Romey 1878 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Thanks - I doesn't actually tell us anything though does it? Pure speculation. We are the 2 PL turmoil clubs at the moment so it's an easy rumour to start. If true... could they (Qatar party) be driving down our price by looking else where? Our unrest is very public now and wouldn't take much to get more pressure on BK maybe bringing down the price. I'm actually starting to think it's the other board members who are pushing for the higher price, not BK, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I'm actually starting to think it's the other board members who are pushing for the higher price, not BK, tbh. its very possible that, BK bought extra shares recently which some say makes it easier for him to sell, so you maybe right there, it could be others who are pushing the price up, Earle has given private loans to BK in the past so maybe he wants higher returns back out of it. Edited November 13, 2011 by theprisoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 They all love money over everton. That's the one reason that bk annoys me, he fell out with his nephew because he wanted to go alone but he makes out his heart rules his head. If they sold at double the £800 a share they bought for then they would sell for £56m do that's where we are at. Disgrace to expect any more after the shambles they have left the club in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'm actually starting to think it's the other board members who are pushing for the higher price, not BK, tbh. Agree - my thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 If they sold at double the £800 a share they bought for then they would sell for £56m do that's where we are at. Disgrace to expect any more after the shambles they have left the club in So if you bought a house for £28,000 and then (despite you not keeping up with the maintainance/decoration) ten years later its market value was £112,000 you'd not ask any more than £56,000 for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 The market value is the price the market will pay. If you put your home up for sale, and get a few folks looking at it, but nobody puts in an offer - you're asking too much. You can shift a derelict house if it's at the right price. I think it's fair that anybody would get the best price they can though. Whether that's as much as they want is another thing. Plus, BK has said a few times that it needs to be the 'right' owner. This is the bit I struggle with. I don't think you can ever tell who is going to be the right owner. Do they need to be Everton lovers? Or amazingly successful businessmen, or just wealthy beyond compare? Can any club afford to be so choosy in this day and age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 The market value is the price the market will pay. If you put your home up for sale, and get a few folks looking at it, but nobody puts in an offer - you're asking too much. You can shift a derelict house if it's at the right price. I think it's fair that anybody would get the best price they can though. Whether that's as much as they want is another thing. Plus, BK has said a few times that it needs to be the 'right' owner. This is the bit I struggle with. I don't think you can ever tell who is going to be the right owner. Do they need to be Everton lovers? Or amazingly successful businessmen, or just wealthy beyond compare? Can any club afford to be so choosy in this day and age? No they just need to have a long term business plan with EFC's long term future secured... if these boxes are ticked and other major shareholder's needs are met then it doesn't matter who it is. What matters is Everton F.C competing at the highest level for the next .... years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) But what would a long term business plan prove? There's no obligation to stick to it. Any new owner will come in with all the right words 'turn things around' 'money for players' 'back to the top' 'long term success' etc etc then make a total hash of it and flog the club on again. I totally agree that that is what any sensible Everton fan would want - sensible owners with a real view to a long term plan - but you'll never actually find out the real plan until you've sold. Generally speaking, owners aren't altruistic. There's something in it for them. If it's Everton's interests against their own, they'll look after themselves. It's a mercenary business world now, it's madness to think otherwise. United, City, Liverpool etc - those owners will drop the clubs in a heartbeart if necessary. Everton would be no different. I know that sounds negative, and maybe I'm just an old cynic, it's just I expect owners to behave like politicians - they'll tell you all you want to hear, and do as they please Edited November 13, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Business plans can take a long time and cost a lot to formulate and things can be in place to prove plans will bear fruit e.g rumours Jain group are in talks with LCC about football quarter. The people buying/selling Everton aren't stupid and we're talking vast sums of money from people who's public/global image can mean millions/billions. I can't see phoney business plans getting through (again). If selling EFC was only about money we would have been sold a long time ago and god knows where we could be good or bad. Maybe it's about the money for Earl etc. but BK surely wants what he sees as best for the clubs long term future... and let's be honest he's in a better position than any of us to decide who will take us into the future. Edited November 13, 2011 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'm clearly more cynical than you! I don't think any businessman/woman or consortium worth their salt are going to lay out their plans to the seller. It's none of their business what the future plans are, and it's prudent to keep your business plans secret. Of course, they could be shown under an NDA, but it's still unwise to be spilling the beans so easily. I do agree that BK will want the best for Everton, and therefore won't want to sell 'willy nilly'. I also agree he's in a better position than us to make an informed judgment. However, I disagree that he's the BEST to make the judgment above anybody else at all (not that you've said that!) I doubt formulating a credible plan for the future is much of a problem for people looking to spend c250 million (all in) or so. Credible vs Actual are two different things of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Any buyer would also have to prove their viability to the FA under the new rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) You mean the amazingly astute fukwits who believed folks were voting for them at the World Cup? and who approved Thaksin Sinawatra and are considered the next England manager to be a bloke who's in court for tax dodging and who have NO powers to look into the finances of buyers? The FA are the ones who have to prove they are unfit. And they typically can't. Edited November 13, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 There's enough in place now to stop the next pompy/ Leeds and hopefully EFC are wise to this. The FA didn't sell Citeh to taksin and ultimately it was his links that brought in the current sheiks so he obviously wasn't that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Well, I hope you're right! Yes, we got very very lucky indeed - but I think still the FA have no balls or talent to prevent being outsmarted by smarter folks! Pompey was shocking - Leeds was more 'typical' of overspending (which is still going on at many clubs). I really do hope Everton get some good guys in. I don't mean to be so negative, I just don't like the way the whole game is going in general. I can't complain at the moment - it's brilliant to watch good football and win etc, but something needs sorting out for the general good of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 So if you bought a house for £28,000 and then (despite you not keeping up with the maintainance/decoration) ten years later its market value was £112,000 you'd not ask any more than £56,000 for it? So you are saying everton is worth more than the £1600 per share I am referring to? That is the price you would pay at most for one of them. So to buy the club why is it double that again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 MikeO has a point - it doesn't matter what people paid for the shares, it's simply about what they are worth now. Haf seems to be saying "because it's a huge percentage increase, it's being greedy" (correct me if I'm wrong?) No matter how you spin it... it's only worth what folks are willing to pay. To may knowledge, nobody is willing to pay (ergo, it's over priced). Folks can compare to other clubs all day long, but if you're selling the exact same house in one location, compared to another, the price can differ dramatically. Plus, we don't know all the caveats that (possibly) make a deal unattractive. If the club isn't selling, it's either a) wrong price or offers are being turned down because they aren't the 'right guys' (in Everton's eyes). I do not believe any formal offers have been forthcoming, therefore, I'm saying it's the wrong price. We've all seen those houses for sale that have been for sale for 2 years. They aren't shifting. The owners say they are 'holding out' and everybody else says "it's the wrong price". Anybody looking to invest in a club KNOWS Everton are candidates. It's no secret, so nobody can argue that folks don't know it's on the market (and therefore that's why it's not selling). It's price, pure and simple. Even with all the secret issues (possibly) that we aren't aware of - it will still always come down to price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 So you are saying everton is worth more than the £1600 per share I am referring to? I didn't mention Everton....I was talking about a hypothetical house (but if you have a real property on the market I may make you an offer ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Do they need to buy all the shares? What percentage of share sales constitutes a take over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Do they need to buy all the shares? What percentage of share sales constitutes a take over? Surely 51% would mean 'control'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Surely 51% would mean 'control'? But you would still be answerable to other directors, I think its more like 79%. but dont quote me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 20% will cause trouble - when other shareholder can then start defending by buying new shares at discount There is no fixed percentage, but 51% clearly gives the majority. They don't need 51 to achieve their goals though - just enough to make the major shareholder's position untennable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 A hostile takeover could be done at any time with a public offer to buy the shares and then leave it up to the board members to decide to sell or not (individually) BUT with a hostile takeover, the buyers won't get to see all the 'dirt' behind the scenes. With a friendly takeover, the buyers get to see all the dirt (hidden problems / loans etc) A hostile takeover at Everton would be very risky - a bit gamble that there's nothing horrific the buyer doesn't know about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I can see issues with 51% shareholders investing 100% funding. Control is there, but I would imagine there would need to be a significant percentage far greater for a take over incorporating large investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Yeah, why would anybody pay 100% for 51% stake. Not going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 After a certain percentage (49% I think) you have to offer to buy the remaining 51% of shares. Arsenal had been in the news quite a bit concerning shareholders http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/11042011/58/premier-league-kroenke-launches-arsenal-takeover.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 at 30% you must offer to buy them all but there's no obligation for others to sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 it's much harder with a private company, who generally have less shareholders and who are usually in cahoots with one another. Much easier with a public company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.teamtalk.com/everton/7318799/Kenwright-Sale-will-take-time Going on past experiences I'm inclined to distrust every word Kenwright says, but I so hope he's not chatting bullshit about these interested parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 "there is no bigger everton fan than me" Same old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.teamtalk.com/everton/7318799/Kenwright-Sale-will-take-time Going on past experiences I'm inclined to distrust every word Kenwright says, but I so hope he's not chatting bullshit about these interested parties. So he's regurgitated his first conversation with evertonians for change outside St George's??? Change the record bill, start getting accurate on how long the club has been up for sale for starters. The blue union do not want the same as you, they want someone else to sell the club as you have lost the trust of too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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