MC11 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 If we sort the two central midfield positions out just watch the progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Like in the first season under Martinez? When Barry and McCarthy played brilliantly all season? Supporting the full backs while they attacked? Maybe their drop in form was the change from full backs attacking to wingers attacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Sheedy CM ? [emoji102][emoji15][emoji102] Intention was a more general reference to midfield than CM with that second statement mentioning Sheedy, and yes Bracewell is an unintentional omission but don't have the benefit of good first hand recollection of the early and mid 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Like in the first season under Martinez? When Barry and McCarthy played brilliantly all season? Supporting the full backs while they attacked? Maybe their drop in form was the change from full backs attacking to wingers attacking.I can understand teams nullifying the attack of Baines & Coleman (which happened). What I can't understand is the persistence of playing two deep sitting limited footballers in the middle of the park when it's blatantly obvious your wingers and fullbacks aren't getting a sniff. We'll have to agree to disagree on this but I'm convinced we can be a much better side in the middle than we currently are and it with benefit the whole team. Wouldn't it be nice to get a clever player in there Steve. Has vision, the ability to get on the scoresheet. That's all I'm looking for someone who can mix it up. Edited June 11, 2016 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I know I'm very defensive of the two of them, because I think they have been two of our best performers over the last three seasons. Not that much competition really. I do want to see it mixed up a bit though. I'd rather see more of a flat, or fluid, midfield three. If we could play Barkley, McCarthy and bring in another midfielder of real quality. All three defend, all three attack, but obviously not all at the same time. Unless we could bring in someone like Mata who could be a number ten, then I'd want Barkley deeper (I want him deeper anyway) and someone new next to him. I always believe a top quality midfielder can make the biggest difference to a team, at both ends of the park. Maybe that was the effect Barry had when he first came, just having a bit of quality and experience in there that we hadn't had in a long time. Do you know of any midfielder that we could go for? Is Moutinho an option? I dream of Toni Kroos, and he would be perfect, though I know it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I can understand teams nullifying the attack of Baines & Coleman (which happened). What I can't understand is the persistence of playing two deep sitting limited footballers in the middle of the park when it's blatantly obvious your wingers and fullbacks aren't getting a sniff. We'll have to agree to disagree on this but I'm convinced we can be a much better side in the middle than we currently are and it with benefit the whole team. Wouldn't it be nice to get a clever player in there Steve. Has vision, the ability to get on the scoresheet. That's all I'm looking for someone who can mix it up. I agree that we need a midfielder who can open teams up with a pass, and spot a run, but we also need the McCarthy and Besic types to cover the back 4 and fill in for full backs when they attack. That's what Besic and McCarthy can do, I believe they can do it well under a coach who can develop them. I don't want us to become a club that simply buys its way to success, that's not the Everton way. If we can bring players on and develop them purchasing players after we have tried other options first. Doing otherwise is a betrayal of the players we already have at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) We aren't going to buy success ala City but that's how teams do it it's generally the rule of thumb bar one off exceptions like Leicester We've got a reported £100m not half a billion don't get me wrong if spent well it will drastically improve us but with others strengthening around or above us player prices will increase etc it won't stretch as far as people seem think Betrayal? I'm all for bringing through youth but if those players aren't good enough along with the current first teamers then they need moving aside or selling on and we buy to improve its hardly betrayal it's the modern game I'm not one for two defensive mids either you sacrifice having a creative mid to do so and it's an area we've been crying out for McCarthy and Basic don't have that ability one of those two sat back fine but not both Edited June 11, 2016 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 We aren't going to buy success ala City but that's how teams do it it's generally the rule of thumb bar one off exceptions like Leicester We've got a reported £100m not half a billion don't get me wrong if spent well it will drastically improve us but with others strengthening around or above us player prices will increase etc it won't stretch as far as people seem think Betrayal? I'm all for bringing through youth but if those players aren't good enough along with the current first teamers then they need moving aside or selling on and we buy to improve its hardly betrayal it's the modern game I'm not one for two defensive mids either you sacrifice having a creative mid to do so and it's an area we've been crying out for McCarthy and Basic don't have that ability one of those two sat back fine but not both Excellent post, my thoughts exactly. I'd of probably put at least 5 swear words in mine though. Pauls much more eloquent than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 We aren't going to buy success ala City but that's how teams do it it's generally the rule of thumb bar one off exceptions like Leicester We've got a reported £100m not half a billion don't get me wrong if spent well it will drastically improve us but with others strengthening around or above us player prices will increase etc it won't stretch as far as people seem think Betrayal? I'm all for bringing through youth but if those players aren't good enough along with the current first teamers then they need moving aside or selling on and we buy to improve its hardly betrayal it's the modern game I'm not one for two defensive mids either you sacrifice having a creative mid to do so and it's an area we've been crying out for McCarthy and Basic don't have that ability one of those two sat back fine but not both I think you miss-understand, I am not saying lets just use what we have, and I am looking forward to being able to bring in players of real quality where we desperately need them. What I am saying is that we need to give the new manager time to evaluate the squad to see who he can develop and who is not up to the required standard. To simply dump players without first giving them a fair go is in my opinion a betrayal and a waste of potential talent. I believe that both Besic and McCarthy are of the required standard, and just need to be properly coached, get a fair run in the team, and play in a side that has direction and morale. I would want to play with one holding player, but we need to have a least two if not three in the squad as it is a long season, we need to cover injuries, suspensions and loss of form. Gwlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Excellent post, my thoughts exactly. I'd of probably put at least 5 swear words in mine though. Pauls much more eloquent than me. Earthquakes are more eloquent than you Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Earthquakes are more eloquent than you We all have our flaws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Can't play Barkley back, he can't tackle to save his life, has to be pushed up to a more advanced role. EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Why can't Barkley tackle to save his life? He manages to do it perfectly fine for England when he is told he has to defend. He's barely even made an attempt in the last three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I think after the 2 injuries he shits out of a lot of tackles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I don't think he's been involved in enough tackles to make that judgement to be honest Pad. It's one thing I want from Koeman, to get him in tackles. Maybe taking a few more knocks might put a bit more aggression into his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I don't think he's been involved in enough tackles to make that judgement to be honest Pad. It's one thing I want from Koeman, to get him in tackles. Maybe taking a few more knocks might put a bit more aggression into his game. He shits out of loads of tackles Steve, we see him do it week in week out. I can't blame him though that break he had, he was apparently lucky to walkmproperly again never mind be a professional footballer. It has to be on his mind when he's going in for a tackle. He most defo doesn't fancy a hard tackle does our Ross but I can live with that, plenty of players don't. Different class I know butMessi isn't renowned for his tackling prowess so I have no problem with Barkley not having it in his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 A dm doesn't have to be able to tackle. He just needs to he able to read the game and pressure a player when needed. Putting Ross deeper is to provide a link up, not for him to start tackling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'm not one for two defensive mids either you sacrifice having a creative mid to do so and it's an area we've been crying out for McCarthy and Basic don't have that ability one of those two sat back fine but not both I always think your restricted with 2 defensive midfielders and you don't really need both to play like that. We had one of thee best in Carsley which freed Gravesen or Arteta up to push on. Makelele did it for Chelsea for years and allowed Lampard freedom to get forward. Most DM players don't start out that way you need excellent positional play to carry it off and that comes with experience. It also helps if you have 2 really good centre halves behind him aswell 2 who play well together and know each other which is something we don't have. Hopefully Koeman can instill a little bit of his knowledge into one or 2 of our players and teach them where to be and when to be there because Martinez certainly didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 But Pad you've got to take into account him being told not to get involved in tackles, take that away from him and then judge him for it. I'm not saying he loves a tackle or anything, but compare him to Mirallas who really shits out of tackles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 But Pad you've got to take into account him being told not to get involved in tackles, take that away from him and then judge him for it. I'm not saying he loves a tackle or anything, but compare him to Mirallas who really shits out of tackles! Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Steve, although not great at tackling either Mirallas has far more agression and puts his foot in a lot more than Barkley imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Steve, although not great at tackling either Mirallas has far more agression and puts his foot in a lot more than Barkley imo. Ye Mirralas is quite an aggressive player, you will always know your in a game with him. He won't ever let a player jog past him like he's not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Just because Ross would play deeper doesn't mean he'd be playing as a defensive midfielder! He'd simply just have a starting position further back but with exactly the same job as what he's got now, it'd just involve him getting the ball sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Don't get me wrong there Pad, Mirallas does play with more aggression and will put his foot in when someone else has the ball. But when someone goes in on a big tackle on him you'll see him pull out everytime. I agree there Mark, that's my point. More space for him to exploit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Don't get me wrong there Pad, Mirallas does play with more aggression and will put his foot in when someone else has the ball. But when someone goes in on a big tackle on him you'll see him pull out everytime. I agree there Mark, that's my point. More space for him to exploit. more space is irrelevant if he doesn't learn when to release the ball though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 That comes back to having total freedom rather than being coached for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 That comes back to having total freedom rather than being coached for me.not sure it's either of those things, it's just down to game play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Not sure it's any advantage for him to get the ball a lot deeper, means he has further to go without losing it, he will insist on beating a man and go on trying to beat another and another until he runs into a dead end and loses the ball, when a pass was the better option on several occasions during the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Don't get me wrong there Pad, Mirallas does play with more aggression and will put his foot in when someone else has the ball. But when someone goes in on a big tackle on him you'll see him pull out everytime. I agree there Mark, that's my point. More space for him to exploit. I agree with you both. It was Bill who said you can't have it both ways. I'd like him in a deeper more creative role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I just don't get this... I assume they hope he has a good euros and we can sell him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Sell who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.