they have other options as quality as Sane so for me it is not like "Radja" decision for Belgium. Still, he had a very good season, young, energetic, his pace is top. I would have picked him if I were Low.

I have read pundits saying why it was a mistake, and others saying why it made sense. The fact that equally compelling arguments came be made show how loaded Germany is. From a 'Merican perspective it's just mind boggling at the gulf- if he walked into our camp, he would be the best player on the squad, and it wouldn't be close. And he is Germany's 24th or 25th best player.

Ok, you can't say that due to positions, 3 GK's, defenders etc. but that Low can legitimately rate 5-6 attacking players higher...just damn. They have an embarrassment of riches.

[Sir McGiven]

1 hour ago, Ghoat said:

I have read pundits saying why it was a mistake, and others saying why it made sense. The fact that equally compelling arguments came be made show how loaded Germany is. From a 'Merican perspective it's just mind boggling at the gulf- if he walked into our camp, he would be the best player on the squad, and it wouldn't be close. And he is Germany's 24th or 25th best player.

Ok, you can't say that due to positions, 3 GK's, defenders etc. but that Low can legitimately rate 5-6 attacking players higher...just damn. They have an embarrassment of riches.

I've just seen Low's comments on his decision, by the way, he says that Sane is a magnificent player but he had to choose either Brandt or Sane as Draxler, Reus and Muller's places were set already in the squad. He said, "Sane didn't perform well in the training so I've chosen Brandt". 

It is a good example of your argument. They have loads of good players and players like Sane can be out of the squad.

Another advantage of Germany is (i also think it will be the advantage of US team in the future) they have a demographic variety. Turk, Polish, African etc. As I am Turkish, I can comment on Turks in Germany and probably it is same for other nationalities in Germany.

Youth system in Turkey is corrupted like many other things are... Normally, Turkey has a good young population in the country and Turkish youngsters are talented when it comes to playing football. The football is all over the country but as the youth system is corrupt, we can not produce good footballers. Maybe 1 or 2 in a decade. Another point is, Turks are not mentally strong because of various reasons. Example, offer 2 million euros/dollars a year for a Turkish player and you'll see many of them will stop developing because it'll be enough for them.

Turks in Germany have same characteristics but German youth system is based on discipline and as Turks are a minority in Germany, they have something to prove... So Germany was able to produce national players out of Turks in Germany such as Ozil, Ilkay Gundogan and Emre Can.

This part will be a little bit out of subject: Same in other sports. You were American, right? 2 of most successful Turkish basketball players in NBA, Hedo and Okur. Hedo is Bosnian based Turkish citizen, Okur is Turkish but an exception. We couldn't produce any other Turkish basketball player after him. Cedi Osman at Cavs, Macedonian based Turkish basketball player same as Hedo. Not being racist or something while saying they are "x" country based Turkish. Saying this because they are raised by their family with a different cultural background and it makes the difference.

Getting back to the subject; German youth system is extraordinary, they are in Europe where football was born also a strong demographic structure and they can produce many successful footballers. I think with correct investment,  US can reach that level in the future. The US has the same demographic structure as you guys were discussing why many US youngsters playing in Europe.

[Ghoat]

21 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

Example, offer 2 million euros/dollars a year for a Turkish player and you'll see many of them will stop developing because it'll be enough for them.

That's an interesting perspective. And this is purely subjective/opinion, but I feel like American players can get trapped in that mindset because it fits more in our overall "sports" culture. Be a stud in high school, get a college scholarship, be a star, then make a living playing at a high level in "our" pro league. Somewhat big fish/little pond, limited to what's in the US.  In that regard, our best and brightest leaving for "bigger ponds" is a positive. Not content to be a great "American soccer player" but going abroad to learn, in hopes of being a great footballer among great footballers. 

I can't say I have ever really thought as much about players of other nationality's potential being possibly handicapped by their domestic football cultures as we are (or basketball as your other examples). In part because I see top players from all over the world being successful in top leagues, and in part from being raised in geographically isolated nation. I mean from where I live, it's 900 miles to drive to Canada or Mexico, the only 2 bordering nations. Notwithstanding being an island nation, 900 miles from London probably puts you in 15-20 different counties, languages, cultures etc... Different perspective for sure.

[markjazzbassist]

57 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

I've just seen Low's comments on his decision, by the way, he says that Sane is a magnificent player but he had to choose either Brandt or Sane as Draxler, Reus and Muller's places were set already in the squad. He said, "Sane didn't perform well in the training so I've chosen Brandt". 

It is a good example of your argument. They have loads of good players and players like Sane can be out of the squad.

Another advantage of Germany is (i also think it will be the advantage of US team in the future) they have a demographic variety. Turk, Polish, African etc. As I am Turkish, I can comment on Turks in Germany and probably it is same for other nationalities in Germany.

Youth system in Turkey is corrupted like many other things are... Normally, Turkey has a good young population in the country and Turkish youngsters are talented when it comes to playing football. The football is all over the country but as the youth system is corrupt, we can not produce good footballers. Maybe 1 or 2 in a decade. Another point is, Turks are not mentally strong because of various reasons. Example, offer 2 million euros/dollars a year for a Turkish player and you'll see many of them will stop developing because it'll be enough for them.

Turks in Germany have same characteristics but German youth system is based on discipline and as Turks are a minority in Germany, they have something to prove... So Germany was able to produce national players out of Turks in Germany such as Ozil, Ilkay Gundogan and Emre Can.

This part will be a little bit out of subject: Same in other sports. You were American, right? 2 of most successful Turkish basketball players in NBA, Hedo and Okur. Hedo is Bosnian based Turkish citizen, Okur is Turkish but an exception. We couldn't produce any other Turkish basketball player after him. Cedi Osman at Cavs, Macedonian based Turkish basketball player same as Hedo. Not being racist or something while saying they are "x" country based Turkish. Saying this because they are raised by their family with a different cultural background and it makes the difference.

Getting back to the subject; German youth system is extraordinary, they are in Europe where football was born also a strong demographic structure and they can produce many successful footballers. I think with correct investment,  US can reach that level in the future. The US has the same demographic structure as you guys were discussing why many US youngsters playing in Europe.

Enes Kanter?  Cedi is good, i live in cleveland, just young and as he plays more he will become a decent player.  

[Sir McGiven]

1 hour ago, Ghoat said:

That's an interesting perspective. And this is purely subjective/opinion, but I feel like American players can get trapped in that mindset because it fits more in our overall "sports" culture. Be a stud in high school, get a college scholarship, be a star, then make a living playing at a high level in "our" pro league. Somewhat big fish/little pond, limited to what's in the US.  In that regard, our best and brightest leaving for "bigger ponds" is a positive. Not content to be a great "American soccer player" but going abroad to learn, in hopes of being a great footballer among great footballers. 

I can't say I have ever really thought as much about players of other nationality's potential being possibly handicapped by their domestic football cultures as we are (or basketball as your other examples). In part because I see top players from all over the world being successful in top leagues, and in part from being raised in geographically isolated nation. I mean from where I live, it's 900 miles to drive to Canada or Mexico, the only 2 bordering nations. Notwithstanding being an island nation, 900 miles from London probably puts you in 15-20 different counties, languages, cultures etc... Different perspective for sure.

Of course, it can be a trap regardless what person's nationality but my people as the economy is way worse than the US, is more likely to get in that trap. I mean the most obvious example is black people I assume. After growing up in the ghettos and becoming popular in a sports business suddenly, then earning millions of dollars yearly can be a problem.  (Allen Iverson can be a good example)

When I was younger, I was a young national basketball player (U19 national team) but my father didn't want me to chase my dream as the economy was stronger back then and studying a good profession were offering more. (Important hint here: In Turkey, we don't have sports scholarships like in the US) But now, even basketball players in Turkey earning more and more than my time, people raising their children to be a football or basketball player as it offers enough to make a good living. When our current mentality designed like that, a single "million" dollars/euros contract for one person being enough to -not try to- reach another level of what they are doing.

In US Soccer case, I think what important is how the US will adapt itself to football. In its current state, it needs to reach wider audience first in the country to build a development system domestically. Otherwise, making the connections in European countries to send young and talented football players to there and let them develop but in all possibilities, a wider audience will be needed. If there is no domestic interest in football, it'll disappear eventually as it can not go on from WC to another WC.

Of course, I am not the expert on the US culture and my knowledge is limited but you can consider it as an outsider looking in.

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

Enes Kanter?  Cedi is good, i live in cleveland, just young and as he plays more he will become a decent player.  

Oh yes, him too. Well, for obvious reasons anything about him is banned in Turkey and I totally forgot about him Well, even before the things have happened in Turkey and he became a persona non grata, I never liked him. The guy is a problem, troublesome. Oh, there are also Furkan Korkmaz, drafted by Philly and Ersan Ilyasova. Cedi, on the other hand, is pure gold. A perfect personality, always smiles, always enjoys what he does and gives 100%.

[Ghoat]

11 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

In US Soccer case, I think what important is how the US will adapt itself to football. In its current state, it needs to reach wider audience first in the country to build a development system domestically. Otherwise, making the connections in European countries to send young and talented football players to there and let them develop but in all possibilities, a wider audience will be needed. If there is no domestic interest in football, it'll disappear eventually as it can not go on from WC to another WC.

Of course, I am not the expert on the US culture and my knowledge is limited but you can consider it as an outsider looking in.

Spot on. To be relevant internationally, it has to matter domestically.

International success - or even relevancy - will in turn grow the sport domestically. Otherwise we're just another country that gets out of the group stage every 2-3 cycles and is ok with that. 

We had a huge surge of interest during the last WC - The networks hyped it, people watched, American Outlaw chapters sprung up all over the country, MLS  benefitted, expanding from 19 to 23 teams (3 more confirmed in the next 2 years) But, there is a significant percentage of those people that forget about it for four years, like the Olympic sports. But there are those that got the "soccer bug" by following the USMNT in the WC,  and while you "have" them, there is a much better chance that they start watching MLS or EPL when it starts back on TV a month later.  They recognize the foreign players they saw now playing for their club teams, or want to watch the US guys with their clubs and start to really follow the sport.  That's important, IMO, to getting a wider audience - especially in the areas that don't have an MLS team, or any real domestic presence (which is most of the country).  That's one of the many reason it sucks so much that we aren't in this year, we are missing that window of hype that comes every 4 years. The ones that tuned in for 2014, but lost interest afterwards, you are now waiting 8 years to have that opportunity to really grab them again. I'm sure to non-Americans that's absurd to think of the sport in those terms, because it's just always been the predominate sport in most of the world.  But over here people have said it's set us back 4 years, 10 years, 20 years etc...I don't necessarily agree with all that, but us not making the WC certainly is a significant setback, not only for US Soccer, but the sport in general domestically. 

I'm sure the networks that have the US Broadcast rights - NBCSports (EPL) and FoxSports (FA Cup, EUFA, World Cup) - have the data that will either show a decline or at least a decline in growth in the post-2018 WC viewership compared to the post-2014 WC viewership of their European coverage. 

We have a tremendous untapped portion of the population that could really contribute to significant domestic growth of the sport. But if that portion collectively has A.D.D. then we just lost most of them for a few years because they saw a big fat furry squirrel and forgot the rest of the world is on hold watching footy for a month this summer....

[Sir McGiven]

24 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

Spot on. To be relevant internationally, it has to matter domestically.

International success - or even relevancy - will in turn grow the sport domestically. Otherwise we're just another country that gets out of the group stage every 2-3 cycles and is ok with that. 

We had a huge surge of interest during the last WC - The networks hyped it, people watched, American Outlaw chapters sprung up all over the country, MLS  benefitted, expanding from 19 to 23 teams (3 more confirmed in the next 2 years) But, there is a significant percentage of those people that forget about it for four years, like the Olympic sports. But there are those that got the "soccer bug" by following the USMNT in the WC,  and while you "have" them, there is a much better chance that they start watching MLS or EPL when it starts back on TV a month later.  They recognize the foreign players they saw now playing for their club teams, or want to watch the US guys with their clubs and start to really follow the sport.  That's important, IMO, to getting a wider audience - especially in the areas that don't have an MLS team, or any real domestic presence (which is most of the country).  That's one of the many reason it sucks so much that we aren't in this year, we are missing that window of hype that comes every 4 years. The ones that tuned in for 2014, but lost interest afterwards, you are now waiting 8 years to have that opportunity to really grab them again. I'm sure to non-Americans that's absurd to think of the sport in those terms, because it's just always been the predominate sport in most of the world.  But over here people have said it's set us back 4 years, 10 years, 20 years etc...I don't necessarily agree with all that, but us not making the WC certainly is a significant setback, not only for US Soccer, but the sport in general domestically. 

I'm sure the networks that have the US Broadcast rights - NBCSports (EPL) and FoxSports (FA Cup, EUFA, World Cup) - have the data that will either show a decline or at least a decline in growth in the post-2018 WC viewership compared to the post-2014 WC viewership of their European coverage. 

We have a tremendous untapped portion of the population that could really contribute to significant domestic growth of the sport. But if that portion collectively has A.D.D. then we just lost most of them for a few years because they saw a big fat furry squirrel and forgot the rest of the world is on hold watching footy for a month this summer....

Well, hyping things, perfect PR jobs are American style. Another thing is, football is evolving (actually already evolved) into business. So, as you guys are experts of it, it'll be another advantage. As long as there is enough interest from American citizens, there will be at least one to try to turn it into gold. Signing popular footballers who are at the end of their careers is a good move but also a risk. They can share their experiences with young US footballers and mentor them. Their popularity will inspire public interest. (Zlatan, perfect move.) Hosting summer camps for global teams such as Real Madrid, Man U., Bayern Munich etc. The risk here is while doing those things to boost the interest, becoming Qatar. I mean, a retirement home for footballers but the American version of it.

I think you guys need to run a campaign for the next available WC. It's been a while since the last time  A month full of football festival with global football superstars around will do a perfect work over there.

[Bailey]

7 hours ago, Ghoat said:

I have read pundits saying why it was a mistake, and others saying why it made sense. The fact that equally compelling arguments came be made show how loaded Germany is. From a 'Merican perspective it's just mind boggling at the gulf- if he walked into our camp, he would be the best player on the squad, and it wouldn't be close. And he is Germany's 24th or 25th best player.

Ok, you can't say that due to positions, 3 GK's, defenders etc. but that Low can legitimately rate 5-6 attacking players higher...just damn. They have an embarrassment of riches.

I would look at him as a game changer, pure and simple. He is better than Brandt and Draxler in my opinion but I can also understand that he might not be what the manager is looking for tactically. 

It is sad though as he would be our best player!

[Sir McGiven]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I would look at him as a game changer, pure and simple. He is better than Brandt and Draxler in my opinion but I can also understand that he might not be what the manager is looking for tactically. 

It is sad though as he would be our best player!

Other German sources say he also had troubles to get along with other players and didn't fit into tactic in Low's mind. He wants their wingers to play as inside forwards but Sane prefers to run near the touchline, this one thing he couldn't adapt himself and also rumours are Ozil, Muller and some other majors warned him many times during the game cuz of his selfishness but he didn't care. So if these things are true, players didn't want him too.

I do agree he is way better than Brandt and Draxler and it will be a disappointment to not see him in WC but it wouldn't be easy to leave a player out of his calibre without acceptable excuses. Low is a successful manager and alongside of his nose-picking skills, he is also good at picking right players for his tactic so I trust his consideration.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jun/06/fifa-world-cup-racism-homophobia-infantino-hardline-approach

[Sibdane]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/jun/06/fifa-world-cup-racism-homophobia-infantino-hardline-approach

We'll see what happens, but I'm not holding my breath.

I highly doubt Russia has taken a dramatic U-turn when it comes to racism.

[Romey 1878]

16 hours ago, tonkaroost said:

We'll see what happens, but I'm not holding my breath.

I highly doubt Russia has taken a dramatic U-turn when it comes to racism.

I see it being littered with incidents that they do nothing about.

[Ghoat]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I see it being littered with incidents that they do nothing about.

It's toothless. And it's impossible. Racism is a human/society condition that has always existed and always will. Doesn't mean it's ok or acceptable, but you can't just 
"ban it". If that was the case, just pass a law banning stupidity and the world would be a better place. Or, pass laws against killing people so that would stop. Oh, wait. 

[Romey 1878]

Spain sack their manager a day before the start of the World Cup!

[aaron]

58 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Spain sack their manager a day before the start of the World Cup!

Mental isn'tt it! I get why but its still absolutely mental.

[MikeO]

US, Mexico & Canada jointly to host 2026....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44464913

Does that mean all three get automatic qualification?

[Romey 1878]

9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

US, Mexico & Canada jointly to host 2026....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44464913

Does that mean all three get automatic qualification?

 

 

[markjazzbassist]

Mexico will qualify regardless, us should. Canada usually never makes it.  So if they did give auto qualify it would really only benefit Canada.

[rubecula]

7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Mexico will qualify regardless, us should. Canada usually never makes it.  So if they did give auto qualify it would really only benefit Canada.

 Be a nice surprise if the did though, I do generally have a soft spot for Canada.
 

[holystove]

Concacaf only gets three countries, right?  WC18= costa rica, mexico and panama.. so if mexico, US and canada qualify automatically there will be no concacaf qualifiers?

[Louis]

There'll be six concacaf teams, a possible seventh. 

Quote

 

Ratification of the proposal recommended by the Bureau of the Council during its meeting on 30 March 2017, according to which the direct berths for the FIFA World Cup as of the 2026 edition are split as follows*:

. AFC: 8.5 slots 

· CAF: 9.5 slots 

· CONCACAF: 6.5 slots 

· CONMEBOL: 6.5 slots 

· OFC: 1.5 slot 

· UEFA: 16 slots

 

So. three places will be allocated to hosts, and the other three will be earned through qualification.

 

[aaron]

isn'tt the 2026 world cup 48 teams as well?

[Louis]

Add up the slots and see. 

[holystove]

17 minutes ago, Louis said:

Add up the slots and see. 

They add up to 48,5 .. one team with 5,5 players? 

[Bailey]

18 minutes ago, holystove said:

They add up to 48,5 .. one team with 5,5 players? 

Thats what I was just trying to work out! 

How do you even get a half slot anyway?

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Thats what I was just trying to work out! 

How do you even get a half slot anyway?

That half a slot goes to a big brown envelope. 

[markjazzbassist]

The half slot is a playoff.  

[Ghoat]

4 hours ago, holystove said:

They add up to 48,5 .. one team with 5,5 players? 

Or a team with really short players, like say, Japan.