Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Bill]

Its not difficult for me to understand Haf, I suggest that some members of the "TT for the thinking Evertonian" might just want to go away and think about it.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Bill

[Lowensda]

Its not difficult for me to understand Haf, I suggest that some members of the "TT for the thinking Evertonian" might just want to go away and think about it.

 

To be fair, I understand the breakdown and I understand why he wants to showcase these findings.

 

For my perspective (as he's done a good job on Lukaku's) i'm genuinely intrigued as to how he compares to other strikers in the league in this instance. Just out of personal interest I think he's raised a good point, so it'd be interesting to see how others compare.

[Hafnia]

Its not difficult for me to understand Haf, I suggest that some members of the "TT for the thinking Evertonian" might just want to go away and think about it.

 

I thought it was just me Bill...

 

People get all excited by "goals scored by age of 22" picture of him with dreadlocks on twitter.... ignoring all sorts of variables that skew the figures such as:- games played, quality of team played for versus quality of opposition, position played, minutes played, chance conversion etc.

 

Maybe I should just do one myself saying "Lukaku is a 1 in 4 striker against better teams" and leave it at that. Putting it into context around how that compares to our overall team performance level has been a wasted exercise.

[Hafnia]

 

To be fair, I understand the breakdown and I understand why he wants to showcase these findings.

 

For my perspective (as he's done a good job on Lukaku's) i'm genuinely intrigued as to how he compares to other strikers in the league in this instance. Just out of personal interest I think he's raised a good point, so it'd be interesting to see how others compare.

 

happy to do that.

 

My gut feeling? all other strikers will see a drop in goal ratio versus top 6 sides. How does that translate to their team performance.

 

we will see.

[Matt]

Ok.... before I go and repeat the same process which took 20 minutes just for Rom it's important that people understand what the relevance of the comparisons are.

 

 

If i was to say "lukaku scores less against better teams".... the response would be "yes but Everton don't do well against better teams versus lower teams"

 

 

OK... so that gives me the question "relative to the goals we as a team score.... how does Rom do against the top 6"

 

The answer to that is the there is a marked downfall on his goals versus that of the team overall when playing top 6. You can't argue that "it's ok that he scores less because the team do".... the fact is that the teams goal output does not drop anywhere near that of the level of Rom.

Which could be explained in a couple of ways, namely our attacking threat is negated a lot more (not just him but his support too), we rely more on set pieces to score, and I'm sure there are other reasons too.

 

Also, the top 6 are there because they're conceding less in general so the request for direct comparison is relevant for me. Appreciate the effort you've put in, it's interesting, if sometimes a little hard to follow.

[StevO]

Haha I didn't think you could get more patronising Haf.

Before you waste another 20 minutes, you've already wasted about 200 hours on this argument, you need everyone else to understand the relevance.

If I hadn't known you for so long I'd be thinking arrogant prick, telling a bunch of football fans we don't understand comparison. Fortunately I've known you about ten years, so I just think you're mental, not condescending, patronising or arrogant like the newer menbers reading that will think.

 

Also, im not passive aggressive or sarcastic. ?

[Hafnia]

Haha I didn't think you could get more patronising Haf.

Before you waste another 20 minutes, you've already wasted about 200 hours on this argument, you need everyone else to understand the relevance.

If I hadn't known you for so long I'd be thinking arrogant prick, telling a bunch of football fans we don't understand comparison. Fortunately I've known you about ten years, so I just think you're mental, not condescending, patronising or arrogant like the newer menbers reading that will think.

 

Also, im not passive aggressive or sarcastic.

 

If someone didn't dismiss a post without reading it properly in an arrogant manner then I wouldn't have reciprocated the tone in a way I felt that I needed to.

 

edit... you know what... I kinda knew it would come across as arrogant and abrupt and I don't really care. as much as you lot are tired with my stance on the subject - I'm equally as tired of the incessant fishing. So if I put some stat out there that I have taken time to explain and someone says "not worth reading" and then following completely misrepresents (not misinterprets) what I said then yeah a bolshy arrogant condescending post is what was coming.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Hafnia

[Hafnia]

Which could be explained in a couple of ways, namely our attacking threat is negated a lot more (not just him but his support too), we rely more on set pieces to score, and I'm sure there are other reasons too.

 

Also, the top 6 are there because they're conceding less in general so the request for direct comparison is relevant for me. Appreciate the effort you've put in, it's interesting, if sometimes a little hard to follow.

 

Yeah I said that the type of play and how we score against top 6 may be different - less from open play. That said Rom has had penalty duties and takes some free kicks, he is also the tallest in the side which should help from corners and indirect free kicks.

 

For me perception is reality....you said it yourself on Saturday "there's no point having him on the pitch, his frustration is so clear".... marco said "when he does win a flick on or summat he should be busting a gut to get forward..just ambles!"

 

This is Rom against a top side... its what he does - annoyingly. Unfortunately not every defender he will face wears the claret and blue of west ham. He has to work and work and be ready for that one chance that may come his way which he has to work for. That chance did come, a great flick that sent him through and he took it brilliantly.

[Hafnia]

Harry Kane:-

 

versus top 5 (can't be 6 as spurs is in the top 6) - he averages a goal every 0.61 games

 

versus the rest Kane scores a goal every 0.63 games

 

I could have skewed the stats to be in favour of my argument and put Leicester in the top 6 - he had scored a hat trick against them.

[Matt]

 

Yeah I said that the type of play and how we score against top 6 may be different - less from open play. That said Rom has had penalty duties and takes some free kicks, he is also the tallest in the side which should help from corners and indirect free kicks.

 

For me perception is reality....you said it yourself on Saturday "there's no point having him on the pitch, his frustration is so clear".... marco said "when he does win a flick on or summat he should be busting a gut to get forward..just ambles!"

 

This is Rom against a top side... its what he does - annoyingly. Unfortunately not every defender he will face wears the claret and blue of west ham. He has to work and work and be ready for that one chance that may come his way which he has to work for. That chance did come, a great flick that sent him through and he took it brilliantly.

even you have to admit that in the City game there was little opportunity for him to do anything, but when the chance came, as you say, he took it perfectly. I said that quote in the weekends game because he was so isolated due to the incessant pressure from City pinning us in our half for 80 mins of the game, and we were getting overrun, that there was no point in having him there because there was no opportunity for him and reinforcing the midfield seemed like a logical tactical change. Fortunately I was wrong

 

This is usually my defence of him when he's not putting in the effort; he's usually been negated from close attention and we don't have the creativity to pose an extra threat which would give him space. I can see why it might look like he's being lazy but I think the vast majority of the time it's because he's being marked out of the game without the necessary support. It's this difference of interpretion (amongst other things) that causes the disagreement most of the time.

[Hafnia]

even you have to admit that in the City game there was little opportunity for him to do anything, but when the chance came, as you say, he took it perfectly. I said that quote in the weekends game because he was so isolated due to the incessant pressure from City pinning us in our half for 80 mins of the game, and we were getting overrun, that there was no point in having him there because there was no opportunity for him and reinforcing the midfield seemed like a logical tactical change. Fortunately I was wrong

 

This is usually my defence of him when he's not putting in the effort; he's usually been negated from close attention and we don't have the creativity to pose an extra threat which would give him space. I can see why it might look like he's being lazy but I think the vast majority of the time it's because he's being marked out of the game without the necessary support. It's this difference of interpretion (amongst other things) that causes the disagreement most of the time.

 

for me its a clear as this - when his heckles are up he is a force to be reckoned with. You can see it within the first 10 minutes - sometimes he maintains it and sometimes he allows his head and focus to go.

 

I will use the Liverpool game where he scored as a perfect example of him having the right attitude - he engaged with Sakho, took on the challenge and really did get at them.... and guess what - he was isolated, he had to chase, press, jump for long balls and he did it. Probably his best game in an Everton shirt IMO and when the chance fell to him he finished. A perfect game IMO.

 

Far far too often I have seen him skulk around because he isn't up for it, because he needs to get his hands dirty and he doesn't fancy it. That will always happen against the top teams - they rarely give you an easy time.

 

Look at Kanes return - it doesn't surprise me. Probably the most honest and brave of strikers out there.... he can be isolated for 85 minutes and he is still pressing, chasing lost causes and he so often gets late goals. Its not just by chance that he does - and its not because he's a sub.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Hafnia

[Paddock]

This thread has stooped to an all time low. Jesus fucking christ Haf, how far are you prepared to go with this?

 

Next t'"" be ... Lukaku takes 23.4 seconds to put the bins out on a Tuesday night compared to other strikers who take 19.4 on average but that's during the summer months, in the winter it compares less to Barry and Cleverley who take 21.3 on average.

 

I just don't get the constant use of shite stats that can be spun either way.

 

Walks out to join Matt down the Lukaku free pub.

[MikeO]

This thread has stooped to an all time low. Jesus fucking christ Haf, how far are you prepared to go with this?

 

Next t'"" be ... Lukaku takes 23.4 seconds to put the bins out on a Tuesday night compared to other strikers who take 19.4 on average but that's during the summer months, in the winter it compares less to Barry and Cleverley who take 21.3 on average.

 

I just don't get the constant use of shite stats that can be spun either way.

 

Walks out to join Matt down the Lukaku free pub.

 

My round.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Since playing in the Premiership Lukakus goal record against teams is as follows

 

West Ham 8

Sunderland 7

Villa 6

​THE SHITE 5

​Newcastle 5

Young Boys 5

Man City 4

Southa​mpton 4

​Stoke 4

Palace 4

Man Utd 3

​Swansea 3

Hull 3

West Brom 3

​Arsenal 2

​Chelsea 2

​Norwich 2

Kiev 2

Barnsley 2

Bournemouth 2

Borro 2

Fulham 1

Burnley 1

Wolfsburg 1

Leicester 1

Edited October 18, 2016 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Finn balor]

Great goal by rom on Saturday but the defending by clichy was atrocious.

[MikeO]

Great goal by rom on Saturday but the defending by clichy was atrocious.

 

Does that mean the goal doesn't count ?

[Finn balor]

Erm no just saying it was school boy defending showed rom the outside on his left foot the whole way

[markjazzbassist]

Since playing in the Premiership Lukakus goal record against teams is as follows

 

West Ham 8

Sunderland 7

Villa 6

​THE SHITE 5

​Newcastle 5

Young Boys 5

Man City 4

Southa​mpton 4

​Stoke 4

Palace 4

Man Utd 3

​Swansea 3

Hull 3

West Brom 3

​Arsenal 2

​Chelsea 2

​Norwich 2

Kiev 2

Barnsley 2

Bournemouth 2

Borro 2

Fulham 1

Burnley 1

Wolfsburg 1

Leicester 1

 

pretty well spread out dunc. looks like the upcoming west ham game should be a good one for him

[Hafnia]

I repeat.... for us he averages 1 in 4 against the top 6. 1 in 2 against everyone else.

 

Harry kane has a similar rate of return against top 5 as he does everyone else.

 

West Bromwich goals getting included? Ffs.

[Palfy]

OK Haf with all your statistical knowledge at your disposal what's he gonna do against West Ham

[Palfy]

Shite should have been Burnley

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I repeat.... for us he averages 1 in 4 against the top 6. 1 in 2 against everyone else.

 

Harry kane has a similar rate of return against top 5 as he does everyone else.

 

West Bromwich goals getting included? Ffs.

Shit sorry Haf I was forgetting goals scored when wearing stripes don't count

 

 

[Sibdane]

 

 

West Bromwich goals getting included? Ffs.

I don't see why that should make a difference?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't see why that should make a difference?

Me neither, the accusation was that he doesn't score against the top 6 sides when clearly he does

 

 

[Hafnia]

Shall I include all his games for wba, add them to the 13 for Chelsea and do it all again? Will it adjust the ratios? No.

 

may as well use his Jupiter league goals whist we are at it.

 

He scores disproportionately less goals against the top 6.... flat track bully. 1 in 4 vs 1 in 2.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Hafnia

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't know what a flat track bully is to be honest but if they all score the goals Lukaku does I just wish we had a few more of them

 

And anyone who bullies The Shite will do for me

 

 

[marcopaulo]

Sometimes wish we had sold the cunt

[Shukes]

Why does everyone get so ate up on here?

Haf has an opinion of Lukaku and puts up his reasons why. He also backs them up with facts.

 

There are only two or free people who offer any sort of constructive posts with info back. Everyone else just comes onto this thread to fish or pretend they don't want to be here.

 

Proof is in the pudding, it's one of the most popular threads going.

[Bill]

After four or five posts trying to explain to peeps, and still getting schoolboy replies bent on a wind up mission, I'd have told everybody to fook off by now.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Bill

[Matt]

Shit, hit the wrong link