2018 World Cup

[Sir McGiven]

9 minutes ago, tonkaroost said:

Still think Messi is better than Ronaldo. No one steps up for Argentina but Messi. That was Aguero's first goal in a World Cup, and he didn't score in any of the qualifiers. 

Portugal can win without Ronaldo, as proven by the last Euro. Argentina would lose without Messi. 

I always feel bad for him, because his own country barely supports him because of that low-life Maradona. No one has more pressure in a national team setup than Messi.

I think the opposite. Messi's teammates were always better than Ronaldo's. Portugal team is not talented as Argentina team is. Of course, it is not Messi's fault that they cannot perform but his performance is also far from being any good.

[Sibdane]

4 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

I think the opposite. Messi's teammates were always better than Ronaldo's. Portugal team is not talented as Argentina team is. Of course, it is not Messi's fault that they cannot perform but his performance is also far from being any good.

Not arguing about Argentina's talent but more of those talents don't show up for the big games. Messi pretty much pushed Argentina through the qualifiers by himself.

[markjazzbassist]

Well earned pen for Peru.  Cueva skies it!!   Pressure must have gotten to him.

[Sir McGiven]

Peru was better but cannot say Denmark did not deserve it. (If it ends like this in last 10 min.) It was the most entertaining match for me so far.

[markjazzbassist]

Peru deserves the win, i hope they nick one here

[markjazzbassist]

carillo and cueva both looked good for peru.  too bad cueva missed that penalty.  i loved their intensity and how they pressed the entire match, great game to watch.

[Ghoat]

Croatia vs Nigeria - The pasty white Slavs in light kits, and the midnight dark Africans in a dark green - the kits are swallowing both sides!

 

Nigeria's GK wearing dark purple when his team is in dark green...in a scrum, he blends in with this team, there isn'tt enough contrast for me.

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, Sir McGiven said:

Messi again, going to be a huge disappointment. Of course, it can not be considered after 1 game but this is why I've always thought Ronaldo is better.

Also, I just don't understand why Dybala is not on the pitch? Maximiliano Meza is there but not Dybala? Interesting choice...

Messi will be disappointed that he didnt score the pen or do better with the free kicks in the second half but he was involved in everything good that Argentina did. He was superb, end product aside and that isnt like him. 

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Well deserved Iceland.  Gotta say Ronaldo relishes the big game and ups his game, Messi seems to vanish in them.

Vanished? He was probably durectly involved in more chances and had more shots than the rest of the two sides put together. End product failed him today but his contribution to Argentina's performance was bigger than Ronaldo's in every capacity bar the goals. Goals are a big part of the game and Ronaldo did that fantastically last night but to say Messi didnt turn up is a joke.

4 hours ago, Sir McGiven said:

I think the opposite. Messi's teammates were always better than Ronaldo's. Portugal team is not talented as Argentina team is. Of course, it is not Messi's fault that they cannot perform but his performance is also far from being any good.

Portugal play as a team and have done for a while now whereas Argentina havent. They are traditionally a group of ill disciplined glory merchants. I saw signs today that they were more of a team than they have been and they should have put Iceland away but the fact remains that Portugal will play as a group, with or without Ronaldo (as they did in the Euro final), whereas Argentina wont and thats a big reason as to why Argentina continue to fail as an international side.

[Palfy]

40 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

Croatia vs Nigeria - The pasty white Slavs in light kits, and the midnight dark Africans in a dark green - the kits are swallowing both sides!

 

Nigeria's GK wearing dark purple when his team is in dark green...in a scrum, he blends in with this team, there isn'ttt enough contrast for me.

Thanks for the fashion tips ( Ralph Lauren)  Ghoat going out tonight what colour trousers should I wear with a dark blue shirt

[Ghoat]

Just now, Palfy said:

Thanks for the fashion tips ( Ralph Lauren)  Ghoat going out tonight what colour trousers should I wear with a dark blue shirt

Something bold - perhaps with stripes!

[rubecula]

Just now, Ghoat said:

Something bold - perhaps with stripes!

yellow stripes will hide the stains 

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ghoat going out tonight what colour trousers should I wear with a dark blue shirt

White shorts, what else?

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Messi will be disappointed that he didnt score the pen or do better with the free kicks in the second half but he was involved in everything good that Argentina did. He was superb, end product aside and that isnt like him. 

Vanished? He was probably durectly involved in more chances and had more shots than the rest of the two sides put together. End product failed him today but his contribution to Argentina's performance was bigger than Ronaldo's in every capacity bar the goals. Goals are a big part of the game and Ronaldo did that fantastically last night but to say Messi didnt turn up is a joke.

Portugal play as a team and have done for a while now whereas Argentina havent. They are traditionally a group of ill disciplined glory merchants. I saw signs today that they were more of a team than they have been and they should have put Iceland away but the fact remains that Portugal will play as a group, with or without Ronaldo (as they did in the Euro final), whereas Argentina wont and thats a big reason as to why Argentina continue to fail as an international side.

You're absolutely right, Bailey. It doesn't make it any easier that the Argentinian press puts so much pressure on Messi whereas Ronaldo is viewed as Portugal's saviour. 

If the USA had a player like Messi he would be revered to no extent. They really don't know what they have. 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Messi will be disappointed that he didnt score the pen or do better with the free kicks in the second half but he was involved in everything good that Argentina did. He was superb, end product aside and that isnt like him. 

Vanished? He was probably durectly involved in more chances and had more shots than the rest of the two sides put together. End product failed him today but his contribution to Argentina's performance was bigger than Ronaldo's in every capacity bar the goals. Goals are a big part of the game and Ronaldo did that fantastically last night but to say Messi didnt turn up is a joke.

Portugal play as a team and have done for a while now whereas Argentina havent. They are traditionally a group of ill disciplined glory merchants. I saw signs today that they were more of a team than they have been and they should have put Iceland away but the fact remains that Portugal will play as a group, with or without Ronaldo (as they did in the Euro final), whereas Argentina wont and thats a big reason as to why Argentina continue to fail as an international side.

Not surprised you’ve said your admiration for Messi before. I thought he was running into a wall all day, Banega was the guy who came on and starting unlocking the door.  They were a different side with him in there.  Messi a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me.  

[Sibdane]

3 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Not surprised you’ve said your admiration for Messi before. I thought he was running into a wall all day, Banega was the guy who came on and starting unlocking the door.  They were a different side with him in there.  Messi a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me.  

That blows my mind. It was obvious that Argentina relies on Messi. They passed it to him every chance they could, as always. His missed penalty knocks him down, but I'd give him a 7.5 out of 10. 

There's just too much pressure/expectation on him.  It's sick. 

[Bailey]

44 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Not surprised you’ve said your admiration for Messi before. I thought he was running into a wall all day, Banega was the guy who came on and starting unlocking the door.  They were a different side with him in there.  Messi a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me.  

Admire the one of the greatest players to ever play the game? Is that really a surprise? 

I didnt think Banega did that much, definitely a step up on Biglia but thats it. 

Messi had 11 shots, 9 dribbles, controllee 7.4%, 2nd highest touches of anyone on the field, 5th highest passer. In comparison Ronaldo had 4 shots, no dribbles, 3.1% possession and the 13th highest passer on the field. 

It was simply not the case that Messi 'vanished'. You either didnt watch the game, are jumping on the media Ronaldo bum boy bandwagen or you have poorly chosen your words on this occasion.

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Admire the one of the greatest players to ever play the game? Is that really a surprise? 

I didnt think Banega did that much, definitely a step up on Biglia but thats it. 

Messi had 11 shots, 9 dribbles, controllee 7.4%, 2nd highest touches of anyone on the field, 5th highest passer. In comparison Ronaldo had 4 shots, no dribbles, 3.1% possession and the 13th highest passer on the field. 

It was simply not the case that Messi 'vanished'. You either didnt watch the game, are jumping on the media Ronaldo bum boy bandwagen or you have poorly chosen your words on this occasion.

lol i watched the whole game.  i don't think ronaldo is better than him (just that he shows up in the big matches almost more so than the small time ones), never said that so not sure where you got that from.  i just think he vanishes in big games.  iceland threw numbers at him, if he were smarter he would realize this left tons of space for other players and would utilize it by making runs into the box and by dumping the ball off the minute he saw a double/triple/quad team coming.  he didn't, he kept trying to run through 4 men on his own and got dispossessed on the edge of the box.  sure he might be 1, 2, even 3 of them, but he can't waltz through all of them and he didn't.  bar one shot outside the box wide left and bar the free kicks he wasn't a threat on goal at all.  i'm sure his stats were fine and all but the eye test showed a man frustrated to get in the box.  honestly it reminded me so much of martinez days.  pass about the box and pass back and pass around and try a flick or whatever but no penetration and no real threat.  it pains me to say that since i love their manager sampaoli so much, but he really isn'ttt doing the same job with them as he did Chile or Sevilla.  

 

greatest player in the world, most skills, etc sure all day long.  but the fact is he didn't show up in the CL and he's not showing up here.

[Sir McGiven]

Actually, both are great. Why thinking as Ronaldo is better than Messi, means someone jumping on a bandwagon? 

Ronaldo gets bigger on bigger occasions, Messi cannot do the same. He vanishes, it is the fact. He cannot produce without his masterminded friends at Barça. This, that, something else can be a reason for it but there is a fact I'll tell ya as you guys mentioned it as well; even though Ronaldo is looking better at the moment, Portugal is playing as a team. Argentina is more talented individually but you cannot win WC with a one-man show. 

That's why I think "Messi and Dybala cannot play together" is the dumbest manager thing I've ever heard. It was written all over once that Messi doesn't like Dybala and he doesn't want him in the squad. Argentinian managers are puppies of Messi, I believe he is making the team sheet.

Underlining again, both are great but I'd like to see Dybala & Mbappe on my team instead Ronaldo & Messi, lol.

[c1982]

14 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

carillo and cueva both looked good for peru.  too bad cueva missed that penalty.  i loved their intensity and how they pressed the entire match, great game to watch.

Carrillo may well end up at EFC - Silva got him on loan at Watford and obvious Portuguese league links.

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, c1982 said:

Carrillo may well end up at EFC - Silva got him on loan at Watford and obvious Portuguese league links.

i didn't know that, that's cool!  yeah he was working his ass off and being a constant threat all match.  his pace energy and work rate (the whole team really) was great, that's what we need.

[Bailey]

10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

lol i watched the whole game.  i don't think ronaldo is better than him (just that he shows up in the big matches almost more so than the small time ones), never said that so not sure where you got that from.  i just think he vanishes in big games.  iceland threw numbers at him, if he were smarter he would realize this left tons of space for other players and would utilize it by making runs into the box and by dumping the ball off the minute he saw a double/triple/quad team coming.  he didn't, he kept trying to run through 4 men on his own and got dispossessed on the edge of the box.  sure he might be 1, 2, even 3 of them, but he can't waltz through all of them and he didn't.  bar one shot outside the box wide left and bar the free kicks he wasn't a threat on goal at all.  i'm sure his stats were fine and all but the eye test showed a man frustrated to get in the box.  honestly it reminded me so much of martinez days.  pass about the box and pass back and pass around and try a flick or whatever but no penetration and no real threat.  it pains me to say that since i love their manager sampaoli so much, but he really isn'tttt doing the same job with them as he did Chile or Sevilla.  

 

greatest player in the world, most skills, etc sure all day long.  but the fact is he didn't show up in the CL and he's not showing up here.

If Messi was smarter? He is one of the most intelligent footballers in the game. He was constantly moving himself into space. He wasnt helped by his teammates ignoring better options and giving it to him in truth. Its just crazy to say that the guy being double (plus) teamed, who still managed to bring the output he did 'vanished'. 

You seem to also ignore the team they were playing. Iceland are such a hardworking, well drilled side that the only space is side to side, and the recycling possession. Argentina created enough chances to win the game, or got into enough positions to see the game off so I dont think you can really blame Sampaoli for that. He needed his players to take their chances when they came, and one penalty miss aside and another not given, they should have won the match. It was the little runs from Messi, the angles he was creating, the runs into the box (albeit not enough IMO) that were the main driving force in the game, that later became assisted by Banega who probed and moved more than Biglia and then the right winger who came on and got to the byline. 

I dont really agree about the CL either however its factual that he showed up yesterday. He fluffed his lines, maybe you could say he choked a little, but he definitely turned up.

4 hours ago, Sir McGiven said:

Actually, both are great. Why thinking as Ronaldo is better than Messi, means someone jumping on a bandwagon? 

Ronaldo gets bigger on bigger occasions, Messi cannot do the same. He vanishes, it is the fact. He cannot produce without his masterminded friends at Barça. This, that, something else can be a reason for it but there is a fact I'll tell ya as you guys mentioned it as well; even though Ronaldo is looking better at the moment, Portugal is playing as a team. Argentina is more talented individually but you cannot win WC with a one-man show. 

That's why I think "Messi and Dybala cannot play together" is the dumbest manager thing I've ever heard. It was written all over once that Messi doesn't like Dybala and he doesn't want him in the squad. Argentinian managers are puppies of Messi, I believe he is making the team sheet.

Underlining again, both are great but I'd like to see Dybala & Mbappe on my team instead Ronaldo & Messi, lol.

I used the bandwagon term as a possible reason for the comments made because the whole vanished comment clearly isnt true. I'm not saying its the case but I gave 3 possible reasons that I could think of.

I'm not denying that Ronaldo stood up against Spain but he was largely irrelevant in the CL final as far as I can remember however that is usually never the case. Ronaldo very much plays for himself. I dont say that as a negative, because he is an incredible footballer but his ego is that these big stages are for him, not necessarily the team he is playing for, and for all his qualities Messi doesnt have the same single-mindedness. Take the two games in question. Messi was popping up everywhere for Argentina, playing for the team and probably negatively impacting on his own performance whereas Ronaldo is there ready for the 'moment', not trying to do the work of others, simply waiting for his time to shine. Effectively one is a playmaker and one is a finisher. Im not saying one is better or more important than the other but its wrong to diminish or disregard the performance of Messi as 'not turning up' or 'vanishing' when he clearly didnt. He might have fluffed his lines, contrasting to Ronaldo who took the script from the director and wrote his own lines, but Messi was involved in every page whereas Ronaldo just had the best parts at the begining, middle and end.

I dont get the Dybala thing either tbh especially given the winger Meza was crap but I dont know enough about him to say how good or bad the decision was from Sampaoli. Meza was clearly the weakest link though. 

[Sir McGiven]

Maybe "vanishing" is not the best description but clearly, people (including me) thinks that he is getting lost to make an impact under the same/similar circumstances. I mean, when everything depends on them. I think the reason is, Ronaldo is mentally stronger than Messi. He is more focused, adapted to succeed. 

Besides Messi-Ronaldo thing, I don't think Argentina is at its best because of managerial issues. I mean look at Portugal, their super-sub is 34 years old Quaresma. Hot prospect Guedes was terribly bad and Quaresma was the first option. On the other hand, Argentina's super-subs are Higuain, Dybala etc. My prediction is, they are going to fail again. Not sure if Messi going to declare his retirement from International football again.

[nogs]

On 16/06/2018 at 09:13, Sir McGiven said:

 

So it is easy to say, WC officially started with that game's kick-off.

Ronaldo is a beast. An egomaniac maybe, arrogant, bla bla... He can be anything but he is also good. He is always adapted, hungry to succeed. 33 years old and carrying the whole Portuguese side.

Just to give my two penneth on Messi v Ronaldo - for me Ronaldo is and always has been an exceptional goalscorer. Quick, strong, good in the air, two good feet, can score from distance and deadly in the box. The fact that he started out as a winger and used to like a step over (comically so in his early days at Man Utd) masked his true talent - scoring goals. 

For me Messi is the other way. He too started out as an out an out winger with an abnormally low centre of gravity and a wonderful ability in front of goal. But the side of his game that gets overlooked is his passing and vision. He creates far, far more for team mates than Ronaldo, and for me that makes him the more complete player. They will always be compared because they play at the same time and both score ridiculous numbers of goals. But Ronaldo belongs in the Ronaldo, Romario, Puskas, Dean category of great goal scorers; Messi belongs in the Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane bracket of great creative players because he offers more as a team player. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

first big upset with mexico beating germany the title holders.  

[Sir McGiven]

Lack of strikers caused Germany a win. They never credited Klose enough (until late of his career) but they are going to miss him. Timo Werner, an over-rated player for me so far, can't believe how Loew let him play 90 min... (Opinion based on this year's Champions League - Bundesliga & Today's Game)

Lozano, my golden boy... He scored as I was expecting. I hope we can see him at Everton this year.

[nogs]

3 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

 

Lozano, my golden boy... He scored as I was expecting. I hope we can see him at Everton this year.

That goal has just added 20 million to his price tag. 

[Sir McGiven]

Just now, nogs said:

That goal has just added 20 million to his price tag. 

I know right? Argh, I wanted to see him in the blue shirt before WC, so badly. It didn't happen.

[nogs]

5 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

I know right? Argh, I wanted to see him in the blue shirt before WC, so badly. It didn't happen.

Thought Milinkovic-Savic looked the D's B's for Serbia earlier too, another one I'd love to think we had a chance with but who will probably move on for silly money after this tournament. 

[Sir McGiven]

17 minutes ago, nogs said:

Thought Milinkovic-Savic looked the D's B's for Serbia earlier too, another one I'd love to think we had a chance with but who will probably move on for silly money after this tournament. 

Yes, he is another prospect and looked good in the match. I am also expecting a big-money move for him.

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Sir McGiven said:

Maybe "vanishing" is not the best description but clearly, people (including me) thinks that he is getting lost to make an impact under the same/similar circumstances. I mean, when everything depends on them. I think the reason is, Ronaldo is mentally stronger than Messi. He is more focused, adapted to succeed. 

Besides Messi-Ronaldo thing, I don't think Argentina is at its best because of managerial issues. I mean look at Portugal, their super-sub is 34 years old Quaresma. Hot prospect Guedes was terribly bad and Quaresma was the first option. On the other hand, Argentina's super-subs are Higuain, Dybala etc. My prediction is, they are going to fail again. Not sure if Messi going to declare his retirement from International football again.

I would agree with the second part of that first paragraph. Ronaldo is pure and simply more clinical and ruthless. Ronaldo is physically the perfect footballer whereas Messi is a nerd! I am not debating whether that may or may not have happened in other games, I was just highlighting that Messi was heavily involved against Iceland and clearly turned up, without things necessarily going his way.

Argentina have been terrible due to their managerial issues for a long time but Sampaoli is good manager, albeit he is naturally a risk taking one. I was surprised he started with two DMs but as I have said before, they should have won the game. Portugal dont have anywhere near the same depth but they have been together for a long time and they are really discplined and organised. They are probably the last two words you would use to describe an Argentinian side! I get the feeling Messi could do without the pressure of the national team, the expectancy that he will win every game for them, but again that comes from bad/mis-management.

3 minutes ago, nogs said:

Thought Milinkovic-Savic looked the D's B's for Serbia earlier too, another one I'd love to think we had a chance with but who will probably move on for silly money after this tournament. 

He was superb, again he is another than probably should have come away with a goal / assist but he was fantastic throughout. Strong, quick, skillful.