Longest Thread!

[MikeO]

On 06/07/2019 at 03:13, Cornish Steve said:

Mike: I came across a news article today about the arson attack on the historic synagogue in Exeter. (It hit the headlines because, during the attack, the perpetrator set fire to himself although escaped unhurt.) It's the third oldest synagogue in Britain, and my great-great-great-grandfather attended there. He's buried in the neighbouring Jewish cemetery. It seems the building has been repaired and is open again for use.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/watch-moment-terrorist-firebomber-blasted-3058919

I've read several articles recently about the rise of anti-Semitism in Britain. It's reached the point where a significant number of Jewish families are thinking of leaving the country. As a result, I've made a personal resolution: When I next visit Britain, I shall wear a kippah throughout. If fellow Brits (in this case Jews) are being picked on, then I want to stand with them and, if necessary, feel their pain. In 1930s Britain, my maternal grandfather had to change his last name because of pro-Nazi attitudes against Jews. We can't allow a return to those days.

Been mulling this over on and off all day. Firstly I wasn't aware of the arson attack at all, don't know how I missed it and secondly I had no idea there was such an historic synagogue in Exeter, it's a bit hidden away but I'll definitely now make a point of visiting it. Does your great-great-great-grandfather share your surname? If so I'll say hello to him if I can.

As to anti-Semitism I'm really at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it; all forms of racial/religious hatred are anathema to me but still I can see that a minority will always hold those beliefs, and if it's against Black, Asian, Polish or Muslim people (or whoever) however reprehensible I find it I can see that these people are often easily identified as targets (wrongly on many occasions). Jewish people, unless they're wearing a kippah or are Orthodox in somewhere like Golders Green, just aren't identifiable, so how do anti-Semites know who to hate?

I've mentioned before on here that both my in-laws are/were Jewish refugees, one from Germany (Kindertansport 1938) and one from Russia and the only tales my late father-in-law would tell of anti-Semitism were back when he was very young and the black-shirts were around pre-war. He actually went as far as going to Israel in his twenties and trained to join Mossad; though ultimately for reasons I can't recall he came back to the UK and was never active. My wife was adopted so although she strongly identifies as Jewish she actually isn't by blood. Her three brothers who were all natural children are non-practising, one in the UK, one in Holland and one in the US and I've never had the conversation with them as to whether they've faced any prejudice because it seems to me too ridiculous to contemplate, maybe it's a conversation I should have with them. They've all been very successful in completely different fields to each other as was their dad, so any prejudice they've encountered they've overcome.

The only time I saw my father-in-law's kippah was when it was on his coffin last year, so it obviously was important to him deep down.

This really isn't an answer Steve but just me trying to process your post, I just don't understand why anti-Semitism exists; when I found out my new girlfriend's parents were Jewish in 1995 I didn't for a moment consider that anyone would disapprove of our relationship (no-one ever has) but I had a black girlfriend a few years previously and I knew that it may cause me problems (it did).

[Cornish Steve]

On 07/07/2019 at 17:43, MikeO said:

Been mulling this over on and off all day. Firstly I wasn't aware of the arson attack at all, don't know how I missed it and secondly I had no idea there was such an historic synagogue in Exeter, it's a bit hidden away but I'll definitely now make a point of visiting it. Does your great-great-great-grandfather share your surname? If so I'll say hello to him if I can.

As to anti-Semitism I'm really at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it; all forms of racial/religious hatred are anathema to me but still I can see that a minority will always hold those beliefs, and if it's against Black, Asian, Polish or Muslim people (or whoever) however reprehensible I find it I can see that these people are often easily identified as targets (wrongly on many occasions). Jewish people, unless they're wearing a kippah or are Orthodox in somewhere like Golders Green, just aren't identifiable, so how do anti-Semites know who to hate?

I've mentioned before on here that both my in-laws are/were Jewish refugees, one from Germany (Kindertansport 1938) and one from Russia and the only tales my late father-in-law would tell of anti-Semitism were back when he was very young and the black-shirts were around pre-war. He actually went as far as going to Israel in his twenties and trained to join Mossad; though ultimately for reasons I can't recall he came back to the UK and was never active. My wife was adopted so although she strongly identifies as Jewish she actually isn't by blood. Her three brothers who were all natural children are non-practising, one in the UK, one in Holland and one in the US and I've never had the conversation with them as to whether they've faced any prejudice because it seems to me too ridiculous to contemplate, maybe it's a conversation I should have with them. They've all been very successful in completely different fields to each other as was their dad, so any prejudice they've encountered they've overcome.

The only time I saw my father-in-law's kippah was when it was on his coffin last year, so it obviously was important to him deep down.

This really isn't an answer Steve but just me trying to process your post, I just don't understand why anti-Semitism exists; when I found out my new girlfriend's parents were Jewish in 1995 I didn't for a moment consider that anyone would disapprove of our relationship (no-one ever has) but I had a black girlfriend a few years previously and I knew that it may cause me problems (it did).

My g-g-g-grandfather's name was Moses Lazarus (same last name as my maternal grandfather).

[MikeO]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

My g-g-g-grandfather's name was Moses Lazarus (same last name as my maternal grandfather).

I've noticed the cemetery before, it's about half a mile from the synagogue next to the "dissenters graveyard". I'll definitely have a look in there next time I'm in town, I find graveyards fascinating places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7203906,-3.5257542,3a,75y,151.06h,74.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCmwGVNAIad4zokPOt7mQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Cornish Steve]

15 hours ago, MikeO said:

I've noticed the cemetery before, it's about half a mile from the synagogue next to the "dissenters graveyard". I'll definitely have a look in there next time I'm in town, I find graveyards fascinating places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7203906,-3.5257542,3a,75y,151.06h,74.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCmwGVNAIad4zokPOt7mQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Most of the gravestones contain Hebrew, not English, letters. Actually, if you’re interested, there’s a book available called ‘The Jews of Exeter’.

[MikeO]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Most of the gravestones contain Hebrew, not English, letters. Actually, if you’re interested, there’s a book available called ‘The Jews of Exeter’.

I'll look into that.

[Bill]

On 09/07/2019 at 09:42, MikeO said:

 I'll definitely have a look in there next time I'm in town, I find graveyards fascinating places.

 

They're Very popular Mike,  lots of people are dying to go there.

[johnh]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

They're Very popular Mike,  lots of people are dying to go there.

I agree Bill, they are very interesting.

[Cornish Steve]

16 hours ago, Bill said:

They're Very popular Mike,  lots of people are dying to go there.

Often in the dead centre of town.

[pete0]

I'm quite neutral when it comes to guns, but this racist man should definitely not be allowed to have one. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-security-guard-gun-black-police-officer-ohio-racism-a9007996.html%3famp

[MikeO]

Not a fan of "magic" as a rule but this is insane. No idea who the Jonas Brothers are mind.

 

[pete0]

5g killing bees by the looks of it. (didn't realise 5g was a thing yet, not got it in the UK fortunately by the looks of it). 

 

[MikeO]

Good timing sir! And thank-you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-49204090

[Matt]

4 hours ago, MikeO said:

Good timing sir! And thank-you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-49204090

How bittersweet...

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

How bittersweet...

I like to think, "...done it, got the badge, I'm off now, enough..". Totally sweet, hope so anyway.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

I like to think, "...done it, got the badge, I'm off now, enough..". Totally sweet, hope so anyway.

Oh absolutely, but it’s always sad to see someone as brave and honerable as he clearly was go.

May he rest in peace. 

[johnh]

What a guy and they were all so humble.   I worked with a guy in the early 1960's and knew he'd been in the RAF during the war, but didn't know any more than that.  I found out some years later that he had been in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain and was awarded the DFC.  He never spoke about it.  Wish I'd known,  I could have shaken his hand and thanked him, which I suppose I should have done anyway.

[MikeO]

23 minutes ago, johnh said:

What a guy and they were all so humble.   I worked with a guy in the early 1960's and knew he'd been in the RAF during the war, but didn't know any more than that.  I found out some years later that he had been in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain and was awarded the DFC.  He never spoke about it.  Wish I'd known,  I could have shaken his hand and thanked him, which I suppose I should have done anyway.

I worked right next to the place that Harry Patch, the last UK WW1 vet lived in his last years and I never knew; wish I had.

Was a big thing when he departed at 111 (must've been a cricketer) and the press were all over it; funeral live on the BBC, rightly so.

[MikeO]

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

[Matt]

37 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

Exercise bike mate, you can go your own pace and still get your exercise in

[johnh]

42 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

Try the Army assault course on Salisbury Plain.  Not too far from you.   

[MikeO]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Exercise bike mate, you can go your own pace and still get your exercise in

Had one of those before but to get a decent one is pricey, used "proper" ones in physio a few years and agree they're good but's a lot of expense and really got nowhere to put one.

2 hours ago, johnh said:

Try the Army assault course on Salisbury Plain.  Not too far from you.   

I did the one in Pirbright several times many years ago, excellent (and at times terrifying) fun in wooded terrain; bit past it now I think. Remember reading somewhere that the French Foreign Legion one in Guyana is the toughest one in the World, and that the record for the slowest time completing is was held by the US Marine Corps.

Coincidentally I drove past the Commando Training Centre for our Marines in Lympstone just yesterday, didn't think to ask the guards if I could nip in and have a go.

[Matt]

9 hours ago, MikeO said:

Had one of those before but to get a decent one is pricey, used "proper" ones in physio a few years and agree they're good but's a lot of expense and really got nowhere to put one.

I did the one in Pirbright several times many years ago, excellent (and at times terrifying) fun in wooded terrain; bit past it now I think. Remember reading somewhere that the French Foreign Legion one in Guyana is the toughest one in the World, and that the record for the slowest time completing is was held by the US Marine Corps.

Coincidentally I drove past the Commando Training Centre for our Marines in Lympstone just yesterday, didn't think to ask the guards if I could nip in and have a go.

I got my one for £80 second hand. Have a look on eBay if something, of wait for the inevitable Black Friday offers 

[MikeO]

Referring to nobody in particular but just reading about someone killed who is, "the nicest person you could ever wish meet" or (in other cases) "would do anything for anybody".

Why is nobody who dies before their time "an arsehole who the world is better off without"? Just musing.

[Matt]

18 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Referring to nobody in particular but just reading about someone killed who is, "the nicest person you could ever wish meet" or (in other cases) "would do anything for anybody".

Why is nobody who dies before their time "an arsehole who the world is better off without"? Just musing.

Because you don’t mourn arseholes?

[MikeO]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Because you don’t mourn arseholes?

Not unless they're "your" arseholes (in which case you can mourn while secretly being a little bit grateful); some people are best removed from the gene pool. I could name several people (relatives to famous) who I'd not be sad to see the back of; not saying I wish anyone dead, just hate the (thoughtless) "thoughts are with at this difficult time" platitudes.

[Matt]

52 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not unless they're "your" arseholes (in which case you can mourn while secretly being a little bit grateful); some people are best removed from the gene pool. I could name several people (relatives to famous) who I'd not be sad to see the back of; not saying I wish anyone dead, just hate the (thoughtless) "thoughts are with at this difficult time" platitudes.

Fair enough. 

[Ghoat]

I guess it's because you "you don't speak I'll of the dead". Look at famous people in music you have had well chronicled drug issues. When they die it is all platitudes about what nice people they actually were - from their fans their peers, the media. And I'm certainly not making light of people that have addiction problems it's no joke. But in some of these cases you want to say Jesus Christ the guy had a heroin (or alcohol or some other drug) problem for 15 years of course he overdosed/died young and I'm pissed off about it because I loved his music and he couldn't get his shit straight!

Think about the funerals you've been to for people you personally knew - especially mates. A lot of times the gentle saint they are talking about only slightly resembles the one you raise all kind of hell with - the flawed individual thay you loved. 

Honesty at funerals, that would be really ...interesting

[Palfy]

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

[MikeO]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

Good idea that. Goes beyond just choosing the music which many now do, my mum did for one. I had a gay cousin who died from AIDS decades ago and he pretty much "directed" his funeral; it was in Brighton where there's a large LGBT community and it was an absolute riot, one of the best parties I've ever been to! 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Good idea that. Goes beyond just choosing the music which many now do, my mum did for one. I had a gay cousin who died from AIDS decades ago and he pretty much "directed" his funeral; it was in Brighton where there's a large LGBT community and it was an absolute riot, one of the best parties I've ever been to! 

That’s special and great way for everyone including the deceased to say there goodbyes.