Sunderland (Home) FA Cup 6th round

[adziom]

Thought it was coincidental at the time, but when Jags was warming up did Johnny actually tell Moyes to fuck off?

 

I hope so. But I think Heits was down a few minutes earlier with a knock and he had to run it off. Moyes, foaming at the mouth with the opportunity to put Jags on the pitch, asked his man to warm up, but thankfully, Johnny recovered.

[pete0]

I hope so. But I think Heits was down a few minutes earlier with a knock and he had to run it off. Moyes, foaming at the mouth with the opportunity to put Jags on the pitch, asked his man to warm up, but thankfully, Johnny recovered.

Moyes Jags love really winds me up. Somewhere inbetween Anichebe playing right mid and Neville in midfield

[StevO]

Thought it was coincidental at the time, but when Jags was warming up did Johnny actually tell Moyes to fuck off?

 

Nah, he just signalled that he had run off the knock he took.

[pete0]

Nah, he just signalled that he had run off the knock he took.

Booh was hoping he finally told Moyes what everyone else is thinking. Can imagine Johnny to play with lego in his boot before he lets an injury give Moyes/Jags the opportunity to replace him

[Guest blueboy122]

Oh dear 'bellend'! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

 

If you agree with all my statements then you'll understand why I don't believe we'll go up there and get a win.

 

No I base my opinion on the fact that we pretty much always fail to show up for big away games like i said. History proves that. I mentioned the two meetings this season as a point on how difficult it's going to be there...they don't have to be Barcelona to beat us do they? We've failed to beat plenty of shit sides this season and over the years due to poor management. I'd say the majority of this board would agree with me.

 

I'm well within my rights to have a moan especially after this week because I'm sick of us being below par when we need to be on our game. I thought we were going to go through on Saturday but yet again we played to the oppositions strengths instead of our own.

 

I'm fed up of walking out the ground feeling like I've just caught purple aki in bed with my bird. If you want to sit there and pretend everything's fine and that we'll go there and put in a performance then crack on, nothing will change though. Moyes needs to know that settling for second best is not good enough for this club. All these punters and journalists kissing his arse about the last 10 years is doing this club no favours at all. Since when was it acceptable for an everton manager to think getting anywhere close to a final would be an achievement? Well it's NOT, it's small time it's negative and I've had enough.

 

 

Just for future reference I dont kiss my mother at all. Not sure what part of the world your from but up my end its classed as inbread haha I agree again with what you have said in this post, I have the same feeling as we all do, however within regards to us beating Sunderland at thier place you said that we dont have a chance in hell of beating them, when in my opinion we have every chance of beating them hence my point there not barcelona at the nou camp however they are a well organised side no doubt about that. Like you I dont think we will beat them at there place but it wont stop me from going up there to support them, my point being: ofcourse we are capable of beating them we are much better side when we play well (which we are yet to see this season granted) but i dont think we will beat them. As you have pointed out, this season has been a disaster and we have been beaten by lesser sides again which you have pointed out, but to say we have no chance is way off the mark for me. Within regards to Moyes I agree with what you are saying but theres no way we could find anyone better than him at this current time. He has my full backing because he has done so much good for the club that personally I cant critisize him. However the whole Moyes debate is a can of worms for another day.

 

[SimonButtle]

Just for future reference I dont kiss my mother at all. Not sure what part of the world your from but up my end its classed as inbread haha I agree again with what you have said in this post, I have the same feeling as we all do, however within regards to us beating Sunderland at thier place you said that we dont have a chance in hell of beating them, when in my opinion we have every chance of beating them hence my point there not barcelona at the nou camp however they are a well organised side no doubt about that. Like you I dont think we will beat them at there place but it wont stop me from going up there to support them, my point being: ofcourse we are capable of beating them we are much better side when we play well (which we are yet to see this season granted) but i dont think we will beat them. As you have pointed out, this season has been a disaster and we have been beaten by lesser sides again which you have pointed out, but to say we have no chance is way off the mark for me. Within regards to Moyes I agree with what you are saying but theres no way we could find anyone better than him at this current time. He has my full backing because he has done so much good for the club that personally I cant critisize him. However the whole Moyes debate is a can of worms for another day.

Sorry but that's bullshit mate, Moyes is not the only manager in world football who has ever worked on a small budget, and many have done better than him, im fed up of people saying that no one else could manage the club, it's crap, also there is plenty to criticise Moyes over, he has done well i guess, but don't forget under any normal chairman, Moyes would have been sacked years ago, there is not many get 10 years in a football job without anything to show for it, on the wages he earns.

[Hafnia]

Just want to clarify my position on Fellaini here - in my opinion as a specialist defensive midfielder he is excellent, not many better, especially given his age. For me he could play for most teams in the world doing the job he does.

 

The point i'm making is that if we have no cash to spend and we have to use player sales to strengthen the team then for me we only have Baines and Fellaini as the type of players that could generate near £30m in a sale.

 

Moyes is deploying Fellaini higher up the pitch due to our lack of creativity in order that his size can create a bit of trouble - for me that is stupid. If we can't have the best defensive mid at the club doing what he does best then why have him? Anyone who doesn't watch him and will have heard of his reputation would laugh if they seen his level of perfromance played in an advanced role.

 

Playing fellaini behind the striker is one of the many reasons that Moyes infuriates me - if Cahill isn't having much joy there then it is because Cahill probably needs to come off and maybe Barkley is given a chance to unlock the defence. I believe Jelavic could strike up a great understanding with Barkley with his movement, Barkley clearly has an eye for a cheeky pass - is he defensive enough??? does it matter if you have a top defensive midfielder behind him?

 

Maybe we will see Barkley in the remaining games who knows, but in my opinion if Moyes continues to waste time by pushing Felli up, then maybe we should sell him and buy a midfielder who has a more 'varied' game... it shouldn't come to that, but you know what don't be surprised to see Heitinga in midfield with fellaini again....

[London Blue]

I was at the game on Saturday, and I have to say the Fellani was our best player by a country mile, he can play as an attacking mid as his passing and ball control skills are good, his physical presence also makes him hard to deal with. The trouble is he is a briliant defensive midfielder, and our defence and midfield play with alot more asurance with him acting as a holding mid. One of the reasons we played so poorly for the first 20 mins was that Fellani was to high up the pitch and we couldnt get control of the ball. The other reason is that they kept targeting capt Nev as our week link, he kept hoofing the ball away and they then started another attack.

 

Cahill appart from his goal, which was well taken was an empty shirt, we should have played Barkley instead he and Ossy have the skill to open up defences. Coleman is no wide player, he is keen enough but lacks the guyle to get a good ball in. Maybe over time this will change, but I would prefer to see him in the Baines mold as a attacking wing back. Distain was a rock along with Johny H.

 

Drenthe is very low on confidence, you coule see in the build up that the other players were trying to build him up. It didnt help that Andre Marriner was a complete twat. Drenthe was fould quite alot and got no joy, I know he is tiny but I think we have a Andrew Johnson situation on our hands. I think we should sign him, he has pace and balance and skill and I think next season will be his time to shine once he has properly settled and got used to the premier leauge.

 

I was impressed by Jelly although he didnt score he is a class act, he just needs a bit more support, and Cahill isnt it, Barclay probably is.

[Hafnia]

Fellaini for all the composure he has breaking up play and showing for his team mates, is and never will be an attacking midfielder. For me to excel in that role you need to be able to play cheeky passes, 1-2's make a yard of space to get a shot away, being 6ft4 is not enough alone to be deployed there.

 

Agreed on Cahill, take away his arial threat and there ain't enough there to justify continued selection, especially when we have Barkley waiting in the wings, it's time to use the lad now.

[Guest blueboy122]

Sorry but that's bullshit mate, Moyes is not the only manager in world football who has ever worked on a small budget, and many have done better than him, im fed up of people saying that no one else could manage the club, it's crap, also there is plenty to criticise Moyes over, he has done well i guess, but don't forget under any normal chairman, Moyes would have been sacked years ago, there is not many get 10 years in a football job without anything to show for it, on the wages he earns.

 

You are fully entitiled to your opinion however, can you give me a manager that has done a better job than Moyes on the money we have had to spend... There isnt one and certainly not in recent times past 20 years were clubs have been speeding mega bucks.

[Dalziel Kane]

Well how about O Neill at Leicester, a small unfashionable club with all due respect, he had limited resources and a tight budget and I vividly remember him taking them to three of four Cup Finals in as many years, they were ever presents as wembley for a short spell in the late 1990s, play off games included too if we want to include them, he did a very good job without an abundance of cash and merely put together a fine side that went out to win and did quite well

 

What about Lambert at Norwich, look at what he has done the last three years, an incredible job if you think about it without huge finances or resources, just a very good team ethic and got the side playing to the best of their abilities

 

Rogers at Swansea too, what a job he has done, 99 per cent of people would have had them straight back down, but they are holding their own and look a good bet to survive another year

 

Some very good examples there of achievements made simply by being a good manager and getting teams to perform without pots of money or expansive resources at their disposal

[adziom]

Moyes is doing a good job, the job he's been doing for ten years, we're in the top half and in the FA Cup quarter finals with a mediocre squad and no budget. Rodgers and Lambert have got their teams promoted into the Premier League and had a good first season, they've done a good job for two years.

 

Here's a look at some other sides who have come up and over-achieved in their first year in recent seasons, and who was managing them:

2001-2: Blackburn

Final Position: 10th

Manager: Graeme Souness (Now unemployed after an unsuccessful spell with Newcastle)

 

2002-3: Man City

Final Position: 9th

Manager: Kevin Keegan (Now unemployed after being sacked by Man City, and later a mediocre spell at Newcastle)

 

2005-6: West Ham

Final Position: 9th

Manager: Alan Pardew (Was later sacked by West Ham, then Charlton, and then Southampton. Surprisingly has done quite well at Newcastle though)

 

2005-6: Wigan

Final Position: 10th

Manager: Paul Jewell (Has resigned from at least 3 clubs in his career, including Wigan and Derby)

 

2006-7: Reading

Final Position: 8th

Manager: Steve Coppell

 

I could go on but I can't be arsed. My point is, had we replaced Moyes with one of these managers, who have all turned out to be shit, quite frankly, then we would have been calling for Kenwright's head even more than we are now.

 

How long is it until Rodgers and Lambert become just another Steve Coppell? People complain that Moyes hasn't won a trophy in his time at Everton, but then go on to claim that Rodgers and Lambert should replace him? On what basis? They have the same track record as the managers above, and they're completely unproven at managing a Premier League side for more than 3/4 of a season.

 

Anyway, back on topic:

Sunderland lost 2-0 at Blackburn tonight, I watched the game, McClean aside, they are a poor team, and we should be easily capable of beating them, even at their ground, even with Cattermole and Sessegnon back in the side, and yes, even if Jagielka was to start, although I sure as hell hope not.

[Dalziel Kane]

No-one was saying said names should be replacements, merely they were possible candidates one day or something to think about

 

We can argue about it until the cows come home, Yes Moyes has done well for the most part in his time here, was a welcome relief after the awful Smith era, has some very commendable league finishes to his name, but just recently I feel that simply with him in charge The Club is simply going nowhere, I do often think about other names that could come in and see how it goes, if they make a mess of it or don't live up to expectations, fair enough, but at least let them have a go if anything else, I'd jump at the chance for instance for O Neill to be Everton manager for the Sunderland replay and vice versa, and see what the rest of the season gives us, he is a very good manager and certainly can motivate more than Moyes can, the man is simply dour and I've become very frustrated of late and not just recent times with our manager. Seriously do hope they don't give him another five year extension. 10 years now and there has been opportunity to have maybe won something and we have nothing to show for it

 

We can argue all we want but that's how I feel about it, and not alone in feelings either

 

And Yes, I think we have the capabilities to win this replay coming up, they may start as favorites, but it's a game that is certainly winnable. I don't understand the expected elimination from some participants

[Guest blueboy122]

All these Moyes bashers that say Moyes isnt the right man anymore, he isnt good enough etc. They have nothing to back up there statements, as I have said twice please can someone give me a name that we could realistically replace moyes with? Look at our league finishers and tell me he isnt good enough!

[pete0]

All these Moyes bashers that say Moyes isnt the right man anymore, he isnt good enough etc. They have nothing to back up there statements, as I have said twice please can someone give me a name that we could realistically replace moyes with? Look at our league finishers and tell me he isnt good enough!

He's stagnated, he's one ring above Sam Alladyce in management terms(mid table/europe no risk of relegation but with better football)

Slavin Bilic

[flaminfox]

He's stagnated, he's one ring above Sam Alladyce in management terms(mid table/europe no risk of relegation but with better football)

Slavin Bilic

we have played some of the best football i have seen under him... people and their short term memories.

[Dalziel Kane]

And what about all the drivel we have had to endure with Mr Moyes in charge and by god there's been some of that and no mistake. Yes, fully aware of the european places we achieved now and again, that's all very well and good and I thank Moyes for that, but there has been some pretty dire seasons too, even now, Moyes has publicly stated 'I will be happy with a Top Ten finish', well some of us would see that as perhaps inadequate, going back to August who here would have been happy or content with finishing tenth ?, what I mean is I would maybe have set my sights a bit higher

 

And yet again I gave three examples of areas to look in or maybe consider, sure I'm not suggesting we try to drag them in and force them at gunpoint to take over from Moyes but I really would like to have seen how any would have done, some of the names suggested are hardly one hit wonders

 

I do hope Moyes can get us through this replay and onto a shite meeting in a few weeks, we can beat both teams on the day with a bit of luck and everybody pulling their weight I do feel, and then another FA cup Final, who knows what could happen. It would be great for Moyes if we could win it, to finally win something with Moyes after 10 empty years (any actual trophy) and maybe give something back to supporters who have remained Loyal even through the difficult times. His anniversary year would be quite fitting. Yes, I and others give Moyes some hard words sometimes, but we merely want what is best for our club and having Mr moyes in charge right now I feel sometimes simply isn't the way forward, but I wish him every success this season. It really would be something to see an Everton captain, after such a long absence, go up and lift a trophy again. One has to remain hopeful it could well be in a few weeks but we will just have to see

[pete0]

we have played some of the best football i have seen under him... people and their short term memories.

I have acknowledged the better football(but he's been found out), he hasnt evolved though. A good manager would have adapted by now.10 years no wingers even though we only ever play down the wing(Kilbane the exception), currently first choice are a raw rb and a wasteful attacking mid. The past 3 years Moyes has burdened the squad with the same old tactics and poor selections. Jags Distin partnership is the worst pairing I've ever seen at the club. Cahill and Saha playing every week, Arteta behind Fellaini. Moyes is lucky to have kept his job

[SimonButtle]

You are fully entitiled to your opinion however, can you give me a manager that has done a better job than Moyes on the money we have had to spend... There isnt one and certainly not in recent times past 20 years were clubs have been speeding mega bucks.

Do you mean that money that up until recently is more than what Mr Wenger had spent? they have won a league and cup in that time, remind me again of all that silverware we have. you wanted alternate names to Moyes, O'Neil,Rodgers,Lambert,Freedman,Poyet,McDermott,Adkins,Hughton plus whatever is out there on the continent(scary to think that Bilbao team last week cost less than Fellaini, and most of it from inhouse coaching)I think any of those would do the same or better than Moyes. The problem is many fans have just accepted Moyes, and can't see change, and the thought of change scares them especially with the off-field situation with Blue Bill and cronies, but as has been said by many more educated than me, 10 years under most chairmen without anything to show for it, and he would have been sacked years ago.

[SimonButtle]

we have played some of the best football i have seen under him... people and their short term memories.

If you think watching the likes of Neville and co hit long balls up to a non-existant striker is some of the best football you have seen, then im even more worried than i was before mate

[Pearso]

I suppose it comes down to who is willing to sit on their heels and finish mid table for the next 10 years until someone comes along with a deep pocket and takes over ownership. Sure Moyes isn't doing a bad job with what he's got, but we're going to be playing with the same quality of players in a budget squad, using the same conservative tactics to scrape draws and lucky wins and finishing mid table and not win any trophies until Moyes gives it in and someone else has a crack.

 

Surely you'd rather see someone else step in and at least have some variation? We may slide down to the bottom half, or we might hit Europa and find some investors. But the same mediocrity that's been served for the last ten years is only going to continue until something changes, and the only interchangable factor at this stage between the squad and the management is Moyes.

[Guest blueboy122]

Do you mean that money that up until recently is more than what Mr Wenger had spent? they have won a league and cup in that time, remind me again of all that silverware we have. you wanted alternate names to Moyes, O'Neil,Rodgers,Lambert,Freedman,Poyet,McDermott,Adkins,Hughton plus whatever is out there on the continent(scary to think that Bilbao team last week cost less than Fellaini, and most of it from inhouse coaching)I think any of those would do the same or better than Moyes. The problem is many fans have just accepted Moyes, and can't see change, and the thought of change scares them especially with the off-field situation with Blue Bill and cronies, but as has been said by many more educated than me, 10 years under most chairmen without anything to show for it, and he would have been sacked years ago.

 

Your having a laugh mate....... I cant justify a response. Half of them you have named our Championship managers anyway and the other half are having good seasons my point being that the 2 new clubs swansea and norwich are having good season, lets see where they both are this time next year.

[marcopaulo]

pris to be fair...the team wenger inherited was far better than the shite moyes got stuck with...can't really compare them two on that front imo

[Romey 1878]

Your having a laugh mate....... I cant justify a response. Half of them you have named our Championship managers anyway and the other half are having good seasons my point being that the 2 new clubs swansea and norwich are having good season, lets see where they both are this time next year.

 

 

Tbf, Moyes was only a Championship manager when we got him.

[Guest blueboy122]

pris to be fair...the team wenger inherited was far better than the shite moyes got stuck with...can't really compare them two on that front imo

 

Fully agree and he struck gold with the signings he made.

 

Tbf, Moyes was only a Championship manager when we got him.

 

Yes very good point, even more to the point then that these managers cant be even compared to Moyes as they havent been in the premier league, bar Houghton

[Romey 1878]

Yes very good point, even more to the point then that these managers cant be even compared to Moyes as they havent been in the premier league, bar Houghton

 

 

But Moyes had never managed in the Premiership before he came either and he's done alright hasn't he? And he couldn't be compared to some of our previous managers - Smith had been responsible for much of Rangers success, Kendall etc but he has managed to be better for us.

 

Sometimes people are just scared of change and will cling to anything to keep things the same.

 

I said a while I go I wouldn't support Moyes any more but I wouldn't say I wanted him gone either, and that's where I'm still at, but I can see the argument for change and the point about other manager's not having the experience or whatever to come here is a pretty hollow one IMO.

[StevO]

Bilbao and Dortmund should be any team (other than City) to copy for a plan.

Both of these sides have built teams up on very small budgets. Bilbao are currently playing great football and getting great results.

And the job Klopp has done at Dortmund is just crazy!

[Bailey]

Moyes is doing a good job, the job he's been doing for ten years, we're in the top half and in the FA Cup quarter finals with a mediocre squad and no budget. Rodgers and Lambert have got their teams promoted into the Premier League and had a good first season, they've done a good job for two years.

 

I could go on but I can't be arsed. My point is, had we replaced Moyes with one of these managers, who have all turned out to be shit, quite frankly, then we would have been calling for Kenwright's head even more than we are now.

 

How long is it until Rodgers and Lambert become just another Steve Coppell? People complain that Moyes hasn't won a trophy in his time at Everton, but then go on to claim that Rodgers and Lambert should replace him? On what basis? They have the same track record as the managers above, and they're completely unproven at managing a Premier League side for more than 3/4 of a season.

 

You make some good points there tbh, and I think managers should be judged on what they have done at several clubs/several seasons as opposed to just the one. Having said that, you only have to look at the way certain managers get their teams playing to know they will be successful in general.The likes of Holloway can guarentee a bit of fun, but they are never going to be consistent.

 

I will admit that I am very surprised by Bolton's problems this year but when you look at the way the team played last year compared to this, then they look a shadow of the team at times. They wont be relegated imo, but they should be doing better. Coyle looked to be the new version of Moyes just with a bit more attacking intent, but maybe he has already started going down the same path.

 

Rodgers & Lambert look a little bit different, especially the former. They are very organised defensively, but they know how to play and attack teams, and they have a home record we could only dream of. Im not totally convinced by Lambert as I think Norwich still play Championship football. They try their hardest, he will try and win games by making attacking subs etc and is probably a good man manager but they dont have the same discipline and they are much easier to score against than Swansea imo. It will be interesting to see how they get on next season.

[Steve_E]

Honestly I don't even care that much about a potential new manager's honours or anything like that. I just want someone with a different (/the right) philosophy. What had Louis van Gaal proven before he got the Ajax job? A mediocre playing career and a couple of years as an assistant. He went on to win 3 league championships, the Dutch Cup, the UEFA Cup, the Champions League... with the club. Rodgers, to me, seems to have the right philosophy.