Sheffield United 2nd Sept (Away)

[Bailey]

19 hours ago, Shukes said:

Sorry mate but it’s not the choices at all. 
If Danjuma is running to the bye line and turns back… that’s a poor choice.

If he runs to the bye line and hits it too far, that’s the right choice but poor execution. 
 

There is not a world anywhere that I won’t disagree with you there. 
I teach U12s how to play football and by all accounts I get 100% good feedback. I tell them all the time that I don’t care where your shot ends up…but play as I teach you and it WILL come! Decision making is more important than ability. 
 

English mentality is what holds us back. Only we can change that. 

I completely agree about decision making, its one of the most important attributes in any sport (or indeed life!).

That first half, Danjuma had simple decisions to make and he made the wrong ones. The 4 v 2 was the prime example because that was criminal, but he had another cut back on that he spurned, and he took a heavy touch on another occasion when we should have got a shot on goal. At least one of those should have ended up in the back of the net. 

We wont get those chances every week and if he has to mess 3 up a week to get something right, then we will struggle more than we are. When we play a decent team and he barely gets a touch and continues to waste brilliant attacking positions then see how you feel.

Credit to him for going and going and I suspect the output will come at some stage but he is overcomplicating what should be simple decisions at that level of football, usually for his own glory too. 

[Bailey]

Oh and @Shukes I haven't once criticised him for being attacking and direct, its just that if there is no end product, or a consistent enough end product, or worse still if he is killing off chances, we as a team are no better off. 

It's early days with him so that might well improve.

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I completely agree about decision making, its one of the most important attributes in any sport (or indeed life!).

That first half, Danjuma had simple decisions to make and he made the wrong ones. The 4 v 2 was the prime example because that was criminal, but he had another cut back on that he spurned, and he took a heavy touch on another occasion when we should have got a shot on goal. At least one of those should have ended up in the back of the net. 

We wont get those chances every week and if he has to mess 3 up a week to get something right, then we will struggle more than we are. When we play a decent team and he barely gets a touch and continues to waste brilliant attacking positions then see how you feel.

Credit to him for going and going and I suspect the output will come at some stage but he is overcomplicating what should be simple decisions at that level of football, usually for his own glory too. 

Your examples are saying that it was his execution and not decision making that we’re wrong, other than the 4 v 2.

Im sore he didn’t decide to take a heavy touch… that’s execution. The pull back wasn’t the wrong decision, it was bad execution.

We've scored two goals after four games. He has scored 50% of them. Doucs has scored 50% of them and ducked up way more. So are you saying we need to drop all the other players that have missed those chances or made the wrong decisions?

Because if so Bailey, we literally have no team left. Or is it ok for other players to do it? 
 

Have you actually saw our chances created stats so far? We’re up there at the top. But we have only scored two goals. It doesn’t take a football expert to see that our players have either made the wrong decisions or that the execution has been wrong. We’re not talking Danjuma here, but the whole team.

But we want to take the player out of the team that has actually scored a two goals this week. That’s absolute madness…. Nothing more, just absolute madness.

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Oh and @Shukes I haven't once criticised him for being attacking and direct, its just that if there is no end product, or a consistent enough end product, or worse still if he is killing off chances, we as a team are no better off. 

It's early days with him so that might well improve.

Two goals in two games are proving you’re completely wrong. There is no discussion here mate, you’re just completely wrong. 
 

End product is scoring goals. Or getting assists. He is doing exactly that. 
 

Im not even sure why we’re having this discussion. I feel we’re talking about flat here.

No end product… but he just scored our equaliser? Ye like I said no end product… what’s end product? Scoring a goal… like he just did? No, he has no end product!

Im absolutely lost haha.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

Two goals in two games are proving you’re completely wrong. There is no discussion here mate, you’re just completely wrong. 
 

End product is scoring goals. Or getting assists. He is doing exactly that. 
 

Im not even sure why we’re having this discussion. I feel we’re talking about flat here.

No end product… but he just scored our equaliser? Ye like I said no end product… what’s end product? Scoring a goal… like he just did? No, he has no end product!

Im absolutely lost haha.

There’s a balance shukes.   All very well quoting stats etc, in an overload the players are drilled to make the extra man count, to ignore a pass is bad shit. Pep goes ballistic at this. 
 

yeah there are times when a player can be selfish where passing doesn’t create a bigger advantage or there is a risk it gets cut out. 

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

There’s a balance shukes.   All very well quoting stats etc, in an overload the players are drilled to make the extra man count, to ignore a pass is bad shit. Pep goes ballistic at this. 
 

yeah there are times when a player can be selfish where passing doesn’t create a bigger advantage or there is a risk it gets cut out. 

You’re talking about a bad decision in that instance.

When a player tries to pull the ball back and gets it wrong… that’s bad execution… not a bad decision.

When he takes a heavy touch. That’s also bad execution, not a bad decision. If any of you guys think on his mind he thought… you know, I’ll take a heavy rough here….. then you simply don’t have a clue, sorry Haf.

And when we’re talking about end product when we have struggled like hell to score goals, and a guy scores two in two matches…. Again, that’s end product right there. A goal is simply an end product. 
 

Tell you what, I’m not discussing this anymore as I’m arguing with people that just aren’t using logic. And that makes me a fool.

I respect your opinions, but in this instance, it’s not opinion… your just wrong. So I’m gonna let it go and accept that he needs benching because there is no end product. And we’re on zero points.

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, Shukes said:

You’re talking about a bad decision in that instance.

When a player tries to pull the ball back and gets it wrong… that’s bad execution… not a bad decision.

When he takes a heavy touch. That’s also bad execution, not a bad decision. If any of you guys think on his mind he thought… you know, I’ll take a heavy rough here….. then you simply don’t have a clue, sorry Haf.

And when we’re talking about end product when we have struggled like hell to score goals, and a guy scores two in two matches…. Again, that’s end product right there. A goal is simply an end product. 
 

Tell you what, I’m not discussing this anymore as I’m arguing with people that just aren’t using logic. And that makes me a fool.

I respect your opinions, but in this instance, it’s not opinion… your just wrong. So I’m gonna let it go and accept that he needs benching because there is no end product. And we’re on zero points.

Put your drum kit away mate, in the nicest possible way you are talking bollocks And no more throwing your dummy out the pram your getting like me, not a good thing

[Matt]

 

 

[Shukes]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Put your drum kit away mate, in the nicest possible way you are talking bollocks And no more throwing your dummy out the pram your getting like me, not a good thing

Na mate, I’m 100% right. I’ve played football and watched it.  Don’t think I’ve ever came across a player that decides to take a poor touch or tries to miss a pass. 
Anyone that thinks that’s a choice is just plain stupid sorry mate.or maybe a bit deluded… either way it’s nothing to do with opinion, it’s actual fact.

But not explaining it again. Anyone that doesn’t get it at this point… will never understand it.

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Na mate, I’m 100% right. I’ve played football and watched it.  Don’t think I’ve ever came across a player that decides to take a poor touch or tries to miss a pass. 
Anyone that thinks that’s a choice is just plain stupid sorry mate.or maybe a bit deluded… either way it’s nothing to do with opinion, it’s actual fact.

But not explaining it again. Anyone that doesn’t get it at this point… will never understand it.

You are and I've not seen flying pigs or anything!

 

[Palfy]

9 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Na mate, I’m 100% right. I’ve played football and watched it.  Don’t think I’ve ever came across a player that decides to take a poor touch or tries to miss a pass. 
Anyone that thinks that’s a choice is just plain stupid sorry mate.or maybe a bit deluded… either way it’s nothing to do with opinion, it’s actual fact.

But not explaining it again. Anyone that doesn’t get it at this point… will never understand it.

Who said that he decided to take a poor touch, who said he tried to miss a pass, who said drop him, I think you’ve dreamt that up mate because I’ve gone back through the posts and no one has mentioned that bar you to create an argument that doesn’t exist. The fact that he scored doesn’t mean that he can’t be critiqued for making bad choices in other passages play in the game, what you are saying is because a player scores he can do no wrong, try telling that to Pep when he ripped Haaland a new one a couple of weeks ago after he had scored, but after he made a wrong decision that wasn’t made for the good of the team but made presumably for the benefit of just Haaland. And that’s all I’ve seen him being criticised for, that on a couple of occasions he tried to take it on for himself when he should have looked for the better option which was the pass. And if you are so knowledgeable and played football at a high level and have your coaching badges, you more than most should know that if you have the ability it means fuck all if you don’t make the right decisions. When I worked in football in the community for Swindon I saw hundreds of lads who had skills on the ball, all they did is practice their step overs turns and flicks but never possessed a football brain, now I’m not saying he hasn’t got a football brain he clearly has, he just needs to forget about doing it all on his own more times than not and make better decisions.

 

[Btay]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

 

 

Thanks for that mate!

[Shukes]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

Who said that he decided to take a poor touch, who said he tried to miss a pass, who said drop him, I think you’ve dreamt that up mate because I’ve gone back through the posts and no one has mentioned that bar you to create an argument that doesn’t exist. The fact that he scored doesn’t mean that he can’t be critiqued for making bad choices in other passages play in the game, what you are saying is because a player scores he can do no wrong, try telling that to Pep when he ripped Haaland a new one a couple of weeks ago after he had scored, but after he made a wrong decision that wasn’t made for the good of the team but made presumably for the benefit of just Haaland. And that’s all I’ve seen him being criticised for, that on a couple of occasions he tried to take it on for himself when he should have looked for the better option which was the pass. And if you are so knowledgeable and played football at a high level and have your coaching badges, you more than most should know that if you have the ability it means fuck all if you don’t make the right decisions. When I worked in football in the community for Swindon I saw hundreds of lads who had skills on the ball, all they did is practice their step overs turns and flicks but never possessed a football brain, now I’m not saying he hasn’t got a football brain he clearly has, he just needs to forget about doing it all on his own more times than not and make better decisions.

 

Palfy your not stupid mate.

You can see clearly what’s been said. 
Werw talking about the difference between a player making choices or having a bad touch/pass. It’s above you in black and white.

By your own logic… I haven’t said that a player can’t be criticised because he scored…. When I clearly point out several times that the passage is okay when he was 4 v 2 was a bad CHOICE. 
But the pull back WAS’NT a choice, but poor execution. Same as the heavy touch…. Which just to point out we’re the passages of play that we’re brought up, not by me. So I’m not creating an argument that’s not there, I’m responding to what’s been said…. Or aren’t I allowed to because it doesn’t follow a narrative? Mate I don’t get bullied in real life and I certainly won’t shy to anyone internet warriors…. Which means I won’t just agree because a couple of people have each others backs haha.

That’s what this whole conversation is about.

We’re also talking about end product. I’m not going to quote as it’s clearly there several times, and honestly you’ve said you have read back… but have you? It’s there mate! 
 

And I don’t care how anyone twists it, goals ARE end product. I have played football at a decent level, I also coach football. And it’s always been the same, I don’t think anything has changed. The goal of football is to put the ball in the oppositions net. It’s not to keep possession.

If you don’t agree, that’s fine. But I won’t change my mind. I will criticise when I feel it’s justified and I will praise when I feel it’s justified.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Palfy your not stupid mate.

You can see clearly what’s been said. 
Werw talking about the difference between a player making choices or having a bad touch/pass. It’s above you in black and white.

By your own logic… I haven’t said that a player can’t be criticised because he scored…. When I clearly point out several times that the passage is okay when he was 4 v 2 was a bad CHOICE. 
But the pull back WAS’NT a choice, but poor execution. Same as the heavy touch…. Which just to point out we’re the passages of play that we’re brought up, not by me. So I’m not creating an argument that’s not there, I’m responding to what’s been said…. Or aren’t I allowed to because it doesn’t follow a narrative? Mate I don’t get bullied in real life and I certainly won’t shy to anyone internet warriors…. Which means I won’t just agree because a couple of people have each others backs haha.

That’s what this whole conversation is about.

We’re also talking about end product. I’m not going to quote as it’s clearly there several times, and honestly you’ve said you have read back… but have you? It’s there mate! 
 

And I don’t care how anyone twists it, goals ARE end product. I have played football at a decent level, I also coach football. And it’s always been the same, I don’t think anything has changed. The goal of football is to put the ball in the oppositions net. It’s not to keep possession.

If you don’t agree, that’s fine. But I won’t change my mind. I will criticise when I feel it’s justified and I will praise when I feel it’s justified.

Nobody is twisting anything of course goals win games just as much as bad decisions lose games, if you feel you are being bullied by me or anyone else on here, then please highlight and I’m sure the mods will give you any support you require, I’ll be honest and frank with you I’ve gone through the posts again and haven’t noticed any bullying towards you, people have been debating with you and show a different opinion that’s not bullying Shukes that’s debating. Some people believe he could have done things better which could have possibly had a better outcome from the team, is that wrong to mention that because you don’t agree No it’s not is it really mate it’s just different opinions. From my perspective I’m not upset with him for a miss controlled touch and I’m not upset about an over hit pass I’d rather see an over hit pass than no attempt at a pass for me that’s making the right decision even if not executed correctly. My big bearwas that on a couple of occasions he put his blinkers on and instead of putting a cross into the area when he had the opportunity he decided to cut back in from the byline with one thought in his mind that he was going to get to the edge of the area and have a shot, and nothing come off he was surrounded by defenders and any attempt easily blocked, now I know he wants to score goals he has said it in his interviews and I get that I would rather have players who can and want to score but not at any cost, on one occasion Beto made a great run against his man got in front of him and Danjuma didn’t deliver the ball, he instead tried to cut back in on massey run and it fizzled out, which is disappointing and a bad decision. Now let’s look at his goal a great run to the back post and equally great ball in one touch and in the back of the net great team goal, no need to cut inside from out wide beat 3 players and smash it in the back of the net from the corner edge of the box, if Patterson had took a leaf out of his book the cross doesn’t come in and he doesn’t score.  

[Cornish Steve]

Having watched the game last night, a few things come to mind.

1) Having a real striker on the field makes a huge difference.

2) We're really not playing badly and don't deserve to be this low in the table.

3) With new players in crucial roles, it's going to take time for them to gel.

4) For those who think Danjuma made too many wrong decisions, let me point out that he's scored twice in two games.

5) Note our height in the team spine: Branthwaite, Onana, and Beto. We're going to benefit from this.

6) The officiating was.. puzzling? Spraying a new line rather than tell players to move behind the existing one? Just crazy.

I have no doubt that we're going to start climbing the table as this improved team line-up begin to understand one another better.

[Shukes]

Palfy what are you talking about? 
In sure everyone knew what I meant by not backing down to a few internet warriors. I litteraly said what I meant haha and you open your paragraph with a “no one’s twisting it” 

I probably deserve this to be fair after admitting to trying to pull you and Bailey in. So Kudos for that, was a decent effort. Not as good as Danjumas effort that was turned around the post, but a good effort all the same.

And no they weren’t debating that he could have done better Palf. That’s a given. They were debating that his heavy touch was a bad decision. And yes people can have different opinions that’s fine.

But black is black mate and just because some may have an opinion that it’s white… it’s still wrong. 
 

And that shot that he had where you say nothing come of it… do you mean other than it on target and saved around the post for a corner? That’s not nothing come of it Palfy, that’s a good effort on goal that nearly went in and would have if it hadn’t been for a good save.

Look I’m not debating that he could have done better at all. So could all of our players including Beto. 
Im also not debating that he made a few bad decisions as he did. 
 

What I’m debating is that some of those weren’t by his choice, they were poor execution. No coach in the world is going to complain about a player going to the bye line and trying to pull it back….trust me, it’s absolute madness to think they would. 
 

But back on point… keep up the bullying and I’ll put a complaint in and ask for you to be banned. 
 

Or at least post a photo of yourself sitting on a potty with nothing on but a red top!

[Gwlad]

3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Having watched the game last night, a few things come to mind.

1) Having a real striker on the field makes a huge difference.

 

3) With new players in crucial roles, it's going to take time for them to gel.

 

5) Note our height in the team spine: Branthwaite, Onana, and Beto. We're going to benefit from this.

6) The officiating was.. puzzling? Spraying a new line rather than tell players to move behind the existing one? Just crazy.

I have no doubt that we're going to start climbing the table as this improved team line-up begin to understand one another better.

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://x.com/andy3fc/status/1698786846371614763?s=46&t=1wM_xvx1NFbXaZSqIaj30A

[Matt]

43 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://x.com/andy3fc/status/1698786846371614763?s=46&t=1wM_xvx1NFbXaZSqIaj30A

We've been screwed at least twice if not 3 times already by the officials.